US Dividend Miles - post your SUCCESSFUL award bookings here.

[Shanye2233]

Since when did this program change to let's see who can break the most rules. USDM is a wonderful program and we all should try to stay within the guidelines of what the program offers. If they offer GUM for 40k in F that's fine but all this see who can get 3 stopovers and the most segments isn't in the spirit of the FFP .

The last thing you would want is a account audit or your ticket cancelled any day before departure. Just my thoughts

 

[burmans]

Since when did this program change to let's see who can break the most rules.

About the time you joined? Or maybe about the time you were thrown out and joined again?

 

[Shanye2233]

Its interesting when i break the rules that people yell and scream and complain about abusing the program a few years ago. But now it seems people cheer when they do the same. Bit late to the party i guess .

Jealous ? of course

 

[Foreigner]

Yeah I had a similar experience. My agent was competent enough to know that GUM was zones SWP without me even mentioning it yet let me get away with whatever itinerary I wanted. I got the distinct impression that she just didn't really care anymore.

Think about it - I believe the USDM call centre is in Charlotte. Staff will/have probably be given the opportunity to join the AA call centre at some stage (which Im guessing is in Dallas?) or look for another job - I assume they will centralise operations. Charlotte is a LONG way from Dallas!

Regardless, this is a fabulous time to be trying to book a ridiculous itinerary!

Reading between the lines, Charlotte NC is expected to remain a major base/hub for the merged/new AA...

2013 Year in Review: US Airways merger makes Charlotte a key site for American Airlines - Charlotte Business Journal

 

[Masonic Phantom]

Its interesting when i break the rules that people yell and scream and complain about abusing the program a few years ago. But now it seems people cheer when they do the same. Bit late to the party i guess .

Jealous ? of course

Come on!! You had your 15 min!!!

Happy New Year.

 

[Shanye2233]

Why dont we ask mel_travellr what she thinks about going all crazy to get to GUM. She seems to know best about the rules

 

[anat0l]

Regardless, this is a fabulous time to be trying to book a ridiculous itinerary!

GUM is a known exception to many rules. Most other itineraries broadly follow the rules and if they are flouted are either (a) due to a mistake on the agent - viz. not something you caused, and (b) not significantly large deviations from the rule.

Its interesting when i break the rules that people yell and scream and complain about abusing the program a few years ago. But now it seems people cheer when they do the same. Bit late to the party i guess .

Jealous ? of course

There's a fine line between breaking the rules and abuse. But we all know it's frivolous to explain to you why your examples have been considered abuse.


Certainly there is no point in adopting an attitude of "let's take them to the cleaners". Book something because you want to achieve a trip; not because you're trying to see how much you can poke the bear with a cattle prod before you finally take a wound from a swipe.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Its interesting when i break the rules that people yell and scream and complain about abusing the program a few years ago. But now it seems people cheer when they do the same. Bit late to the party i guess .

Jealous ? of course

there is a difference, and a line between using the program within its limits, and breaking the rules.

GUM for 30k/40k is fine. If you include a stopover and the agent offers it for 30k/40K (ie no difference in price) that's borderline, but hey, it's not really costing USDM any more as you are still taking x number of flights.

But to ring repeatedly with the sole purpose of breaking the rules and get a stopover is fraudulent. And if your account is audited and the ticket cancelled then that's the risk that they take.

There is a difference between the agent making a mistake and intentionally setting out to force the agent into a mistake. That applies to anyone doing that routing. They know the rules and breaking them is asking for something to which they are not entitled.

The other area which some people have bragged about is USDM clearly charging the wrong amount of miles, or not charging the miles at all. If you know an F ticket to Europe is 150K, taking that ticket for 45K (or whatever) is theft. The proper thing to do is to notify the airline. Why would you want to steal 100K from the airline? The tickets are already costing little more than an economy ticket. This has happened on two occasions I know about: a friend redeamed a SWP-Asia and her account was credited with 90K instead of debited, and my sister redeemed two tickets to Europe that weren't debited. both times they rang and USDM corrected the mistake.

Why steal?

edited to add: 'snap with anat0l'!!

 

[Shanye2233]

there is a difference, and a line between using the program within its limits, and breaking the rules.

GUM for 30k/40k is fine. If you include a stopover and the agent offers it for 30k/40K (ie no difference in price) that's borderline, but hey, it's not really costing USDM any more as you are still taking x number of flights.

But to ring repeatedly with the sole purpose of breaking the rules and get a stopover is fraudulent. And if your account is audited and the ticket cancelled then that's the risk that they take.

There is a difference between the agent making a mistake and intentionally setting out to force the agent into a mistake. That applies to anyone doing that routing. They know the rules and breaking them is asking for something to which they are not entitled.

The other area which some people have bragged about is USDM clearly charging the wrong amount of miles, or not charging the miles at all. If you know an F ticket to Europe is 150K, taking that ticket for 45K (or whatever) is theft. The proper thing to do is to notify the airline. Why would you want to steal 100K from the airline? The tickets are already costing little more than an economy ticket. This has happened on two occasions I know about: a friend redeamed a SWP-Asia and her account was credited with 90K instead of debited, and my sister redeemed two tickets to Europe that weren't debited. both times they rang and USDM corrected the mistake.

Why steal?

edited to add: 'snap with anat0l'!!

So if i book a ticket and the agent makes a mistake and tells me its 45k for sydney to europe in F and i accept that fraudulent. But if the agent makes a mistake and books a crazy routing to GUM for the correct miles then thats ok. I got it now i was worried that there was different playing rules for me

 

[smit0847]

And Shayne most of the members on this forum help each other to create an online community (such as suggestions like 'aim for this route as that features the best product' etc) rather than just demanding help, making-up vastly contradictory stories, giving nothing in return and taking, taking and taking. If we wanted to scam the system as much as you do we would never tell anyone what we had managed to achieve as that might limit our chances of doing it again. Instead we share, educate, encourage and assist.

You've never understood the purpose of this website and I don't think you ever will. Perhaps you would do better as a blogger?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So if i book a ticket and the agent makes a mistake and tells me its 45k for sydney to europe in F and i accept that fraudulent. But if the agent makes a mistake and books a crazy routing to GUM for the correct miles then thats ok. I got it now i was worried that there was different playing rules for me

I accept your point. but GUM is the exception rather then the rule. you cannot get to gum other than via Asia, and hkg is the closest flight to GUM (and even to get to there you have to transit in SIN or something). stopping off in Hong Kong is outside the rules, but as I mentioned, you're there anyway... kind of...

 

[anat0l]

I accept your point. but GUM is the exception rather then the rule. you cannot get to gum other than via Asia, and hkg is the closest flight to GUM (and even to get to there you have to transit in SIN or something). stopping off in Hong Kong is outside the rules, but as I mentioned, you're there anyway... kind of...

Well, strictly speaking you could be routed SYD-AKL-CNS-GUM....

I thought the Asia thing was more a "concession", viz. like availability on Transpacific *A is quite rare, US DM agents have been more relaxed about letting people route via Asia even though it starts to impinge on MPM (not a strict rule).

 

[burmans]

GUM is a known exception to many rules.

While some have streched the rule with multiple stopovers etc. it's worth point out that the travelling to GUM itself is not breaking any rules, its just a feature of the US program that both GUM and OZ are both regarded as SWP.

And as Mel_Traveller has pointed out going by Asia is the only way to achieve it. Somewhat different than going out of your way to break rules just to show us all how important you are (in your own mind).

 

[Foreigner]

While some have streched the rule with multiple stopovers etc. it's worth point out that the travelling to GUM itself is not breaking any rules, its just a feature of the US program that both GUM and OZ are both regarded as SWP.

And as Mel_Traveller has pointed out going by Asia is the only way to achieve it. Somewhat different than going out of your way to break rules just to show us all how important you are (in your own mind).

Does any other *A programs show Guam in South Pacific/Australasia?

 

[anat0l]

While some have streched the rule with multiple stopovers etc. it's worth point out that the travelling to GUM itself is not breaking any rules, its just a feature of the US program that both GUM and OZ are both regarded as SWP.

And as Mel_Traveller has pointed out going by Asia is the only way to achieve it. Somewhat different than going out of your way to break rules just to show us all how important you are (in your own mind).

Once again, I refer you to my reply above.

It's esoteric for sure, but you can travel to GUM intrazone. It's not awfully practical and the availability must be awful as well, but all in all I'm thinking that allowing travel via Asia without charging the Asia zone rate is more a concession (or otherwise exception) than a neat feature of US DM (otherwise, the pundits would've added it as a routing note in the rules, I guess.... )

 

[Alanslegal]

Fun read for a Friday afternoon, I have never 'liked' so many posts in such a short period of time.

 

[Foreigner]

We need to focus on the substance of the thread you started many moons ago.

 

[burmans]

Once again, I refer you to my reply above.

It's esoteric for sure, but you can travel to GUM intrazone. It's not awfully practical and the availability must be awful as well, but all in all I'm thinking that allowing travel via Asia without charging the Asia zone rate is more a concession (or otherwise exception) than a neat feature of US DM (otherwise, the pundits would've added it as a routing note in the rules, I guess.... )

Yes I know its intrazone but its no shorter, probably over MPM and frankly somewhat irrelevant, as far as I know most US Air agents don't actually question OZ to GUM as a valid redemption via Asia, the only question I have ever heard raised is in relation to stopovers. If general US agent view is this is all right by the rules, I'm not sure why anyone would insist it isnt aside from pedantry.

If you asked a US agent to get you to GUM, I'm pretty confident they would actually suggest a route via Asia without any suggestion that is invalid.

Does any other *A programs show Guam in South Pacific/Australasia?

Yes, another does have it in Oceania I believe.

 

[anat0l]

Yes I know its intrazone but its no shorter, probably over MPM and frankly somewhat irrelevant, as far as I know most US Air agents don't actually question OZ to GUM as a valid redemption via Asia, the only question I have ever heard raised is in relation to stopovers. If general US agent view is this is all right by the rules, I'm not sure why anyone would insist it isnt aside from pedantry.

If you asked a US agent to get you to GUM, I'm pretty confident they would actually suggest a route via Asia without any suggestion that is invalid.

Which is all fine. US agents can suggest whatever they want, in contravention of the rules as they want, as they are the decision makers at the end of the day. If it is ticketed, for almost all intents and purposes it is "legal" (even if against the rules).

All I'm saying is that the GUM exception is not necessarily due to via-Asia being the only way getting to GUM, as it is possible to do so intrazone. My theory is that it's similar to why itineraries for Australia to North America are allowed via Asia even when they exceed MPM - realising the limited routing and availability issues, agents seem to have accommodated alternatives in this way - "made a concession" - and hence here we are.

Just for shiggles, the 25M MPM on UA on SYD-GUM is 8231 miles. SYD-AKL-CNS-GUM is 5681 miles. Well inside the MPM. But MPM is not necessarily binding as a rule, as we've found out.

 

[burmans]

Which is all fine. US agents can suggest whatever they want, in contravention of the rules as they want, as they are the decision makers at the end of the day. If it is ticketed, for almost all intents and purposes it is "legal" (even if against the rules).

All I'm saying is that the GUM exception is not necessarily due to via-Asia being the only way getting to GUM, as it is possible to do so intrazone. My theory is that it's similar to why itineraries for Australia to North America are allowed via Asia even when they exceed MPM - realising the limited routing and availability issues, agents seem to have accommodated alternatives in this way - "made a concession" - and hence here we are.

Just for shiggles, the 25M MPM on UA on SYD-GUM is 8231 miles. SYD-AKL-CNS-GUM is 5681 miles. Well inside the MPM. But MPM is not necessarily binding as a rule, as we've found out.

Well I'm still struggling to find the rule that say SWP-SWP must be intrazone?

[h=2]Booking rules and restrictions[/h]

• You must have enough miles in your account before you make an award reservation.
• Open returns and waitlisting for award travel are not permitted.
• Open jaw travel (flying to one city and returning from another) is not permitted when an en route stopover is included in the award itinerary. The distance between the 2 open jaw cities cannot exceed the distance of the outbound or return trip. Itinerary restrictions may apply.
• Award levels are subject to change until the award ticket is issued.
• Award travel is permitted when the distance in one direction does not exceed the maximum mileage allowed between the origin and destination. Certain itineraries are subject to mileage restrictions. Travel from North America to Europe is not allowed via Asia, and travel between Europe and Japan/North Asia/South Asia/Australia/New Zealand is not permitted via North America.
• Award travel must be completed one year from the original date of ticket issue.