Virgin Australia "Milestone Announcement" June 1, 2023

[MooTime]

I guess VA never had much attention with any PR event / effort so very unaccustomed to high degree of website traffic.
Giving stuff away basically for free via social media has apparently caused many members and Bots to hit the VA wires.
Ah blah blah really. Certainly interest some but not all, not me.

 

[RooFlyer]

how to stop the bots buying the lot also.

What do the bots do with the prizes when they grab them?

 

[kerfuffle]

What do the bots do with the prizes when they grab them?

Flog them off on the internet

 

[levelnine]

This has to be one of the worst run announcements/promotions in recent history.

Complete flop of an initial announcement (new logo with a laughable slogan) proceeded by a devaluation (three tiered rewards) followed by an utter fail of a prize giveaway.

I'd honestly be embarrassed if I were working at Velocity at the moment.

 

[jpp42]

I'd honestly be embarrassed if I were working at Velocity at the moment.

I agree - I don't know if they run their store web site in-house, or more likely outsource it to an Australian company - what I've found, working in the industry, is that medium sized Australian companies can be blissfully ignorant about how to run web sites during events like this. Having these kinds of sales (we call them "flash crowds") can result in the web site receiving thousands or tens of thousands of times the normal traffic - there's no possibility any small or medium sized company has the IT prowess or network capacity to anywhere near handle it.

The proper way to do it is to hire a company to act as online bouncer and redirect all traffic through a gateway. This gateway uses the full capacity of a major cloud system (Microsoft, Amazon, etc) to absorb all the traffic, and throttles it to the actual web site at a reasonable pace that it can handle. You might have experienced this if you bought a ticket to a major event on ticket release day - the ticketing sites will assign you a place in a virtual queue and you have to wait, just as in a physical queue. Also like in real life, the bouncers can help screen out undesirables (bots), and are likely going to be much better at it than you, due to it being their full time profession.

Of course all of this costs money, and can take months to set up properly in advance of a major event, especially if the site isn't designed to integrate with the gateway/queuing software from the start. I suspect the working "around the clock" is a mad scramble to put something in place, but if they don't go with one of the big global brands (and the large capacity that comes with them), it's probably doomed to continue to fail.

Others have also pointed out that triggering the flash crowd via social media, or asking people to refresh (rather than "come back later"), exacerbate the problem - more signs they are rank amateurs in this business.

edit: typos

 

[MooTime]

This has to be one of the worst run announcements/promotions in recent history.

Complete flop of an initial announcement (new logo with a laughable slogan) proceeded by a devaluation (three tiered rewards) followed by an utter fail of a prize giveaway.

I'd honestly be embarrassed if I were working at Velocity at the moment.

where's the devaluation ?????

Have you even checked reward seats with how many have changed to Tier 1, Tier 2 & Tier 3 ???

I have extensively & by far the majority have reduced to Tier 1, the lower tier where the required points for reward seat has dropped (Tier 1 20% lower).... I'd called that increased valuation.

logo change yeah as always for every company that does it, who cares, just a corporate p$%s up as per usual.

Prize giveaway, yes interruped by IT issue, oh well few days delay, hardly end of the world.

 

[MattA]

I agree - I don't know if they run their store web site in-house, or more likely outsource it to an Australian company

The store is run by Home | Collinson Group

You can see this during the login process if you watch closely -- login happens over on the main Velocity website but you are briefly redirected back to the store via a URL that starts secure-velocityfrequentflyer.collinsongroup.com before landing back at shop.velocityfrequentflyer.com

It seemed to me that the login process (which happens across the two separate sites) was a big part of the problem. During the period on Sunday when the initial drop was online I could easily access the product listings but it wasn't possible to log in or check out.

 

[oz_mark]

I agree - I don't know if they run their store web site in-house, or more likely outsource it to an Australian company - what I've found, working in the industry, is that medium sized Australian companies can be blissfully ignorant about how to run web sites during events like this. Having these kinds of sales (we call them "flash crowds") can result in the web site receiving thousands or tens of thousands of times the normal traffic - there's no possibility any small or medium sized company has the IT prowess or network capacity to anywhere near handle it.

Colliinson (the same people that run Priority Pass), is a UK company.

 

[MattA]

where's the devaluation ?????

Have you even checked reward seats with how many have changed to Tier 1, Tier 2 & Tier 3 ???

Well we won't know how many are Tier 3 until July 5th when that tier comes online (because of the need to give 30 days notice for any detrimental change in the terms).

Personally I've never seen Y rewards as particularly valuable. Prefer to pay $$ for Y and save my points for J. So if this is it for devaluations for the foreseeable then I'm happy. YMMV of course.

 

[jpp42]

The store is run by Home | Collinson Group

Thanks, I hadn't checked. Interestingly, actually a UK company not Australian, but definitely the type of medium-sized company that thinks they're good at IT but actually aren't. Small/medium firms (or non-IT companies like Virgin) will fall for a sales pitch that they have all this experience, but running a "flash crowd" event successfully, especially when there are no past ones to predict the amount of traffic, is actually *very* hard to do without hiring a specialist firm. Of course, it could be that Collinson encouraged Velocity to engage these extra services, but they declined - so without knowing backroom conversations I shouldn't be too quick to judge them.

You can see this during the login process if you watch closely -- login happens over on the main Velocity website but you are briefly redirected back to the store via a URL that starts Collinson Identity Server before landing back at Velocity Frequent Flyer Store

Yes, that's certainly going to add to the complexity, and it might be that the limiting factor is actually the main Velocity web site hosted by someone else, but proper planning would establish the bottlenecks in advance, and adjust the throttling and queuing appropriately. An amateurish response will just be to increase the capacity on the login system, which will just kick the can down the road and expose a bottleneck somewhere else - what's needed is a wholistic study of all the components, and a queuing system to limit throughput to match the capacity of the bottleneck.

 

[levelnine]

where's the devaluation ?????

Have you even checked reward seats with how many have changed to Tier 1, Tier 2 & Tier 3 ???

As others have said, Tier 3 hasn't started yet lol.

Honestly, not sure how you can defend this. They haven't done a single thing right over the course of this announcement.

 

[MooTime]

As others have said, Tier 3 hasn't started yet lol.

Honestly, not sure how you can defend this. They haven't done a single thing right over the course of this announcement.

well thanks for proving my point, so you can book a reward seat on any route for less points now till 5th July for the next 330 days.

Better valuation of your points.

Rather easy to defend sir. If your looking at this with negative blinkers on then alas I understand you don't see a positive here.

Personally I've never seen Y rewards as particularly valuable. Prefer to pay $$ for Y and save my points for J. So if this is it for devaluations for the foreseeable then I'm happy. YMMV of course.

I agree use of points for J much better value. AFF golden rule true.

 

[levelnine]

well thanks for proving my point, so you can book a reward seat on any route for less points now till 5th July for the next 330 days.

Better valuation of your points.

Rather easy to defend sir. If your looking at this with negative blinkers on then alas I understand you don't see a positive here.

Not sure if this comment is plain naive or a poor attempt at a troll?

You have a grand total of 20 days before the devaluation kicks in. And if you have been around long enough to see any move to dynamic/tiered pricing, you'll know it ramps up over time. Look at Delta, look at American, look at Alaska, look at United, look at Marriott, look at Hilton. That's the whole point of moving from fixed to dynamic/tiered — the program can devalue on a continual basis without any notice.

It's only a positive if you like less predictability about what you'll pay and the ability to pay more for the same airfare LOL.

 

[MooTime]

Not sure if this comment is plain naive or a poor attempt at a troll?

You have a grand total of 20 days before the devaluation kicks in. And if you have been around long enough to see any move to dynamic/tiered pricing, you'll know it ramps up over time. Look at Delta, look at American, look at Alaska, look at United, look at Marriott, look at Hilton. That's the whole point of moving from fixed to dynamic/tiered — the program can devalue on a continual basis without any notice.

It's only a positive if you like less predictability about what you'll pay and the ability to pay more for the same airfare LOL.

troll, take it easy man, we're discussing VA's new Tier categories, geez.

I've seen, heard & read about dynamic pricing extensively. very much understand it, thanks for your concern.

until July 5th it's a positive, very much so, after that we'll have to check many dates & routes to see how many of each Tier there is.
And there'll be much insight to variance of tier pricing then here on AFF.

 

[levelnine]

until July 5th it's a positive, very much so, after that we'll have to check many dates & routes to see how many of each Tier there is.

Feel free to provide one example of a switch to tiered/dynamic pricing that has been a net positive for the consumer.

I've listed six where it has been a net negative. Dramatically so in the case of many of them.

 

[MooTime]

Feel free to provide one example of a switch to tiered/dynamic pricing that has been a net positive for the consumer.

I've listed six where it has been a net negative. Dramatically so in the case of many of them.

ah boy.....better than an example is that it's a positive for the consumer right now, today, tomorrow....until 5th July. How do you fail to see this ??
What happens after this is to be verified.

I give up, you can have the last say.

 

[RooFlyer]

Feel free to provide one example of a switch to tiered/dynamic pricing that has been a net positive for the consumer.

I've listed six where it has been a net negative. Dramatically so in the case of many of them.

I'm certainly not wild about dynamic pricing - although, I'm an active user of Air Canada Aeroplan and cope with it pretty well there; I guess it has many positive aspects to offset the issue of variable pricing.

But I can't see the VA tiered thing as the end of the world. Lets see the spread of Tier 3 (more expensive) Vs T1 and T2 (cheaper & unchanged) and then see how the land lies. Maybe this is a more transparent mechanism than simply taking inventory away?

Flog them off on the internet

Genuine question - how does this work in practice? How would I go about buying one of these as a secondary sale?

 

[levelnine]

How do you fail to see this ??

A couple of weeks of positive adjustments followed by a lifetime of negative adjustment... definitely a positive lol.

But I can't see the VA tiered thing as the end of the world. Lets see the spread of Tier 3 (more expensive) Vs T1 and T2 (cheaper & unchanged) and then see how the land lies. Maybe this is a more transparent mechanism than simply taking inventory away?

I didn't say it was the end of the world. I said it was a devaluation, which MooTime was contesting. And it certainly will be a devaluation. There's never been an example to the contrary. Your reference to AirCanada is yet another nice example — Canadians now hate the program because the only value is in using non-AirCanada partners (the one part that hasn't gone dynamic yet).

The suggestion floating around in these comments that Virgin will stop at tiers for economy is also wildly naive. Again, have a look at any other loyalty program. They begin by devaluing flights on particular parts of their own metal to judge its success then move on to the rest of the airline and then all partners. Happened with Delta, happened with United and is now happening with American and Alaska.

Genuine question - how does this work in practice? How would I go about buying one of these as a secondary sale?

They will be placed for sale on Chinese-language apps to decrease the risk of being caught. Happens all the time. It's actually a huge problem with award nights for hotels: Marriott Combating Reservations Fraud In China

Also rumoured to be happening with award flights: FlyerTalk Forums - View Single Post - Etihad Airways new Aeroplan partner as of May 1, 2019

 

[RooFlyer]

I didn't say it was the end of the world. I said it was a devaluation, which MooTime was contesting. And it certainly will be a devaluation. There's never been an example to the contrary. Your reference to AirCanada is yet another nice example — Canadians now hate the program because the only value is in using non-AirCanada partners (the one part that hasn't gone dynamic yet).

OK- sorry re 'end of the world'. It will be a partial devaluation - and a partial up-valuation and for T2 and business - no change.

As to future - sure, everything gets more expensive in the end, doesn't it? There's been a devaluation in steaks at Woolies, a devaluation in my revenue first class seat to London .... many FF program rewards have been devalued due to the increase in cash charges with the redemption.

That's not to defend it, or be pleased with the change - I just don't think its so dreadful as its being made out.

I don't think my feedback from Canadian friends about Aeroplan about the dynamic pricing is so bad (and we discuss frequently!) - again, there's a lot to compensate for that in the FF program.

 

[Must...Fly!]

A nice benefit might be each Platinum gets 4 vouchers each year for redeeming any available reward seat at tier 1 rates...minimal benefit in reality but I personally would probably appreciate such an idea. It's similar in terms of points cost to the complimentary upgrades