Virgin Australia to be sold to Bain Capital

[AustraliaPoochie]

Of course, it doesn't affect VA3 directly, but would in an indirect way, if VA3 under Bain will continue a liaison with SQ, until we know differently, we "assume" we can still earn VA points and VA SC from SQ flights under certain fares.
Seeing that VA3 won't fly directly to SIN, and onto most other ports, we will still have to fly SQ out of Aust to SIN to connect to all overseas ports.
Don't know if VA3 will ever again fly Aust - US using its own metal, at this stage.

 

[TheInsider]

Don't know if VA3 will ever again fly Aust - US using its own metal, at this stage.

With what aircraft?

 

[jakeseven7]

With what aircraft?

A four stop journey with a half full 737? Sell it as an island hopper?

 

[TheInsider]

A four stop journey with a half full 737? Sell it as an island hopper?

Oh well then they will NEED an alliance then!!

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

They could do a deeper alliance with DL.
Who knows what they will do.
(Or), not sure who makes the ultimate decision, does JH have the authority to decide, down the "runway" to buy or to lease 2 B787s or A350s, or does she have to consult with the "further ups".
As of now, its all 737s.
Seeing that the B787/A350 is more modern, and efficient to fly than what is in the fleet at the moment.
We all thought VARA was "dead", turns out they will keep it in one form or another.

 

[RAM]

A four stop journey with a half full 737? Sell it as an island hopper?

Go stand in the corner!

One of the rare bits that came out of the Bain camp in June/July was that they'd had discussions with Boeing about B787 intentions in the future. Given the number of B787s orders that have been deferred or cancelled there should be no problem with VA getting their hands on some in 2022/23 if so desired at an attractive price. However, I am not so sure that Bain will really want to go international other than perhaps NZ using their B737s.

I wonder how the economics of the B787 stacks up against the B777X? After all the B777 has around 3x the 'other' cargo capacity compared with the ill-fated A380. I suspect freight is going to be the cash cow for airlines for quite a few years while passenger volumes slowly recover & as the bankruptcy wave sweeps through global business. All assuming that the CV vaccines function as advertised.

 

[HS-TQE]

If there are to be any 789s in VA's medium term future (2-4 years time), I'd suspect they'd be coming as a conversion from the (likely) indefinitely deferred 737MAX order. Although yes, you wouldn't rule out leases either.

With Bain, I'd suspect an 'encumbering' finance arrangement with the banks, similar to QF's 789s (E.G QF owns the 789 fleet but they are also encumbered with the banks) if 789s do come from converting the 737MAX order.

 

[Lynda2475]

News reporting that the new look Virgin is proceeding with purchasing some more 737Max aircraft.

If I wasnt sure if Id fly VA again before I am now. Not every keen to fly on a 737Max.

 

[jakeseven7]

News reporting that the new look Virgin is proceeding with purchasing some more 737Max aircraft.

If I wasnt sure if Id fly VA again before I am now. Not every keen to fly on a 737Max.

Yea they are grabbing a few Max10’s but not until 2023.... will be used for international as well as domestic.... ugh single aisle international...

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Yea they are grabbing a few Max10’s but not until 2023.... will be used for international as well as domestic.... ugh single aisle international...

With such a ‘late’ delivery (better than a ‘delayed’ vaccine program), there is plenty of time for the whispers of success/failure to filter through.

 

[MooTime]

Yea they are grabbing a few Max10’s but not until 2023.... will be used for international as well as domestic.... ugh single aisle international...

If you won't be flying Virgin anyway there's no no ugh effect for your goodself

I'm betting your profession is critical analysist. Sometimes it can pay to be positive.

 

[jase05]

Yea they are grabbing a few Max10’s but not until 2023.... will be used for international as well as domestic.... ugh single aisle international...

Most likely to NZ and Bali I’d imagine which QF also do

 

[AviatorInsight]

Before people start throwing their arms in the air saying they’ll never fly Virgin again because of the MAX order, let me just say that I’m not here to change your mind. My job is to make sure you get from A to B safely.

In fact, something that Virgin hasn’t done yet, is let the travelling public know that we will be taking on the MAX simulator by mid 2021 (some 2 whole years before the introduction of the jet). This will give us ample time to become familiar with the aircraft before we take delivery of the real thing, and believe me I will be putting the sim through its paces.

There is also no way that I would let my family travel on an aircraft (or airline!) that’s so unsafe either.

I have every confidence that given now the highly unlikely event that something goes wrong, that Australian pilots are some of the best and highly trained pilots in the world, the outcome would have been different with an Australian pilot at the controls.

Call me biased but that’s the way I see it.

Once I have my first simulator session in the MAX I will be sure to put the details in the Ask The Pilot thread and will be happy to answer any questions.

Happy flying!

 

[jakeseven7]

If you won't be flying Virgin anyway there's no no ugh effect for your goodself

I'm betting your profession is critical analysist. Sometimes it can pay to be positive..

Huh? Flew them on weekend.

 

[Lynda2475]

Boeing have fixed the software issue but no physical changes have been made to address the design issues. Call me overly cautious but i'll not be booking with any airline who use the max on any route i need to fly, as even if you book a flight on another aircraft always a risk of an aircraft change.

Whilst software issue was main contributor to crashes plenty of concern about the engine positioning affecting aerodynamics. Boeing need to go back to drawing board and design something new for this market segment, not keep trying to augment a chasis originally meant for much less powerful engines.

 

[Bagpuss]

Boeing have fixed the software issue but no physical changes have been made to address the design issues. Call me overly cautious but i'll not be booking with any airline who use the max on any route i need to fly, as even if you book a flight on another aircraft always a risk of an aircraft change.

Whilst software issue was main contributor to crashes plenty of concern about the engine positioning affecting aerodynamics. Boeing need to go back to drawing board and design something new for this market segment, not keep trying to augment a chasis originally meant for much less powerful engines.

Virgin are getting the MAX 10, it's the MAX 8 which had the 2 incidents.

Also as everyone seems to have forgotten on this subject, the first ever a320 passenger flight crashed. Though different cirumstances.

Air France Flight 296Q - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[kookaburra75]

Virgin are getting the MAX 10, it's the MAX 8 which had the 2 incidents.

Also as everyone seems to have forgotten on this subject, the first ever a320 passenger flight crashed. Though different cirumstances.

Air France Flight 296Q - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It certainly was different circumstances, "Official reports concluded that the pilots flew too low, too slow, failed to see the forest and accidentally flew into it"
But, I think as @AviatorInsight summed it up, the pilots won't be flying them unless they think the aircraft are safe (knowing what they know now), which means I won't have any issues climbing aboard. My biggest issue will be getting to the airport and hoping the airbags in the Taxi/Uber don't malfunction

Thousands of deadly Takata airbags remain on the streets of Australian cities

Over 90,000 cars with deadly Takata airbags are still on Australian roads according to the ACCC’s latest quarterly update, and more than half of these are located in just three of Australia’s largest capital cities.

www.accc.gov.au

 

[RAM]

Boeing have fixed the software issue but no physical changes have been made to address the design issues. Call me overly cautious but i'll not be booking with any airline who use the max on any route i need to fly, as even if you book a flight on another aircraft always a risk of an aircraft change.

Whilst software issue was main contributor to crashes plenty of concern about the engine positioning affecting aerodynamics. Boeing need to go back to drawing board and design something new for this market segment, not keep trying to augment a chasis originally meant for much less powerful engines.

Actually there have been physical design changes mandated as well as software changes. Straight from the "horse's mouth";

Boeing 737 MAX Updates

The official source for information on the 737-8 and 737-9 airplanes and their return to service. Get the most up-to-date and accurate information from Boeing.

www.boeing.com

How did MCAS initially work?
Prior to being enhanced, MCAS relied on information from a single Angle of Attack (AOA) sensor to monitor the angle of the airplane. In the two accidents, a single AOA sensor gave incorrect information to MCAS, which caused it to activate. In both cases, MCAS engaged repeatedly when the sensor continued to incorrectly report a high AOA.

Which is somewhat alarming in & of itself - as Boeing historically engineered multiple levels of redundancy into their planes. Sign of the times where focus on short term cost cutting to meet this half's bonus requirements leads to massive expense/problems. Textbook example (prior to this) is Toyota which was lauded as the 'company to copy' with their constant improvement program. Worked for the first decade or so but then as it was built into their team pay structures (cut costs by 1.5% PA to receive any bonus payments) - after all fruit had been picked then the cost cuts led to problems. Toyota went from one of the lowest recall rates to being amongst the worst 3 manufacturers for recalls as one stage.

B787 Max
Part of the MCAS software changes relate to the input data coming from various physical sensors (such as Pitot tubes).

The engines have not been touched (moved) - true. But other components such as the number of pitot tubes etc have been changed to increase redundancies etc.

During the course of the various regulators 'fine tooth comb' investigations they came across some unrelated issues they wanted to be fixed/addressed. Such as changing how some wiring bundles were located/fixed for example with the horizontal stabiliser.

A couple of other software changes & a mandated check before recertification for 'Foreign object debris' due to some reports of rushed construction leading to tools & other debris left within the airframe, & subsequently Boeing reporting finding FOD in some of their stored new builds.

Funny how Microsoft gets to sell billions of copies of faulty/buggy software and the consumer cops the costs for decades.

 

[oz_mark]

I don't think the number of pitot tubes or angle of attack sensors has changed, they are just using them better.

The big issue was the MCAS failure rating was classified as hazardous, which didn't need as much redundancy as it would need had it been classified as catastrophic.

 

[N860CR]

It certainly was different circumstances, "Official reports concluded that the pilots flew too low, too slow, failed to see the forest and accidentally flew into it"

Not entirely different. Certain design characteristics of the A320 led to the accident due to pilot error. Exactly could be said for both the Lion and Ethiopian accidents. Had pilots followed the unreliable airspeed and trim runaway procedures, neither would have crashed. They certainly had it stacked against them though (need for 2 memory procedures and then the complication of the MCAS)