Velocity points now worthless in 2023 (extreme stealth devaluation)

[SYD]

Gotta love an egocentric who thinks the airlines are monitoring your posts!

Aren’t they?

 

[Kimster]

VA have been 'tampering' with their own website/reward seat yield?



Sorta like Qantas and Qatar

VA have been 'tampering' with their own website/reward seat yield?



Sorta like Qantas and Qatar

I"d like to add to this. The poster is right that he has brought up issues around J reward availability with Velocity. There is no denying that the J (both domestic and international) has dried up (Y available though). I've been on on the hunt for ONE J reward from Mel-SIN during Dec 23( Yes I know peak) for close to 5 weeks with no luck.

After this post, the J redemptions have opened up both Mel-Sin and Adl-Sin during Dec 23 on SQ but showing like 600,000 points. Somewhat like what qantas classic vs normal redemption with Qantas. Dont think it was ever the case with Velocity redemption ever (i might be wrong). Everyone understands people have been warehousing points - but in all practical sense, finding J awards (with such an extensive network domestically and reasonable overseas partners) has been very very sparse to say the least. So absolutely right that things are being held from source. (Just a thought - May be Bain building up their books and not buying seats from SQ before the IPO to show better books????)

 

[RooFlyer]

. So absolutely right that things are being held from source. (Just a thought - May be Bain building up their books and not buying seats from SQ before the IPO to show better books????)

Could be - but equally, could be just one of those availability/IT glitches that seem to happen to many airlines from time to time and/or SQ withholding seats from VA, another inter-airline thing that unfortunate happens only to regularly.

 

[burmans]

Could be - but equally, could be just one of those availability/IT glitches that seem to happen to many airlines from time to time and/or SQ withholding seats from VA, another inter-airline thing that unfortunate happens only to regularly.

Agree, we seem to have had a lot of claims of withholding seats on partner airlines recently on SQ but also notably Qatar. Many speculate but who really knows aside from the airlines themselves.

 

[burmans]

Aren’t they?

In more normal times I’d give credence to this but more recently all airlines aren’t anywhere near on top of their reactive complaint management (e.g. call centres etc.) to free up bodies to do this proactive stuff. I’m sure they each have a long list of issues which still need to be dealt with before going looking proactively for more work!

 

[SYD]

In more normal times I’d give credence to this but more recently all airlines aren’t anywhere near on top of their reactive complaint management (e.g. call centres etc.) to free up bodies to do this proactive stuff. I’m sure they each have a long list of issues which still need to be dealt with before going looking proactively for more work!

It was a joke for the more paranoid…

But we did have from time to time official reps here but like most things in travel, they were “enhanced”….

 

[mingzie]

I don't think Velocity are monitoring my posts. Though I do think at least one velocity rep is monitoring "our" posts (this issue was raised over a week ago by AFF). For example Hilton, Marriott and Starwood reps. AFF isn't exactly a small unknown forum by any means.

The domestic dripfeed was in place a week ago (actually, it was only posted about a week ago, but seems to have been the case since end Jan) and only changed a couple hours after the post. But yeah I get with these forums everyone just wants to rib as it makes them feel better

Everyone keeps saying IT issues but probably have never worked in IT. How likely do you think that seats were limited to one seat and then suddenly globally changed to 2? (With the original being 4) Your definition of an IT bug is absurd, because that is exactly what a configuration change would do. It is nothing like the pattern of an IT issue (these changes are occurring "perfectly" via config changes). You should really know the difference between paranoia / conspiracy and fact. Anyone who is noticing the same thing keeps getting told "IT issue" (as if a multimillion dollar corporate entity needs defending or simping for)

You will also be pleased to know there are the same data points on flyertalk at the same time. With the OP being told "availability!", "IT issues!", ",Paranoia/inexperience". So with someone from the US also noticing the same thing, as well as 6 other AFFers, I guess we have even more paranoid conspiracy theorists to add to the pile (or maybe you're just wrong and we are noticing correctly)

Has Virgin stopped issuing Business Reward seats? - FlyerTalk Forums

Virgin Australia | Velocity - Has Virgin stopped issuing Business Reward seats? - In July this year my wife and I are travelling to London from Sydney. Usually I would book my Domestic flights from Mackay on Velocity points flying Business Class but when I attempted to, I found that I could not...

www.flyertalk.com

Another Aussie datapoint from flyertalk. The flights in question he is talking about have fully free seats. This coincides with the first AFF mention as well as when I started noticing it

 

[mingzie]

In more normal times I’d give credence to this but more recently all airlines aren’t anywhere near on top of their reactive complaint management (e.g. call centres etc.) to free up bodies to do this proactive stuff. I’m sure they each have a long list of issues which still need to be dealt with before going looking proactively for more work!

Oh please! This reminds me of the COVID excuse airlines are still using for everything. It is really not an excuse anymore. There are no restrictions and things have picked up full steam. I've also been able to contact call centers with little wait. You can no longer blame COVID for poor service or not giving good food. It comes off as a complete joke this far out of the restrictions. We don't need AFF members giving them this xx_xx_ out either.

 

[burmans]

It was a joke for the more paranoid…

But we did have from time to time official reps here but like most things in travel, they were “enhanced”….

Yes I remember but clearly the airline in question didn’t think it was worth the money, and their customer support (and no. of issues) has gone south since then.

It’s quite possible they may occasionally browse the forum but I frankly think this is not a priority area for them.

 

[burmans]

Oh please! This reminds me of the COVID excuse airlines are still using for everything. It is really not an excuse anymore. There are no restrictions and things have picked up full steam. I've also been able to contact call centers with little wait. You can no longer blame COVID for coughty service or not giving good food. It comes off as a complete joke this far out of the restrictions. We don't need AFF members giving them this coughty out either.

I’m not excusing anyone, just noting that’s how it is. Just browsing the various Facebook groups it’s clear there are still plenty of issues out there even if it’s also clearly slowly getting better, while I tend to agree it shouldn’t be happening there is plenty of evidence it still is. Excuses, I’ll leave that to the airlines.

 

[GDale]

Also possible that this is a supply/demand experiment they're running - an economist's dream - i.e. if we were to only release 1 business reward seat, what happens to the demand for paid J seats and load factors, what happens if 1 reward seat becomes 2, etc. Obviously the ideal would be to maximise paid seats occupied, though they'd need to also balance that against disengagement from the VFF program.

Purely speculation of course, only they know what they've been up to!

 

[Vic]

Interesting thread...
I note the OP has not address the obvious solution - just transfer to points to SQ if there is plenty of availability over there.
I'm not up to date on the rules for transfer, but last time I looked into it, there was a 15% fee.

then there is the meaning of devaluation. The award doesn't cost more, you just can't find any - for whatever reason. That's not a devaulation.

 

[jase05]

Interesting thread...
I note the OP has not address the obvious solution - just transfer to points to SQ if there is plenty of availability over there.
I'm not up to date on the rules for transfer, but last time I looked into it, there was a 15% fee.

then there is the meaning of devaluation. The award doesn't cost more, you just can't find any - for whatever reason. That's not a devaulation.

You have forgotten the little part of the exchange rate being 1.55 to 1

 

[burmans]

You have forgotten the little part of the exchange rate being 1.55 to 1

Well to be pedantic that makes them worth less, not worthless (yes, I know the origins are the same but they clearly have different meanings in common everyday English usage).

 

[mingzie]

I’m not excusing anyone, just noting that’s how it is. Just browsing the various Facebook groups it’s clear there are still plenty of issues out there even if it’s also clearly slowly getting better, while I tend to agree it shouldn’t be happening there is plenty of evidence it still is. Excuses, I’ll leave that to the airlines.

yes, please do leave them to the airlines. an anecdotal perception of Facebook complaints means nothing (and have existed in large numbers since the dawn of time).. I mean you're still excusing them saying things are slowly picking up.. hopefully they pay you well to keep defending them

I'll make sure to remember next time I eat my sausage roll on the J Qantas plane that they're still "recovering from the COVID era".

 

[mingzie]

Interesting thread...
I note the OP has not address the obvious solution - just transfer to points to SQ if there is plenty of availability over there.
I'm not up to date on the rules for transfer, but last time I looked into it, there was a 15% fee.

then there is the meaning of devaluation. The award doesn't cost more, you just can't find any - for whatever reason. That's not a devaulation.

I'm not sure which school taught you guys English, but devaluation literally just means they have less value. Less value does not have to come from the redemption rate, but can also mean redemption is not possible, is now harder (due to specific changes that are not a result of natural demand), or a host of other causes. For example, you buy a $100 gift card that you can use at Woolworths. All of a sudden Woolworths has decided it doesn't work on Tuesdays. That is a devaluation to the gift card, regardless of the fact you can still use it to buy $100 in groceries. Value doesn't even have to be directly monetary in nature..

Making things harder to use, reducing the global pool of rewards, only allowing you to book one seat at a time, or even changing the cancellation terms are all devaluations

Based on your logic they could remove the entire reward pool and leave one award for the same current price and that wouldn't be a devaluation. Geez... Lol

KF is 1.55 : 1. Also let's say a SIN flight was 65k velocity and KF has it as 65 too. That's like 1.5x more expensive lol if I go your method. I am also extremely well versed in KF and velocity redemptions so I am no newbie to this transfer avenue or the redemption costs. KF fetches a 1.5x premium over Velocity whilst having almost the same redemption points cost to almost all SQ routes in J. I've flown this route 8 times a year and about 50 times in total, all redemptions. I don't need to be taught about redemption value as a select few of you seem to be reiterating but it appears a few of you do (not all of you; most are great here, but the people who are spamming me to "just transfer to KF" clearly aren't very focused on value lol

 

[Vic]

You have forgotten the little part of the exchange rate being 1.55 to 1

Like I said, I haven't looked into the exchange rate since there was a 15% penalty.

 

[mingzie]

Like I said, I haven't looked into the exchange rate since there was a 15% penalty.

I see, fair enough

 

[Vic]

I'm not sure which school taught you guys English, but devaluation literally just means they have less value. Less value does not have to come from the redemption rate, but can also mean redemption is not possible,

Hmm, the value hasn't changed. The cost is the same. you just can't find any awards on singapore.
There are too elements, availability and value. Lack of availability is not devaluation...
If the problem is availability with VA where there are award available with SQ, one solution is to transfer thereby letting you get the award seat.

Pretty happy with my understanding of english... hence why I mentioned it.

BTW, including me I've seen two different people raise the idea of transferring points, out of 58 posts. do we need to look into the english language meaning of spam? lol
or even the meaning of "worthless" for that matter...

 

[mingzie]

Hmm, the value hasn't changed. The cost is the same. you just can't find any awards on singapore.
There are too elements, availability and value. Lack of availability is not devaluation...
If the problem is availability with VA where there are award available with SQ, one solution is to transfer thereby letting you get the award seat.

Pretty happy with my understanding of english... hence why I mentioned it.

BTW, including me I've seen two different people raise the idea of transferring points, out of 58 posts. do we need to look into the english language meaning of spam? lol
or even the meaning of "worthless" for that matter...

Lack of availability is a devaluation if the availability was changed on purpose. The fact you can't see that is so ridiculous it hurts, lol. If Hilton suddenly decides to make standard rooms only limited to 1 standard room points redemption per date out of 8 rooms, that is a devaluation. If people simply booked out all 7 standard rooms and there is one left, that is NOT a devaluation.

In velocity's case it is the former, not the latter. Again, I would urge you to look up the definition of devaluation, as well as the definition of value, as your understanding of what a devaluation is, is xx_xx_. Devaluation is used many times in hotel program context regarding factors that aren't even related to points, such as suite upgrades or reward pool availability. It doesn't have to relate directly to the points cost of a room or flight :/