US Dividend Miles - Award Booking Questions and General Discussion

[anat0l]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

it would seem logical to make reference to the applicable paid fare for compensation. alternatively, I guess with US airways (and most other airlines who have some sort of miles-for-sale program) you could calculate the cost of the award ticket based on the cost of the miles, which for USDM would be 3.5c per mile, or $5600 return in F to Europe. one way would come to $2800 and 75% of that would be $2100 (us dollars). the relevant calculation could be made if the compensation only applied to the sector Europe - bkk for example

And something like that methodology would be testable in court, assuming you were not happy with the compensation offered by the airline.

Using the USDM method you suggest is interesting if you put it to the responsible airline. Remember that in EU 261, the responsibility of paying compensation falls with the operating carrier.

... but still it is lucrative!

in regards to EU261 in general... a 4 hour 5 minute delay to my arrival caused by a cancellation would net €600 (aud850) for a flight to Asia or Australia... I consider that to be quite lucrative!

Call it semantics, but I loathe to use the word 'lucrative'. It's not like people play EU 261 like the stockmarket or as merchants!

If anything, for short disruptions, EU 261 helps a lot and I believe it should be a model copied across the world. For longer disruptions, it starts to become a bit of a problem (especially because obligations also cut out after a while, and disruptions of that length give carriers a bit more wiggle-out space).

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

under EU regs the pax must be offered accommodation on the next available flight to the final destination. even if it's a different airline.

unfortunately TG doesn't seem to have a good track record with being forthcoming with EU compensation... but if mom isn't home within 6 hours or whatever of the originally planned time then there is a nice big cheque coming your way.

as it's unlikely to be forthcoming by TG given what i've read before, the compensation can be applied for very simply on line.

It's unlikely from most airlines - even BA you have to make contact yourself and request it. If you don't specifically mention EU261 they will 99% of the time try to fob you off with some Avios. In my one dealing with it for 400 EUR p/pax on a LGW-NAP flight (delayed by 3hr15mins on a band 2 (ONLY JUST! )) because I specifically mentioned it in my comms, it was forthcoming with a cheque.

I'm not sure what examples you have on this, but everything I have read indicates there is no difference in the compensation. the calculation for a downgrade is a percentage of the applicable fare in operation at the time of the downgrade... which as has been pointed out, can be extremely lucrative for the pax.

75%

For a good guide on EU261 regs read Flight Delay Compensation: £515 for EU flights - Money Saving Expert and if you have a lot of time.. read the thread on FT The BA Compensation Thread [Beta]: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004 - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

If anything, for short disruptions, EU 261 helps a lot and I believe it should be a model copied across the world. For longer disruptions, it starts to become a bit of a problem (especially because obligations also cut out after a while, and disruptions of that length give carriers a bit more wiggle-out space).

Why is that? For anything over 4 hours, the full amount applies on long haul, and on anything over 3 hours on short haul, either 250 or 400 applies. There's no 'cap' on the amount of hours delayed. I don't see anything in the regulations saying the obligations cut out after a while, in fact it's quite the opposite!

 

[JohnK]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Well if you're not prepared to understand how the system works and how you can use it to help you, then I don't see any further point in attempting to offer any support at all.

Support? You have been trying to defend the airlines for their actions.

So an email is not notification in your view, interesting , just because you did not get one does of course not mean it was not sent.

That is not a very sensitive statement in a stressful situation.

Funny how I get home today and I have received an email for the re-issue of her itinerary yesterday but did not receive an email for the notification of cancelled flight.

Do you take any responsibility for putting your mother in this situation?

If you read my statement yesterday I did take responsibility for discovering this thread.

These cheap routings can be complicated and aren't suitable for everyone. A 'moron' could see that an in trip travel disruption would be more complicated to handle than a cash booking. And we all know that cough happens every now and then when travelling.

Good for you.

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Funny how I get home today and I have received an email for the re-issue of her itinerary yesterday but did not receive an email for the notification of cancelled flight.

Unfortunately as you've found out the hard way with USDM, e-mail seldom arrives. Perhaps this should be added as a sticky at the start of the thread... to check, re-check and check again the itinerary, especially the week leading up to the flights for things such as this.

 

[anat0l]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Why is that? For anything over 4 hours, the full amount applies on long haul, and on anything over 3 hours on short haul, either 250 or 400 applies. There's no 'cap' on the amount of hours delayed. I don't see anything in the regulations saying the obligations cut out after a while, in fact it's quite the opposite!

Well take a snowstorm that lasts for a while. No cash compensation payable there, since weather is not the airlines' fault - fine. But right to care I believe stops at around two weeks? I'm not sure, it's not in regulation, but I'm sure I've read that somewhere before.

Support? You have been trying to defend the airlines for their actions.

How? I - along with others - am trying to explain the system and the best way you can get resolution out of it, and this is called supporting the airlines?

If I go and shoot everyone at US Airways Dividend Miles for putting up such an amateur system as you say, is that the only way I can show otherwise?

What kind of vindictive witch hunt are you on?

Frankly, I'm thoroughly insulted. :evil:


What's the old saying - no good deed goes unpunished.... :evil: :evil: *leaves the room, slams the door, doorframe collapses, trods off indignantly*

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Well take a snowstorm that lasts for a while. No cash compensation payable there, since weather is not the airlines' fault - fine. But right to care I believe stops at around two weeks? I'm not sure, it's not in regulation, but I'm sure I've read that somewhere before.

Well, that's true - but a good TI policy should cover that That being said... surely some alternative arrangement could be found within 2 weeks you would think in any case!

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Are you going to tell us what happened next JohnK or are you going to continue ranting and raving?

 

[JohnK]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Unfortunately as you've found out the hard way with USDM, e-mail seldom arrives. Perhaps this should be added as a sticky at the start of the thread... to check, re-check and check again the itinerary, especially the week leading up to the flights for things such as this.

I wouldn't care if this happened to me but this happened to a 70 year old who does not travel often and has limited English speaking skills and does not know how to deal with airline staff.

I feel extremely guilty putting her in this situation.

 

[bcworld]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Gosh...the melodrama...I'm reminded of a post that was made on the QF MASAs thread.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

I wouldn't care if this happened to me but this happened to a 70 year old who does not travel often and has limited English speaking skills and does not know how to deal with airline staff.

I feel extremely guilty putting her in this situation.

Well then she best never travel again. Cancellations and delays can happen on any airline on any kind of ticket. Again, what has happened now, has she been rebooked?

 

[anat0l]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Are you going to tell us what happened next JohnK or are you going to continue ranting and raving?

There's a bit of crossposting between this thread and The Totally Off-Topic thread:

She called home quickly from FCO when I was leaving SIN last night. She would not know all the details of flights but apparently told dad that someone eventually helped her in FCO.

Looking at email of updated itinerary apparently spent ~8 hours in FCO airport yesterday then sent off to MUC for another ~3 hour transit. Then off to BKK overnight on TG and she should have just arrived in BKK now where she has another ~6 hour transit and should arrive in SYD early tomorrow morning.

I do not need to know details but I can tell she has been suffering. That is 2 overnight flights and 2 very long transits in airports for a 70 year old with health issues.

By the time she arrives home it will have been ~48 hours of travel. She cannot sleep on aircraft so she is going to be a mess when she gets home tomorrow.

Sending her business class was supposed to be a treat and it has turned into a nightmare and I am powerless to do anything about it.

 

[JohnK]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

Are you going to tell us what happened next JohnK or are you going to continue ranting and raving?

She called home quickly from FCO when I was leaving SIN last night. She would not know all the details of flights but apparently told dad that someone eventually helped her in FCO.

Looking at email of updated itinerary apparently spent ~8 hours in FCO airport yesterday then sent off to MUC for another ~3 hour transit. Then off to BKK overnight on TG and she should have just arrived in BKK now where she has another ~6 hour transit and should arrive in SYD early tomorrow morning.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

She called home quickly from FCO when I was leaving SIN last night. She would not know all the details of flights but apparently told dad that someone eventually helped her in FCO.

Looking at email of updated itinerary apparently spent ~8 hours in FCO airport yesterday then sent off to MUC for another ~3 hour transit. Then off to BKK overnight on TG and she should have just arrived in BKK now where she has another ~6 hour transit and should arrive in SYD early tomorrow morning.

So it was all dealt with, traumatic yes but this can happen on any carrier. It's not the fault of USDM. I'm afraid that she should not travel in future if it's all too much, as it could easily happen again. 70 years old really isn't all that old in my books either

 

[JohnK]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

So it was all dealt with, traumatic yes but this can happen on any carrier. It's not the fault of USDM. I'm afraid that she should not travel in future if it's all too much, as it could easily happen again. 70 years old really isn't all that old in my books either

It is traumatic but not the end of the world.

I think notification could have been handled better.

That would more than likely be mums last trip. She said to me the ~30 hours on the way over were too much for her even in business class. I would hate to think what she is going to be like tomorrow morning after ~48 of travel.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

And something like that methodology would be testable in court, assuming you were not happy with the compensation offered by the airline.

Using the USDM method you suggest is interesting if you put it to the responsible airline. Remember that in EU 261, the responsibility of paying compensation falls with the operating carrier.

agree... but as the compensation must be paid in cash, there would have to be some way for TG to compensate 75% of an award ticket issued by USDM. while I would hold out for 75% of the applicable fare (and IIRC someone received €3000 from them for an F->C downgrade) I would be arguing for at least 75% of the cost of the miles to purchase. that would be (actually IS) the ticket cost. obviously the pax would need to provide the calculations to TG for payment.

 

[Flashback]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

agree... but as the compensation must be paid in cash, there would have to be some way for TG to compensate 75% of an award ticket issued by USDM. while I would hold out for 75% of the applicable fare (and IIRC someone received €3000 from them for an F->C downgrade) I would be arguing for at least 75% of the cost of the miles to purchase. that would be (actually IS) the ticket cost. obviously the pax would need to provide the calculations to TG for payment.

I believe the calc works on base fare in cash regardless of how the ticket was paid for.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

I believe the calc works on base fare in cash regardless of how the ticket was paid for.

unfortunately that's the thing that hasn't been positively tested by a relevant European authority yet.

 

[travelislife]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

JohnK if I was you I would be thankful you found this thread and booked her business class! Imagine how much worse it would have been if she was in economy! I am sure in Business he was looked after well at all the airports and the Thais are great with the elderly. If in economy she would have been left to her own devices I wander foreign airports with no lounge an little assistance. Cancellations happen so I actually am not sure what your winge is about? You also haven't said when the cancellation occurred? If the flights were already in airport control it sounds like everything has happened e as it should, revenue ticket or award, no difference there. Your input on this forum is great but at times you get very dramatic very quickly and lose all reasoning which doesn't lend people to having any sympathy.

 

[Happy Trails]

Re: US Dividend Miles Buy/Gift Miles 100% bonus - Cheap way for F/J *A Awards

I'd like to think that my kids will be packing me off on business class trips when I turn 70, but I rather feel the situation will be reversed.