Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[HS-TQE]

Wow not even waiting.

Well I guess VA2 won’t need as many planes.

How many IBA leased aircraft does the old VA have?

And if the Indigo LCC comglomerate gets up in the bidding, then VA Mk2 (as an LCC) won't need the Boeing aircraft at all. They'd be able to sell the owned 737s, although it'll be tough selling the 777-300ERs in the used market where widebody demand is virtually non-existent.

An Indigo Partners led VA Mk2 be using the Airbus aircraft from the TT (and/or VARA) AOC(s) initially, until they decide whether to move some of the group NEO order to the VA Mk 2 identity.

 

[AIRwin]

An Indigo Partners led VA Mk2 be using the Airbus aircraft from the TT (and/or VARA) AOC(s) initially, until they decide whether to move some of the group NEO order to the VA Mk 2 identity.

No more TT pilots...

 

[Borisdog]

Reminds me of an interview of a business operator who had closed due to the lockdown (a few weeks ago before the guidance from the government). The essence was the tenant was trying to negotiate lower rent with landlord during the lockdown. The landlord gave her the one fingered salute and evicted her instead. Tenants attitude was, oh well so be it, and that the Landlord in all likelihood won’t be able to rent the property for months now and will have no rent instead of just reduced rent.

Or maybe the landlord took the opportunity to get rid of a tenant that had been a pain in the bum for a while, and didn't care about the rent.

We'll never know, but having been fisted by more than one tenant myself I know that it isn't always the tenant who's the lovely, nice person and the landlord's the dumb, bad ogre.

 

[Spongbob]

Or maybe the landlord took the opportunity to get rid of a tenant that had been a pain in the bum for a while, and didn't care about the rent.

We'll never know, but having been fisted by more than one tenant myself I know that it isn't always the tenant who's the lovely, nice person and the landlord's the dumb, bad ogre.

And the relevance to Virgin Australia is what...?

 

[jakeseven7]

QLD government enlisting the old VA Brisbane based workers to try and secure VA2 HQ here.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Borisdog]

And the relevance to Virgin Australia is what...?

Sometimes it's better to be rid of something bad than to enable it to carry on?

 

[jase05]

SMH reporting that Temasek is interested in a partnership with BGH Capital
Surprised it’s taken this long for one of the media outlets to push the old and worn SQ line

 

[jakeseven7]

Some more details on Velocity shaking down the old VA for their money back....

And also that Indigo Partners came close to taking out the old VA 1.5 years ago.....
I really really hope they don't win and turn VA2 into anything like Frontier.... horrid airline!

Velocity Frequent Flyer owner pursues Virgin for $150m

The company that operates Velocity Frequent Flyer is to peruse Virgin Australia as a creditor to recoup a $150 million loan extended in 2014.

australianaviation.com.au

 

[travel_bug]

QLD government enlisting the old VA Brisbane based workers to try and secure VA2 HQ here.

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Perhaps not directly related to the base being in Brisbane (haven't read the article as paywalled), but I find the ongoing use of employees as a kind of emotional or political capital really interesting as an outsider - and I do wonder if it's working from a PR perspective.

To be clear; I very much feel for every employee (VA or otherwise) who has found their employment decimated by the pandemic, and jobs across the board have been nearly universally affected. This commentary is not against the employees who obviously would like to keep their jobs, but really for the powers that be.

When VA, and maybe now a state government, are using those who have been stood-down in calls to action, or taking PR shots of them volunteering in their VA uniform, it reaches a point where the cynic in me really comes out and it feels less genuine, or it starts feeling like those posts are meant to act as a shield against the barrage of comments they'll get on social media from people requesting a refund or clarification on whether they'll even get a travel credit anymore.

 

[travel_bug]

Some more details on Velocity shaking down the old VA for their money back....

And also that Indigo Partners came close to taking out the old VA 1.5 years ago.....
I really really hope they don't win and turn VA2 into anything like Frontier.... horrid airline!

Velocity Frequent Flyer owner pursues Virgin for $150m

The company that operates Velocity Frequent Flyer is to peruse Virgin Australia as a creditor to recoup a $150 million loan extended in 2014.

australianaviation.com.au

Really to be expected, I would imagine that as it is a trust, any failure of Velcoity in acting on their secured debt would be a major breach of the trustee's fiduciary duties toward the beneficiaries considering the state of the debtor.

 

[jakeseven7]

Perhaps not directly related to the base being in Brisbane (haven't read the article as paywalled), but I find the ongoing use of employees as a kind of emotional or political capital really interesting as an outsider - and I do wonder if it's working from a PR perspective.

To be clear; I very much feel for every employee (VA or otherwise) who has found their employment decimated by the pandemic, and jobs across the board have been nearly universally affected. This commentary is not against the employees who obviously would like to keep their jobs, but really for the powers that be.

When VA, and maybe now a state government, are using those who have been stood-down in calls to action, or taking PR shots of them volunteering in their VA uniform, it reaches a point where the cynic in me really comes out and it feels less genuine, or it starts feeling like those posts are meant to act as a shield against the barrage of comments they'll get on social media from people requesting a refund or clarification on whether they'll even get a travel credit anymore.

It is interesting and honestly I don't think it is really working.

They are trying to humanise the collapse by using local Aussie faces instead of UK billionares, Arab multi billionares, Chinese government backed companies and Singaporeans. Its a well worn PR strategy.

But thanks to Bransons consistent screeching on the media, that blew their cover to mainstream Australia of being almost completely foreign owned and controlled by people who didn't care about the fate of the company enough to help.

There isn't that much mainstream public empathy or strong brand love to the old VA business and you can see that by how lukewarm the response was to a bailout - and the government knew it and thats why they didn't do anything over and above the industry support packages.

 

[p--and--t]

Really to be expected, I would imagine that as it is a trust, any failure of Velcoity in acting on their secured debt would be a major breach of the trustee's fiduciary duties toward the beneficiaries considering the state of the debtor.

Yep, in addition any company going into administration or insolvency is a lawyer's and administrator's gluttonous feast

 

[travel_bug]

Yep, in addition any company going into administration or insolvency is a lawyer's and administrator's gluttonous feast

Ahh what'd I'd give to be a fly on the wall in the Melbourne and Sydney offices of Clutz and KWM as their grads tear each other limb from limb for the chance to get even a slice of the billables on offer here.

 

[HS-TQE]

Temasek (owners of SIA) mulling plans to "piggy-back" on BGH Capital as a joint-bid for VAH. BGH and Temasek are refusing to comment at this stage.

If true, it would pit Temasek/BGH against former partner Etihad AG's co-bid with another equity firm. In addition to Wesfarmers, Macquarie and the Indigo Partners LCC comglomerate.

IMO, I wonder how long it will be before the Temasek news fizzles out as "fake news" no. 5437858643765346564386454365?

Singapore Inc could stick with Virgin Australia through BGH bid

Singapore's $340 billion sovereign wealth fund Temasek has emerged as a possible wildcard in the race for control of collapsed airline Virgin Australia.

www.smh.com.au

 

[woodborer]

SMH reporting that Temasek is interested in a partnership with BGH Capital
Surprised it’s taken this long for one of the media outlets to push the old and worn SQ line

I doubt SQ will be involved (at least initially), but that doesn't mean Singapore Inc isn't sniffing around. They are probably looking into lots of things

 

[HS-TQE]

I doubt SQ will be involved (at least initially), but that doesn't mean Singapore Inc isn't sniffing around. They are probably looking into lots of things

Temasek were also 'reportedly' interested in Virgin Altantic. Things would've gone full circle if they went ahead there as well.

IMO, I find Temasek's interest in "both Virgins" (VS/VA) pretty much very minimal chance at best of occuring for at least one of the companies.

Virgin Atlantic says still talking with UK government on coronavirus funds

Virgin Atlantic is still talking with the British government about a bailout package to cope with the devastating effects of the coronavirus outbreak on travel as well as focusing on private sector funding, a company spokeswoman told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

 

[dajop]

IMO, I find Temasek's interest in "both Virgins" (VS/VA) pretty much very minimal chance at best of occuring for at least one of the companies.

I agree, Singapore Inc is always on the look out for opportunities but that doesn't mean they are actually interested.

If they are interested, it may ultimately be recognition that SQ are incredibly dismal at managing any interest in foreign airlines, but Temasek themselves may fare better, and could attempt to manage he asset strategically to make money as well as complementing/optimising SQ's presence in the Australian market.

 

[Scarlett]

I suspect the aircraft lessors blurb about repossession and turning around aircraft for a new lease was written well before covid-19. I wonder where they think they're going to place their repossessed asset these days?

Most aircraft leasing companies would be edging closer to their own financial wipeout, I'd have to think, seeing as they'd be paying off their own leases. And with more airlines collapsing and most planning to downsize fleets, leasing aircraft doesn't seem to be a great business opportunity for the foreseeable future.

Probably doesn't help VA however.

 

[jakeseven7]

Temasek (owners of SIA) mulling plans to "piggy-back" on BGH Capital as a joint-bid for VAH. BGH and Temasek are refusing to comment at this stage.

If true, it would pit Temasek/BGH against former partner Etihad AG's co-bid with another equity firm. In addition to Wesfarmers, Macquarie and the Indigo Partners LCC comglomerate.

IMO, I wonder how long it will be before the Temasek news fizzles out as "fake news" no. 5437858643765346564386454365?

Singapore Inc could stick with Virgin Australia through BGH bid

Singapore's $340 billion sovereign wealth fund Temasek has emerged as a possible wildcard in the race for control of collapsed airline Virgin Australia.

www.smh.com.au

Its a big IF ITS TRUE isnt it

But playing along assuming its true and forgetting both airlines terrible track record in managing airlines - for us PAX - a proper integrated SQ ownership stake would hopefully lead to inclusion in Star Alliance down the track. And EY could well be gobbled up by EK and EK/EY + VA would be an amazing alliance as well.

And VA2 would be a far better investment decision than VS which has pretty much been a basket case since launch and handed around owners like a hot potato!

 

[samh004]

Been a while since I last commented in this thread. A lot has happened in that time.

I'd love to see the 'Indigo' bid take shape, despite the fact it will take VA downmarket from its current position. I read the other day that they previously were going to make a play for them, but wanted assurances they could buy the other players out in the future for full control and when they didn't get this assurance, they backed out. They would no doubt have seen the books at that time, and known the precarious position they could eventually end up in, but despite that they were serious about taking the first stake. To me, that sounds like they knew what they were getting themselves into and wanted to make VA work properly. I also read though that the ACCC was against this bid (or perhaps against VA going back to its LCC roots) and hope that the ACCC doesn't ruin what could be a viable airline/owner. I say this because, while the ACCC might want two full-service airlines, instead of two LCC's (could have either at this stage), had this deal gone through at the first attempt they would already have shifted downmarket before this pandemic, and presumably not faced such fierce resistance.

That said, the 'Singapore' bid also has some promise if VA ends up tying in nicely with the SIA network into/out of Australia. I guess this would allow them to remain full service as well, and perhaps over time even take it up a notch to match SIA. Star Alliance could eventually be on the horizon and in terms of a full-service road to recovery I think aligning with SIA would be the strongest choice.

What I wouldn't like to see is Etihad taking any control, as they have shown time and again that they can't manage nearly anything they touch – Air Berlin, Virgin Australia, Jet Airways, Darwin Airline and Alitalia. Would also like to avoid multiple owners as VA's last decade has shown that it just becomes self-serving to the owners interests and in a decade we'll be at this stage again.