Virgin and Velocity websites - enough is enough

Status
Not open for further replies.
How long is it supposed to take to convert a system. If they have chosen to no longer be a LCC, surely they should have had their **** together before announcing the changes, rather than run with so many annoying bugs and issues. This whole " They are changing into a different airline" cough is just a cover for their shortcomings, and inaptitude. Seriously, does anyone truly believe it takes two years or more to change their systems? they either A. dont want to, or B. Dont have the money or C they have decided to continue to push the limits and see how much cough their "Guests" will take before they whinge and moan.
On The website matter, the only thing that frustrates me is constantly logging in to velocity when booking. It is two different systems right, Velocity and the VA site?
Im not really that computer literate.

I agree the VA site is clunky but I muddle through it and look forward to it being fixed in line with their BOH IT projects...

Keep on mind that as a LCC their website was very bare bones and as they try and move up market they have been doing bolt ins instead of a thorough revamp. I expect the new site once the BOH system is improved will be a huge improvement.

My only consistent bug bear is that my international bookings linked to my Velocity account never ever appear.... Annoying but not life critical.... DJ can't explain it either.
Seat selection is a bit clunky too.
 
How long is it supposed to take to convert a system. If they have chosen to no longer be a LCC, surely they should have had their **** together before announcing the changes, rather than run with so many annoying bugs and issues. This whole " They are changing into a different airline" cough is just a cover for their shortcomings, and inaptitude. Seriously, does anyone truly believe it takes two years or more to change their systems? they either A. dont want to, or B. Dont have the money or C they have decided to continue to push the limits and see how much cough their "Guests" will take before they whinge and moan.
On The website matter, the only thing that frustrates me is constantly logging in to velocity when booking. It is two different systems right, Velocity and the VA site?
Im not really that computer literate.
How long? Years. And that's being generous. Changing things like this is no easy task. It's a living breathing thing a GDS, and then the fact they launched VA on Amadeus and have to combine that with DJ, it's a nightmare.

Unfortunately, this is par for the course. If you can find a way of doing this quickly, you'll be a squillionaire ;)
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, this is par for the course. If you can find a way of doing this quickly, you'll be a squillionaire ;)

They launched VA on Amadeus from memory. So they are combining 3 different systems Navataire and Amadeus into Sabre.
 
They launched VA on Amadeus from memory. So they are combining 3 different systems Navataire and Amadeus into Sabre.
Erm you are indeed right. One too many Gin Fizzes in the QF F Lounge in AKL ;) *corrects post*

That will add another year to it unfortunately.
 
So what you are saying essentially is that they are running the equivalent of Mac, Linux and windows, and trying to get them to play well together?


I'm too poor to own a signature
 
So what you are saying essentially is that they are running the equivalent of Mac, Linux and windows, and trying to get them to play well together?


I'm too poor to own a signature
Almost.

They are transferring all the operations from 3 systems into one system rather than actually combining the three.
 
Hi,

Long time lurker but thought I should add my 2c to this.

Changing the GDS or reservations system is a massive undertaking that takes years of planning, preparation and testing.

So what you are saying essentially is that they are running the equivalent of Mac, Linux and windows, and trying to get them to play well together?


I'm too poor to own a signature

This is in effect correct but in addition you also have all the other components tied into it. For example VA's current setup is like having a windows PC (VA Domestic) currently trying to talk to a Linux PC (VA Longhaul) with an iPad (Velocity) talking to both. In addition you also have all the back end systems that you don't see (think Internet explorer, firefox etc) trying to operate on each of these systems. Probably not the best example but you kinda get the idea of the complexity of it.

When DJ started up the old 'Open Skies' reservation system that's made by Navitare was perfect for their operation. Its a simple and cheap reservation system for a simple airline. Over the years DJ became more complex by trying to fill the void left by Ansett by adding Velocity, VA, codeshares etc. The reservation system wasn't up to the job to complete these tasks therefore a few years ago they switched to 'New Skies' by Navitare. This is an updated system that added some flexibility and additional features. DJ essentially 'bolted' on the extra systems and tweaked them so that they would talk. This obviously added complexity to the GDS and was partially responsible for the various crashes that have occurred over the years and doesn't create a perfectly integrated service (of which the vast majority of complaints here are about).

The GDS is essentially the brain of an airline. On the outside it talks to the frequent flyer systems, the various websites and allows for fares to be bought through TA's and external websites like Expedia. Internally however it needs to talk to several more systems. It talks to the Load Control system (in this case a system called WABLink which is made by Lufthansa) to provide PAX numbers, number of bags etc. so that the weight and balance of each flight is within the safe operating limits of each aircraft. It also needs to talk to the flight planning systems for the generation of flight plans (think amount of fuel required based on weight). It will also talk to the Aircraft Movement systems that control what aircraft does what (Currently this is Sabre AirOps made by Sabre). Added to that there is the Crew Management systems (Sabre AirCrews by Sabre) which pulls data from the GDS to provide PAX details (Numbers) and Manifests to the operating crews. Then there are all the airport based systems like for gate planning (which is quite complicated especially at Sydney) which pushes through the gate numbers to the system (so that it shows on your boarding pass, website and the Flight info screens in the airport).

There are many more others but I think you get the picture.

Sabre Sonic will essentially tie all of these systems together in a (hopefully) seamless manner. It was originally slated to go live in October but was pushed back as the IT teams wanted more time to test its integration with the non-Sabre systems. I can guarantee you that the vast majority of the issues that have been raised will be fixed with this transition. Just remember that it does take time and there will probably be some teething issues at Go-Live.

Hope that puts some perspective of how huge and complicated this is.

Oh and sorry for the long reply :)
 
Preface: I work in the IT business.

Transitioning between 3 completely different proprietary systems is a massive undertaking. Given the importance and critical nature of the system i think two years is actually pretty impressive.

As mentioned in the previous post by Adrian, its not just a website and booking system they're changing. It will effect the entire operations of essentially two complete airlines, not to mention the additional systems (load control, air craft movement etc) as well as partner airline systems. DJ has gone through a somewhat typical growth stage with their IT infrastructure, similar to most businesses. Starting with something small and barebones that does the essentials - they had a tight budget, and i'm sure some things were just easier to manage on paper than having some complicated IT system. They've then grown dramatically and wanted to offer new features, however i would suggest that typical of most businesses, IT had the minimal funding possible to create the best system in the world. Consequently alot of things were done on the cheap. Proprietary systems were developed and specific programs were created to do one or two simple things.

To explain what i mean, i'm translating a typical IT project example into an airline context.

Someone would have gone gee its getting difficult to estimate how many drinks we should be loading onto a particular flight. They would have gone to the IT department and said "IT Nerd fix this problem and you have a budget of $2.50 to do so". Now the simplest thing would be too go to the vendor of the current software package to see if this is available as an add on, however in typical software fashion the "drinks management" package is part of the advanced airline management package which is just a 10 squillion dollar upgrade and offers everything from carpet cleaning management through to drinking straw management.. so this would mean spending 10 squillion for a system that your only going to use 2% of. So boy wonder the IT guy pulls some late nights and with lots of head scratching develops a simple little program that pulls some information from their existing system, and with some fancy maths prints out a simple drinks usage estimate for each flight. Problem solvered! the IT nerd is an absolute genius - he's found a solution to the problem, and it only cost them a few hours of his time. Now 6 months down the track, some other smart guy notes that for every can of diet coke they sell, they use 2 cups, 1 serviette and 1 straw and thinks if only we had a way to take the information from the drinks management system and we can easily know how many cups, serviettes and straws we need. Same process is repeated and after a few late nights there's another seperate program that talks to the drinks system and now produces a report for stock ordering. Rinse and repeat this process many times over and you can begin to understand how these things develop.

Now as time goes on these programs have become ingrained in the way things are done. Times gone past, staff have moved on and now not many actually no why certain things are done this way, but its just the way things are done. The systems not exactly elegant and crashes regularly - but for the most part the reports are produced and business carries on (lets ignore the fact that IT now spends majority of it's time putting out fires - aka fixing things that randomly break for no reason other than someone typed three letters instead of two in a particular line). Oh sure every now and again someone looks at the drink management package and goes this is silly why doesn't it do this, or why isn't it part of our main system. There's some yelling and screaming, some gnashing of teeth and crunching of numbers, money gets spent on doing "feasibility studies", knowledgeable consultants with long beards are brought in to design solutions, and then its put on the way too hard pile and forgotten about.

So this has gone on for a few years, finally they have decided to spend some money as part of their new business model to move to a single platform that does everything nicely. They've had the company sales reps in who've shown pretty powerpoint presentations and promised silver spoons for everyones mouths.

Documents are signed and the project begins... (this is where the fun starts!)

The new wonder software's drink management system is brilliant, but it's pretty much useless without the historical information from the existing system. However the existing system was written years ago in the equivalent language of paintings on the cave wall. To make things worse it was written by the first settlers who didn't actually understand the caveman wall painting language. Add to this the many generations of people who haven't understood this language, yet have had to make changes to the system or fix particular problems that have crept up and the whole things pretty much a mess. 3 months go past with software monkeys typing away trying to develop a system that will talk in caveman to the old system and retrieve information in a way that can be easily put into the new system. Finally after many revisions and lots of head shakes they finally have something cobled together that brings most of the information out - however some will still need to be manually entered. (To save getting into too much detail, we'll skip over the period where a change is made in the old drinks system which is still being used daily at this point that completely breaks the system to export the data..)

In the blink of an eye 12 months has gone past, progress has been made, things have been cobbled together to allow information to be exported out of the existing programs and imported into the new program. Clear well defined scopes of who's responsible for doing what have been written, the projects been given a cool code name complete with fancy logo and custom t-shirts for the project team.

Now its time for the presentation of the system to a small test group. Usually a small number of staff and they have say 4 weeks to play with the new system.

So the testing period closes and feedback forms are sent out to the test group. Everyone except the IT department (who actually understand the importance of testing!) fails to send back the forms. After a few phone calls it's discovered the testing group has been so busy managing their day to day positions they've had next to no time to even login to the new system, let alone have a look at it. "some gnashing of teeth and yelling/screaming occurs" and finally another 4 week test period is set with strict instructions that the testing staff must actually test it and give feedback.

Another 4 weeks passes and sure enough the feedback begins to come through - "it doesn't look like the old system, i clicked button A in the new program but it does something different to button A in the old program - must be broken..." Hopefully however there's been some constructive feedback received and there's another period of development followed by another round of testing.

(for those keeping track - there's another 3-6 months gone!)

Finally at long last we're almost at the point where we can start rolling out the new system. It's usually around here that some massive critical bug or issue is discovered. You know the one along the lines of "what do you mean we can't connect our existing website to the new system" or "what do you mean the existing computers we have in every terminal and office worldwide won't run the new program..". In typical fashion, someone's head - usually the person who pointed these issues out in the initial meetings gets cut off and someone new who has no knowledge of whats been done so far is brought in to fix all the shortcomings of the previous person.

We're now 20 months into the project and it's here the real fun begins. We start developing training modules for the staff to complete and sending out training teams to offices around the world training everyone on how the new system will work. There's lots of resentment as staff realise just how much everything's going to change, and how much 'harder' their jobs will become given they will have to use four letter acronyms for the airports rather than the three letter ones they've always used, and that in the drinks management system a can of coke will have the item code "CanOfCoke" instead of "283749293cddsc" meaning they have to relearn all the new codes.

It's generally about here that the projects 18 trillion dollars over budget, can't run on the existing IT systems and the staff hate it that it's cancelled completely and business continues to run on the old systems for ever and a day.





Assuming you've made it this far.. fingers crossed DJ complete their migration to sabre with as few problems as possible. I expect once they complete the move we will see some great improvements to how their websites interact together and everything will be a great improvement. That said - i personally don't have any major issues with either the velocity site or the main virgin site! :)
 
Thanks for the detailed responses, I guess I can see now why the changeover is sol difficult. I guess the only question is why would what was essentially the same company (VA, Virgin Blue and Velocity) choose to run three separate systems? I know V Australia and Virgin Blue were total differnt types of airline, but you would think they would have standardised early on
 
Thanks for the detailed responses, I guess I can see now why the changeover is sol difficult. I guess the only question is why would what was essentially the same company (VA, Virgin Blue and Velocity) choose to run three separate systems? I know V Australia and Virgin Blue were total differnt types of airline, but you would think they would have standardised early on

V Australia had to be run totally separately (and hence the name).

V needed a GDS that integrated with other carriers, had more features, and allowed them to operate as a proper carrier.

Virgin Blue were running Navitaire, a LCC solution designed specifically for LCC's.

They could have moved to Amadeus I guess. I'm not sure what the reason was to move to Sabre, but i'm assuming Sabre made it financially worth their time.
 
Don't forget there is also the Skywest flights to add to the mix. They are currently added to the DJ bookings as information segments which is unacceptable for long term operations.
 
From what I've heard...

Virgin Australia Long Haul Flights are planning to migrate over to Sabre in September with staff beginning training next month.
Virgin Australia Domestic/Short Haul flights are planning to migrate over to Sabre in February with staff beginning training in January.
 
I was going to post something negative about the VA sites but since reading posts 48 & 49 I will keep quiet and read another thread
 
The website issues have allowed us to take advantage of some pretty cool quirks, be wary of what you wish for ;).
 
Thankyou Adrian_E and elemist, the best two posts in the thread and now even I understand what's going on :D
 
EXCLUSIVE OFFER - Offer expires: 20 Jan 2025

- Earn up to 200,000 bonus Velocity Points*
- Enjoy unlimited complimentary access to Priority Pass lounges worldwide
- Earn up to 3 Citi reward Points per dollar uncapped

*Terms And Conditions Apply

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Thankyou Adrian_E and elemist, the best two posts in the thread and now even I understand what's going on :D

Very informative indeed...

BUT

As a customer the Virgin IT soap opera is of minimal interest to me. If I did not read this or similar forums and I know that many many regular flyers do not, then I would just look at their IT product and think that it is a schmozzle. I would like a product that works well and all of the reasons in the world, as valid as they may be are of little consequence in the commercial arena. Harsh, I don't really think so. Virgin are not amateurs and they are not a charity.

I was in Canada just after Westjet did the change from Navitaire to Sabre and they had a fair few headaches and copped some flak initially but I think that it all ended up being a success. I think that they had a simpler set of issues than Virgin in the migration.

Anyway I wish Virgin every success and keenly await the change.
 
If we are talking managing international long haul bookings, or trying to purchase them with points, then I'm with you. Those problems have been frustrating me for months. The rest of the things I need it to do are fine.
These parts of the site are finally working again; managing international long haul bookings isn't working on the iPad, but is ok on the laptop.
 
On The website matter, the only thing that frustrates me is constantly logging in to velocity when booking. It is two different systems right, Velocity and the VA site?

Sorry to dig up an old thread - but has anyone else noticed that the Velocity web site is still rubbish? (VA bookings and Velocity web sites still not talking to each other) - and the changeover is now at least a month overdue is that correct?
 
Sorry to dig up an old thread - but has anyone else noticed that the Velocity web site is still rubbish? (VA bookings and Velocity web sites still not talking to each other) - and the changeover is now at least a month overdue is that correct?
The last date that I heard from within the Virgin network was January. My info is several months old so it may have slipped further.

A good opportunity for the VA rep to report in In My Humble Opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top