Virgin Australia Delays/Cancellations

[Big John]

Quite significant amount of cancellations/delays due to baggage issues at VA's Melbourne terminal today as a result of plenty of flights cancelled/delayed from BNE/OOL.

Mrs BigJohn has now been stuck at BNE for 4 hours !

She doesn't have lounge access either

 

[Vee711]

I need an opinion as to whether I have rights to compensation.

Was due to fly back from MELB to BNE on 27 February at 9:10pm (the weekend of the floods). This flight was delayed several times and ultimately cancelled. It was cancelled around 10pm and was told that our flights were rescheduled for 1:10pm on 28 February,

An hour later (approx 11pm of the same night), we found out (via Google, not VA), that the 1:10pm 28 February was cancelled. So we called VA and they confirmed the cancellation and rescheduled us for 7am 1 March. We asked several times if there were earlier flights available, they said no.

So with this information, we booked 2 nights accommodation and traveled back to Melb CBD.

The next morning, we found there were earlier flights on 28 February via their website, so we called VA again and they said they could put us on 2:10pm or 3:10pm 28 February flight back to BNE - we did so and cancelled our 2nd night's accommodation (which was non-refundable).

Now, I asked VA if they could compensate us for the 2nd night accommodation because:

• they cancelled our 1:10pm 28 February flight at 11pm 27 February, which is a good 13-14 hours later. And despite the fact we actually flew that very same day;
• based on the point above, it sounded more like it was an act within VA's control than adverse weather; and
• we acted based on the information they gave us and that was the only flight available was at 7am 1 March. We thought it was weird that there would be no flights on 28 February...

They said, no because the cancellation of the 1:10pm 28 February flight was cancelled due to adverse weather conditions.

I thought that was a bit ridiculous given that there's a good 13-14 hours between the time they cancelled our flights and the actual scheduled flight.

Does any have any experiences similar to this? Should I have a right in compensation?

 

[Quickstatus]

Now, I asked VA if they could compensate us for the 2nd night accommodation because:

No is the short answer - for the reason the airline gave.
It is also impossible to know if the seats on the afternoon 28th were available all along. The airline may have initially given those seats to other passengers on your initial flight who accepted and then cancelled later - releasing the seats back into the booking system. Or that flight was fully booked but there were some later passenger cancellations.

Your travel insurance should cover it.

 

[Vee711]

No is the short answer - for the reason the airline gave.
It is also impossible to know if the seats on the afternoon 28th were available all along. The airline may have initially given those seats to other passengers on your initial flight who accepted and then cancelled later - releasing the seats back into the booking system. Or that flight was fully booked but there were some later passenger cancellations.

Your travel insurance should cover it.

But those reasons you gave for cancelling the 1:10pm 28 February flight are not caused by adverse weather conditions but something that is within VA's control, isn't it? Or are they saying that all their actions after cancelling our initial 27 February flight can be attributed to adverse weather conditions (which seems very broad).

If another passenger has accepted those seats, VA shouldn't have offered the 1:10pm 28 February flight to us in the first place because that's what determined our decisions on booking additional nights of accommodation.

 

[Melburnian1]

But those reasons you gave for cancelling the 1:10pm 28 February flight are not caused by adverse weather conditions but something that is within VA's control, isn't it? Or are they saying that all their actions after cancelling our initial 27 February flight can be attributed to adverse weather conditions (which seems very broad).

If another passenger has accepted those seats, VA shouldn't have offered the 1:10pm 28 February flight to us in the first place because that's what determined our decisions on booking additional nights of accommodation.

It's rare in Australia for passengers to receive compensation.

An exception was for international flights ex the UK and Europe (when UK was pre-Brexit) via the provisions of the EU 261 regulation.

 

[Quickstatus]

cancelling the 1:10pm 28 February flight are not caused by adverse weather

It could be related to the first event. Often there are cascading cancellations. They are calling it weather related. If you disagree you would have to have some concrete data to support your argument.

VA shouldn't have offered the 1:10pm 28 February flight to us

Why not?. They have a list of passengers to process, they go down the list and you get the 1:10. Then the 1:10 was also cancelled and they offered you the 7am. After that you found some earlier seats. You were not the only passenger with individual priorities and schedules to reschedule. They offered and you accepted what was available at the time. You assumption seems to be that there were seats on the flight you ultimately flew back on from the outset but I am not sure you can say that.

If you stayed with the 7am (which you accepted) you could have used the hotel booking. Technically you were prepared to stay longer. That you found an earlier flight is not really for VA to compensate.

Basically I don’t see anything productive chasing VA for this. Just make a claim in your Travel insurance and see what they say

 

[Vee711]

It could be related to the first event. Often there are cascading cancellations. They are calling it weather related. If you disagree you would have to have some concrete data to support your argument.

Fair point but I have never seen a flight cancelled 14 hours in advance due to a storm. Only for the airline to say "nope, all is good to fly". Volcano eruptions and other significant force majeure events, sure.

Then there is really nothing stopping them saying "sorry, gotta cancel your flight in 2 days because we think the current storm is really bad and we think it'll last 2 days". And then after rescheduling your flight, saying "oh, nah its all good, you could have flown on your original time slot. And too bad, we're not compensating you for anything because we cancelled your flight too early". I'm exaggerating here to make a point.

Why not?. They have a list of passengers to process, they go down the list and you get the 1:10. Then the 1:10 was also cancelled and they offered you the 7am.

What if I have evidence that the 1:10pm flight still went ahead?

If you stayed with the 7am (which you accepted) you could have used the hotel booking. Technically you were prepared to stay longer. That you found an earlier flight is not really for VA to compensate.

Yes, we were prepared to stay longer but that was because there were no other options (apart from flying with another airline). Not like VA would have refunded us for the flight back...

 

[Quickstatus]

What if I have evidence that the 1:10pm flight still went ahead?

Would not have made one iota of difference because they could have cancelled then reinstated the flight.

I can see you are not happy but I think you won’t win here.

because there were no other options

“…At the time...”
No one has a crystal ball

 

[Quickstatus]

have never seen a flight cancelled 14 hours in advance due to a storm

That is not evidence of anything. Unless you have detailed view into the “situation room” it really does not matter.

People criticise airline for cancelling flights at the last moment. And here people criticise them for cancelling ahead of time.

 

[jase05]

It seems as though you have already decided to pursue this further which is completely your choice. Others have said it will most likely be futile and I tend to agree but no harm trying

 

[Quickstatus]

no harm trying

For the price of a properly worded letter definitely no harm trying.
If you want to go down that road, make sure it’s factually correct. Opinions and assertions don’t ocarry much weight.

 

[Vee711]

I've already tried pursuing it further knowing it was futile and without escalating it. Just seeing if others have had similar experiences.

And to be honest, I didn't have high hopes to begin with but it's good to understand the reasoning behind it.

Just seems like bottom line, compensation from airlines is difficult to get.

 

[Vee711]

Would not have made one iota of difference because they could have cancelled then reinstated the flight

I wonder what ACCC's opinion is if airlines are allowed to cancel a flight 14 hours ahead due to weather only to reinstate it less than 7 hours after cancelling.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I am confused as to why you booked two nights accommodation instead of one, even if your rescheduled flight was for two days later surely you take it day by day with such disruptions? Unless you're happy to relax for 2 days (which I presume you weren't based on the fact you chased up flying out ASAP)

Post automatically merged: Apr 5, 2022

I wonder how ACCC's opinion is if airlines are allowed to cancel a flight 14 hours ahead due to weather only to reinstate it less than 7 hours after cancelling.

The weather changes.

Next case.

 

[Vee711]

I am confused as to why you booked two nights accommodation instead of one, even if your rescheduled flight was for two days later surely you take it day by day with such disruptions? Unless you're happy to relax for 2 days (which I presume you weren't based on the fact you chased up flying out ASAP)

Because we wanted to make sure we had a roof over our heads...

In hind sight, it might have been better to take it day by day but am not a seasoned traveler and have not had much experiences with cancellations. Lesson learnt

Edit: also to answer your other question, we had day jobs and families to get back to, which is why we wanted to fly out ASAP

 

[Must...Fly!]

but am not a seasoned traveler and have not had much experiences with cancellations.

Fair enough, it's one of those things you learn as you travel more.

 

[Quickstatus]

I wonder what ACCC's opinion

Nothing. Operational matters are not within the purview of the ACCC.

Cancellations happen all the time. It is feature of flying “commercial”.

There all sorts of cancellation stories including one QF one when they were operating via DXB where it was alleged that one sector was cancelled and passengers disembarked just to accomodate the passengers of a similar sector but which had the QF CEO as the beneficiary.

My cancellation story is an SQ one where I was told to get the SQ boarding pass in SIN for the final leg to AU from KUL. Got to SIn and they said flight overbooked. Offered me a flight 4 hrs later and to sweeten it The agent promptly pulled out wads of cash. In the end it was $2500 SGD for the 5 of us to wait for 4 hrs. I shut complaining further.

There are other stories of passengers being downgraded from business to economy due to cancellations causing unavailability of seats on a particular flight. Except for economy. They downgraded a business passenger to economy but the refund was the difference between the paid price and the spot price of economy which was very similar to the advance purchase in business class.

In my estimation you are in the middle of the two.

 

[Melburnian1]

With tomorrow Palm Sunday and thus less than a week until the peak travel period of Easter, and also today and tomorrow's Melbourne Grand Prix, there's a lot of late flights on Saturday 9 April morning out of SYD.

VA501 (0620 hours SYD - OOL, B738 VH-VUZ) was airborne at 09711 with arrival at 0815 hours, 35 minutes down.

VH-VOL on VA909 (0700 hours SYD - BNE) took off at 0909 hours with arrival suggested as 1026 hours, 116 minutes late.

Maybe some of this unpunctuality is due to the overreach of various State Governments, such as in Victoria, where deemed 'close contacts' of those who catch the novel coronavirus must still isolate for a week. This must be affecting the availability of staff in service sectors like transport.
There's understandable pressure from businesses for these restrictions to be scrapped nationally, which would be sensible given the viruses are endemic.

Shortages of security staff and baggage handlers is also reportedly a problem, as publicised by media yesterday and today, with queues forming at SYD and MEL.

 

[Quickstatus]

Shortages of security staff and baggage handlers is also reportedly a problem

Plus passengers who are not “match fit”…

 

[Melburnian1]

Plus passengers who are not “match fit”…

You can't use that comment, as the QFi/QFd gent at the top 'walked it back'.