Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[Bagpuss]

It will probably hit the ASX tomorrow.

Step 1 in good condiitons - Notify staff what is likey to occur
Step 2 - Notification on ASX
Step 3 - Re-engage staff

Step 2 hasn't occurred yet.

 

[Melburnian1]

Well all those sttod-down Qantas workers have got to do something with their time in the hope that they can see off their domestic competitor so AJ can then unleash some new enhancements!

Enhancements always needs " " around it to give newbies on AFF the idea.

 

[antycbr]

Enhancements always needs " " around it to give newbies on AFF the idea.

Just like "working from home" used to have.

 

[Melburnian1]

At least employee benefits are guaranteed through FEGS. The Feds are on the hook for $850 million at this point.

Someone I know who worked at Ansett Australia said, IIRC, it took three or so years to obtain all his entitlements.

If it comes to that, I hope none of the VA staff perceive they'll get every last cent they are owned instantly.

 

[antycbr]

Someone I know who worked at Ansett Australia said, IIRC, it took three or so years to obtain all his entitlements.

If it comes to that, I hope none of the VA staff perceive they'll get every last cent they are owned instantly.

AN predates FEGS I believe, it also used to be called GEERS?

 

[woodborer]

Voluntary Administration is not always a bad thing (unless you're a creditor). Let's them reorganise.

 

[RAM]

If Virgin gets re-capatalised which really is going to end up wiping off debt. I actually think Virgin will be a very strong airline at least domestically.
I think Qantas is going to be in a World of pain, especially as there are some predications some travel markets such as the UK wont come back until late next year.
Virgin's international fleet is very small, Qantas' is much bigger. Qantas will probably offload it's 380's and if they take the loan they've been offered it will be secured against all their B787's. Though I expect they will use the B787's to replace A330's. But this is a Virgin Australia forum.

Qantas is hoping the VA saga will stretch on for ages - as it takes the focus off Q's parlous state.

Q's over 100 international fleet is unlikely to be in the air for 15-18 months, let alone operating at break-even levels. The A380s have a ZERO value. Nobody wants them, even brand news ones are sitting unloved (Malaysian Airlines), the first couple that reached 10 years were leased by SIA and they happily returned them to the owner who has subsequently sent them to be scrapped for parts.

Due to the poor economics of the A380 vs the B777, even B747-400, B747-800 etc - there is now no bidder at any price for 10yr old A380s let alone 1 year old A380s. Even Emirates, before CV took centre stage, cut the number of A380s they wanted.

One of the A380's major financial impediments is that Airbus knew the future outlook with 100% accuracy and decided to build the base model A380-800 so that the -900 & -1000 used all the same sections EXACTLY, and only added an additional section(s) to achieve the stretch. The wingbox & all structural elements on the A380 are built to handle the load specs of the A380-1000.

AKA massively over-engineered for the A380-800 version, in other words WAY OVERWEIGHT and occupy space that could otherwise have been used for other cargo capacity. A B777 has between 3 & 4 times the other cargo capacity of an A380-800, which helps add to its operational cost/revenue efficiency.

Secondly the value Q has its planes in its balance sheet does not appear to reflect reality, and is easily verified given their well-advertised write-offs in 2013.

Q is haemorraghing cash in required daily/48hr & 72hr maintenance on its grounded planes, the terminals it sold off for $1.4bn and leased back, as well as all its international facilities. Q's travel voucher vs cash refunds situation far outweighs its cash & short term assets as well as its recent short-term credit facilities by my figuring.

So, in a perverse way. AJ & Q want the death of a thousand cuts to continue for VA....

Or I could be wrong of course.

 

[desafinado74]

On a very selfish and personal point of view, I really hope that Velocity members can continue to transfer their Velocity points to Krisflyer after the restructure.

But of course I do feel for the staff and wish them all the best. And like some have mentioned above, i do hope that PS and his team stick around to oversee the structure.

 

[jakeseven7]

Qantas is hoping the VA saga will stretch on for ages - as it takes the focus off Q's parlous state.

Q's over 100 international fleet is unlikely to be in the air for 15-18 months, let alone operating at break-even levels. The A380s have a ZERO value. Nobody wants them, even brand news ones are sitting unloved (Malaysian Airlines), the first couple that reached 10 years were leased by SIA and they happily returned them to the owner who has subsequently sent them to be scrapped for parts.

Due to the poor economics of the A380 vs the B777, even B747-400, B747-800 etc - there is now no bidder at any price for 10yr old A380s let alone 1 year old A380s. Even Emirates, before CV took centre stage, cut the number of A380s they wanted.

One of the A380's major financial impediments is that Airbus knew the future outlook with 100% accuracy and decided to build the base model A380-800 so that the -900 & -1000 used all the same sections EXACTLY, and only added an additional section(s) to achieve the stretch. The wingbox & all structural elements on the A380 are built to handle the load specs of the A380-1000.

AKA massively over-engineered for the A380-800 version, in other words WAY OVERWEIGHT and occupy space that could otherwise have been used for other cargo capacity. A B777 has between 3 & 4 times the other cargo capacity of an A380-800, which helps add to its operational cost/revenue efficiency.

Secondly the value Q has its planes in its balance sheet does not appear to reflect reality, and is easily verified given their well-advertised write-offs in 2013.

Q is haemorraghing cash in required daily/48hr & 72hr maintenance on its grounded planes, the terminals it sold off for $1.4bn and leased back, as well as all its international facilities. Q's travel voucher vs cash refunds situation far outweighs its cash & short term assets as well as its recent short-term credit facilities by my figuring.

So, in a perverse way. AJ & Q want the death of a thousand cuts to continue for VA....

Or I could be wrong of course.

Why don't you start a thread on this as you seem to post the same thing over and over and over for some reason? Could be a good topic? And some of your points are interesting to discuss but this thread is on VA and its financial position.

Post automatically merged: Apr 20, 2020

On a very selfish and personal point of view, I really hope that Velocity members can continue to transfer their Velocity points to Krisflyer after the restructure.

But of course I do feel for the staff and wish them all the best. And like some have mentioned above, i do hope that PS and his team stick around to oversee the structure.

Singapore may well not be an owner after all this, I wonder if that impacts it....?

 

[jase05]

Another one bites the dust music needed.

The QF fanboys will be wetting their pants with excitement at this news no doubt

 

[jakeseven7]

The QF fanboys will be wetting their pants with excitement at this news no doubt

Why? There is every chance a re-capitalized and leaner VA, more like their DJ days might be a far more fierce competitor than the current structure.

VA were always going to be weak with their ownership structure and debt. Honestly I think this may be actually best!

 

[antycbr]

The QF fanboys will be wetting their pants with excitement at this news no doubt

Until they book their next domestic airfare... or complain about 7 across business on transcons

 

[desafinado74]

Why don't you start a thread on this as you seem to post the same thing over and over and over for some reason? Could be a good topic? And some of your points are interesting to discuss but this thread is on VA and its financial position.

Post automatically merged: Apr 20, 2020

Singapore may well not be an owner after all this, I wonder if that impacts it....?

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens with SQ's role in VA.

There is a chance that the points transfer arrangement may stick around, as it is quite lucrative for SQ. And quite a lot of savvy Velocity members like to convert Velocity points to Krisflyer.

 

[serfty]

The QF fanboys will be wetting their pants with excitement at this news no doubt

Till they go to book their next domestic airfare, and complain about 7 across business on transcons.

Voluntary Administration does not necessarily mean the entity ceases operation.

 

[antycbr]

Singapore may well not be an owner after all this, I wonder if that impacts it....?

This was unusual even for equity partners (e.g. no transfer to EY). Would be very surprised if it came back even if SQ stuck around, which to date has been a big fat NO.

It also is more cash outflow from the VA entity - even if VA exists and Velocity exists, which is the big question now.

 

[george27]

Even Ansett flew after they entered administration

 

[Comoman]

"Virgin Australia has reportedly gone into voluntary administration after failing to find a way to keep the company afloat. "

Note the reportedly - speculation at this stage

Virgin Australia reportedly set for voluntary administration

Virgin Australia will reportedly go into voluntary administration after failing to find a way to keep the company afloat.

www.news.com.au

 

[antycbr]

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens with SQ's role in VA.

There is a chance that the points transfer arrangement may stick around, as it is quite lucrative for SQ. And quite a lot of savvy Velocity members like to convert Velocity points to Krisflyer.

Savvy for us doesnt mean it's a good idea for any VA mk 2. It's cash outflow.

 

[p--and--t]

Perplexing, I've read the thread title a dozen times and I still can't find any reference to QF, yet post after post after post after post is talking about QF and not VA

 

[jakeseven7]

Even Ansett flew after they entered administration

And VA don't have an owner shoveling cash out the back door as fast as they could to save themselves which is what AN had to deal with.