Velocity points now worthless in 2023 (extreme stealth devaluation)

[Happy Dude]

@mingzie, I think this recent and sudden availability calls for a post about the stealthy revaluation of VFF points and how worthwhile Velocity is?

 

[mingzie]

@mingzie, I think this recent and sudden availability calls for a post about the stealthy revaluation of VFF points and how worthwhile Velocity is?

No, because I still can't reliably book my dripfed velocity flights for my family of 4 regardless of date. On the other hand I've mentioned like 6 times in this thread of any positive changes as they happen, so I'm not denying or gaslighting anyone. I was even the first to confirm that the J domestic limit has been increased from 1 to 2

I am also a fan of velocity as you guys seem to be. Not sure why I'd be collecting points if I hated the program. If all three issues are resolved then yes, I will definitely go and make that post or even admit they've all been fixed and stop posting in this thread. If it's still devalued then I wouldn't. My current trip is to GC. If anyone has any luck or datapoints about being able to book more than 2 people (and whether more return to the pool), it would be highly appreciated. I'll be booking myself anyway and experimenting in about a week

Blind fanboying and cheerleading for multimillion dollar corporations is stupid and pointless, lol. I love Hilton but will be honest if any bad changes are made to the program. The same with Velocity. Happily accepting devaluations because of a blind and weird obsession with a brand just makes it easier for them to keep doing it. Reminds me of times like how Marriott was hard landing all of us despite promises they wouldn't, and then a whole bunch of people simping for them. Luckily, there were enough people with reason that made them honour the status extensions / soft landings.

You personally might not care now as it might not affect your current trips (a good character imo is someone who is empathetic even if they weren't personally affected). But the next time you want 3 seats in J you might.

 

[straitman]

No, because I still can't reliably book my dripfed velocity flights for my family of 4 regardless of date. On the other hand I've mentioned like 6 times in this thread of any positive changes as they happen, so I'm not denying or gaslighting anyone. I was even the first to confirm that the J domestic limit has been increased from 1 to 2

I am also a fan of velocity as you guys seem to be. Not sure why I'd be collecting points if I hated the program. If all three issues are resolved then yes, I will definitely go and make that post or even admit they've all been fixed and stop posting in this thread. If it's still devalued then I wouldn't. My current trip is to GC. If anyone has any luck or datapoints about being able to book more than 2 people (and whether more return to the pool), it would be highly appreciated. I'll be booking myself anyway and experimenting in about a week

Blind fanboying and cheerleading for multimillion dollar corporations is stupid and pointless, lol. I love Hilton but will be honest if any bad changes are made to the program. The same with Velocity. Happily accepting devaluations because of a blind and weird obsession with a brand just makes it easier for them to keep doing it. Reminds me of times like how Marriott was hard landing all of us despite promises they wouldn't, and then a whole bunch of people simping for them. Luckily, there were enough people with reason that made them honour the status extensions / soft landings.

You personally might not care now as it might not affect your current trips (a good character imo is someone who is empathetic even if they weren't personally affected). But the next time you want 3 seats in J you might.

I have just looked up some random dates of SYD - SIN (SQ) and PER - SYD (VA) and I can get 3 and 4 award seats in J on flights on both.

Looking at MEL - OOL 3 seats are available but not 4 seats which I firmly believe is a function of availability. ie expecting 4 of 8 seats as an award on a busy route is probably unrealistic.

I was even the first to confirm that the J domestic limit has been increased from 1 to 2

Can you authenticate where you got this from?

 

[mingzie]

I have just looked up some random dates of SYD - SIN (SQ) and PER - SYD (VA) and I can get 3 and 4 award seats in J on flights on both.

Looking at MEL - OOL 3 seats are available but not 4 seats which I firmly believe is a function of availability. ie expecting 4 of 8 seats as an award on a busy route is probably unrealistic.


Can you authenticate where you got this from?

There is another thread at the top of AFF talking about the dripfeed. Are you sure that these flights are available for the 15,500 standard rate (and not a ridiculously marked up price like 50-100k points a ticket?). I should clarify that we are talking about availability of standard rate as per redemption / miles table, rather than forced availability but 50-100k points per ticket, so apologies for not clarifying there. I think that was the initial issue but now it's limited bucketing of the lowest revenue fares (that seems to refresh and re-enter the pool)

For the single seat issue it was VA drip feeding J reward seats?

I actually noticed the issue before even seeing this thread. And this thread and others experiences confirmed it. I posted in that thread that it had increased to 2 (you can check that you can get the standard 15,500 rate if booking 2). I'm hoping that the rest of the 15,500 rates are dripfed. I've been able to book 4 in past at 15,500 with no issues, so I am simply speaking of what was possible in the not so distant past

For Syd - sin, is it the 67,000 rate for J or is it something ridiculous? Thanks. If it's the 67,000 rate then that's great news

I believe for most dates you can book in 2s for 15,500, and the other seats are refilled at lowest price bucket (at least that's my hope- I will be trying this in a few days)

Also, that seems to be a changed datapoint. About a week ago I could only see "only 1 seat left" and "only 2 seats left" (just like the others were mentioning). Now it's available but still no ability to get 3 seats in the lowest bucket.

 

[Kimster]

[Redacted. Please stick to the topic. ie discuss the topic not the other posters]


Within 1 minute, choosing a random date later in the year, I found for two pax:

View attachment 321948

Just for your information the Premium Award books into premium economy not into J. Did the same thing last week for the missus and when the ticket was issued, it was booked into PE - so had to cancel and forfeited 7500 points. You'd want Business Reward for J.

 

[GrahamBRI]

My approach to valuation of frequent flyer points is not based on any program opportunity but based on a nominal cash value. I then look at how I can maximise what I can extract in terms of value from the multitude of programs I have access to, to achieve my flight goal. Over my 30 years of extracting value out of these programs, I have consistently seen variability in sweet spots across all programs, but as a whole, the extra value I have extracted has remained constant. While I have not experienced the specific decline in availability that the OP has posted, I for one am still getting the same value out of VA that I always have. My recent sweet spot for VA has been QR and yes we are seeing some movement in that space right at the moment, but overall as a program, the value I have extracted and continue to extract is about the same – the only thing that has changed for me is which program I am using for which destination – that always changes. So for me, no program devaluation, just the annual cycle of opportunity shifts.

 

[jakeseven7]

. My recent sweet spot for VA has been QR and yes we are seeing some movement in that space right at the moment,

There was a thread on FT (so grain of salt) saying after the initial ‘batch’ release of awards QR have really cut back. Like I said FT so…

 

[jase05]

There was a thread on FT (so grain of salt) saying after the initial ‘batch’ release of awards QR have really cut back. Like I said FT so…

Ex Australia seems tight still but good F availability to/from PER and some J ex ADL.
Have seen plenty of availability in J and F ex Asia and Europe though over the last few weeks

 

[Happy Dude]

Just for your information the Premium Award books into premium economy not into J. Did the same thing last week for the missus and when the ticket was issued, it was booked into PE - so had to cancel and forfeited 7500 points. You'd want Business Reward for J.

Of course you are correct - I'd taken the shot of the wrong flight in haste. There are J and PE rewards available on SQ228 that day too. Plenty of availability it seems.

 

[Happy Dude]

My current trip is to GC. If anyone has any luck or datapoints about being able to book more than 2 people (and whether more return to the pool), it would be highly appreciated. I'll be booking myself anyway and experimenting in about a week

As the risk of being a gaslighter, I've already given you a recent example of not being able to find two revenue seats on that route and that was before the so called stealthy massive devaluation and dripfeeding issues that you're conveniently conflating. Just because you've done it as rewards in the past but can't now doesn't mean either of those issues are real. I'd say you've been very lucky in the past and getting more than two J reward seats on the same flight is unrealistic to expect every time, on any airline.

 

[mingzie]

As the risk of being a gaslighter, I've already given you a recent example of not being able to find two revenue seats on that route and that was before the so called stealthy massive devaluation and dripfeeding issues that you're conveniently conflating. Just because you've done it as rewards in the past but can't now doesn't mean either of those issues are real. I'd say you've been very lucky in the past and getting more than two J reward seats on the same flight is unrealistic to expect every time, on any airline

Ok, I didn't realise I've been lucky for over 10 years until just two weeks ago. I must be a 50 time lottery ticket winner!

And no, that is not my expectation whatsoever. My expectation is there would be AT least one flight with more than 2 J seats for ANY flight on ANY domestic J route at the standard reward rate at ANY time in the next 2 years. This is with flights that have 8 out of 8 seats fully free. Actually, that's not even my expectation; it's my observation that things have changed

Heck, even check Syd to Mel or any other domestic routes. I'll give you even ability to look one year in advance. That is wildly different from the claim you say I'm making that I expect more than 2 seats at ANY time for that single route. I think that is a huge strawman you are making on my side. An expectation is also very different from an observation in changes. I don't expect loyalty programs to do anything, I just like to point it out when they do.

 

[straitman]

There is another thread at the top of AFF talking about the dripfeed. Are you sure that these flights are available for the 15,500 standard rate (and not a ridiculously marked up price like 50-100k points a ticket?). I should clarify that we are talking about availability of standard rate as per redemption / miles table, rather than forced availability but 50-100k points per ticket, so apologies for not clarifying there. I think that was the initial issue but now it's limited bucketing of the lowest revenue fares (that seems to refresh and re-enter the pool)

These were available at award rates. Not at $ equivalent rates.

 

[Bagpuss]

I have just looked up some random dates of SYD - SIN (SQ) and PER - SYD (VA) and I can get 3 and 4 award seats in J on flights on both.

I highly doubt you can get 3 let alone 4 business reward flights on a single flight PER - SYD at all.

Likely you will find 1 per flight or none.

 

[straitman]

I highly doubt you can get 3 let alone 4 business reward flights on a single flight PER - SYD at all.

Likely you will find 1 per flight or none.

Maybe my experience is unusual however I picked a random day and that’s what I got.

 

[Bagpuss]

Maybe my experience is unusual however I picked a random day and that’s what I got.

A screenshot would be good.

 

[straitman]

It was a totally random day. IF/when I find another I will post it though I won't be spending a lot of time chasing it.

 

[Bagpuss]

It was a totally random day. IF/when I find another I will post it though I won't be spending a lot of time chasing it.

Suspect you may have been thrown on the way the page displays especially when you see "Rewards seats available" as a tag line as this means they are available in either economy or business class.

Here's a great example how it can be misinterpreted.

FYI, I'm only raising this as I think with the display you could almost have a case of it being misleading, though it technically isn't.

 

[elisabethk]

Hello all,

Looks like velocity points are almost worthless now and have had a massive stealth devaluation. There is almost zero award availability on almost all routes and there is single seat dripfeeding (only one seat available on all routes)

This is a MASSIVE devaluation compared to even last year.

Looks like this is a cheeky stealth change that has made this program utterly worthless :/

Can't believe I'm saying this but I'm actually finding use for my Qantas points, and I used to think Qantas was a joke.

What happened Virgin?

I can't find single international J seat to SIN for ANY date despite massive KF availability.

I can't even book a domestic flight in J for me and my partner.

Anyone noticed and outraged about this? This is a very recent stealth devaluation.



How the heck did we go from 65k J SQ redemptions to only Premium Economy available for more?

If this is a permanent change, I now regret not spending and collecting all of these velocity points.

The value has dropped in half!!

OMG I changed my Qantas fr fl points with Amex into Velocity points, because of very bad experiences with Qantas, kicked off, customer service and more. Qantas still have hardly any flights available either and ask ridiculous amount of points , so now we get the same problem with Velocity? Must say so far my experience with customer service Velocity is much better.

 

[Bagpuss]

OMG I changed my Qantas fr fl points with Amex into Velocity points, because of very bad experiences with Qantas, kicked off, customer service and more. Qantas still have hardly any flights available either and ask ridiculous amount of points , so now we get the same problem with Velocity? Must say so far my experience with customer service Velocity is much better.

There's no concerns about getting economy rewards flights. The issue is the low inventory for business class flights. If you're a solo passenger you're not going to be overly affected.

 

[jase05]

OMG I changed my Qantas fr fl points with Amex into Velocity points, because of very bad experiences with Qantas, kicked off, customer service and more. Qantas still have hardly any flights available either and ask ridiculous amount of points , so now we get the same problem with Velocity? Must say so far my experience with customer service Velocity is much better.

It depends on your individual scenario. Plenty of ways to use VA points ex Asia and even Europe with QR or EY but yes award availability to/from Australia has dried up although often decent availability on SQ from ADL and on QR ex PER