Virgin Australia to Reconfigure 737 Fleet - Spend $110M

Just off topic but just had a chance to fly both versions of the VA B738 back to back yesterday (a 30 row aircraft with the typical purple divider and then a 31 row refurb without the purple business class divider but with new tablet holders and seatback usb) and while usb and holders are good the Y class experience on the new birds is more "horrendous" and much closer to JQ A320 than the previous VA Y B738 product.

As these new interiors become more common they are going to become the Bain of Virgin Y customers, especially for longer transcon flyers.
 
Last edited:
Just off topic but just had a chance to fly both versions of the VA B738 back to back yesterday (a 30 row aircraft with the typical purple divider and then a 31 row refurb with business class divider but with new tablet holders and seatback usb) and while usb and holders are good the Y class experience on the new birds is more "horrendous" and much closer to JQ A320 than the previous VA Y B738 product.

As these new interiors become more common they are going to become the Bain of Virgin Y customers, especially for longer transcon flyers.
Yep agreed, after all they fit 6 more empty seats. How often is VA load factor at 100%?
 
It's disappointing that row 5 will no longer be Economy X. That plus the new divider will apparently allow VA to install up to two extra regular Y rows.

Yeah - across 84 existing B737-800s and -700s (ignoring the new delivery B737-Max8s) that $1.3M per aircraft for 6 more Y seats on each aircraft adds up to an extra 504 Y seats in total. Hence, each one of those seats costs VA $218,253, now spread that across 5 sectors per day average, and say 350 operational days per year for the aircraft, and thats 882,000 available Y seat sectors for sale, so then the maths becomes how often do these last 6 Y seats get occupied? Hence, it becomes a "how many sectors hit that mythical 97% or better load factor?" question. Lets say only peak season and peak time flights (footy season peak golden triangle weekday and school holidays bali bogan runs) hit that mythical 97% load factor so maybe 25% of all possible sectors flown across the entire year will have those 6 extra seats per aircraft come into play, so that 882,00 available seat sectors are now down to say 220,000 sectors, so thats 220,000 opportunities per year to stick a paying customer in those additionally created seats so divided by the $110M capital cost, each one of those extra seat opportunities needs to collect $500 revenue (in the case where they are occupied) to carry their capital cost.

Part of the maths will also be the loss of ancillary revenue from loss of Economy X (and people sure aren't going to pay the asking price for the upfront standard preferred seating at the front of the Y cabin).

Two sets of 3 Y seats might weigh an extra 90Kg so they are hauling around an extra 90Kg of aluminum frames and seat cushions every single sector and rarely filling them, but maybe offset by the say 90Kg of weight saved by removing the hard barrier between J class and the Y cabin.

Seems pretty marginal to me but it must tick a $AS/Km metric somewhere in Bain's head office?
 
Last edited:
Yeah - across 84 existing B737-800s and -700s (ignoring the new delivery B737-Max8s) that $1.3M per aircraft for 6 more Y seats on each aircraft adds up to an extra 504 Y seats in total. Hence, each one of those seats costs VA $218,253, now spread that across 5 sectors per day average, and say 350 operational days per year for the aircraft, and thats 882,000 available Y seat sectors for sale, so then the maths becomes how often do these last 6 Y seats get occupied? Hence, it becomes a "how many sectors hit that mythical 97% or better load factor?" question. Lets say only peak season and peak time flights (footy season peak golden triangle weekday and school holidays bali bogan runs) hit that mythical 97% load factor so maybe 25% of all possible sectors flown across the entire year will have those 6 extra seats per aircraft come into play, so that 882,00 available seat sectors are now down to say 220,000 sectors, so thats 220,000 opportunities per year to stick a paying customer in those additionally created seats so divided by the $110M capital cost, each one of those extra seat opportunities needs to collect $500 revenue (in the case where they are occupied) to carry their capital cost.

Part of the maths will also be the loss of ancillary revenue from loss of Economy X (and people sure aren't going to pay the asking price for the upfront standard preferred seating at the front of the Y cabin).

Two sets of 3 Y seats might weigh an extra 90Kg so they are hauling around an extra 90Kg of aluminum frames and seat cushions every single sector and rarely filling them, but maybe offset by the say 90Kg of weight saved by removing the hard barrier between J class and the Y cabin.

Seems pretty marginal to me but it must tick a $ASK metric somewhere in Bain's head office?
Those extra row of seats over multiple years though. Many years.
Surely pay off over X years.
 
Part of the maths will also be the loss of ancillary revenue from loss of Economy X (and people sure aren't going to pay the asking price for the upfront standard preferred seating at the front of the Y cabin).
If Economy X was raking in the ancillary revenue, they wouldn't be ripping out a row of it from each aircraft.
 
If Economy X was raking in the ancillary revenue, they wouldn't be ripping out a row of it from each aircraft.
Yeah I get that also...but it's always pretty much occupied hence i assume customers buy unless everyone is Platinim. It's not as if it's actually a cost to VA to have X seats..they receive revenue from it but perhaps not as much as even basic lite fare for extra row. Funny how they strip away the value isnt it?
 
that $1.3M per aircraft for 6 more Y seats on each aircraft
Not exactly a fair way to do the math? If they want the keep the 737 going for another decade the cabin refresh will be needed regardless of whether they want to install the extra row or not. At most you can count the cost to purchase the 6 extra economy row plus additional labour to install.
 
Yeah I get that also...but it's always pretty much occupied hence i assume customers buy unless everyone is Platinim. It's not as if it's actually a cost to VA to have X seats..they receive revenue from it but perhaps not as much as even basic lite fare for extra row. Funny how they strip away the value isnt it?
To be fair even before I became platinum I was always able to get an economy X seat assigned at checkin if talking to an agent (provided a seat was available). So I’m not sure everyone is platinum or pays for it. Then you have the credit card economy X vouchers…
 
To be fair even before I became platinum I was always able to get an economy X seat assigned at checkin if talking to an agent (provided a seat was available). So I’m not sure everyone is platinum or pays for it. Then you have the credit card economy X vouchers…

That's lucky for you, but isn't my experience. Most agents would still try to charge for Economy X if I asked at check-in (assuming I was already assigned to another seat and Economy X isn't all that was left) before I was Plat.
 
That's lucky for you, but isn't my experience. Most agents would still try to charge for Economy X if I asked at check-in (assuming I was already assigned to another seat and Economy X isn't all that was left) before I was Plat.
My experience when I was Velocity Gold was that agents were happy to give me an exit row seat for free if there was one available. But they wouldn’t give me a row 3-5 seat for free.
 
That's lucky for you, but isn't my experience. Most agents would still try to charge for Economy X if I asked at check-in (assuming I was already assigned to another seat and Economy X isn't all that was left) before I was Plat.
I’d ask for a « window or aisle seat closer to the front » which worked better than outright asking for it. Exit rows were proactively offered as « are you willing an able to assist in case of evacuation if I put you in an exit row? »
 
My experience when I was Velocity Gold was that agents were happy to give me an exit row seat for free if there was one available. But they wouldn’t give me a row 3-5 seat for free.
Just following on with my personal experience when I was gold. Didn't try asking at check-in but whenever I asked in the lounge (MEL and CBR) around 60-90 mins before departure, they were always happy to assign rows 3-5 if there was still availability. This was last year though so things might have changed.
 
Funny that yet they can't be bothered with dividers to differentiate biz from Y!! ,🤔
I believe this is annoying the crew as much as it is pax in J :/

Hopefully, there will be more news on the final sky divider configuration by the end of this year.
 
IFE is finally being installed on the all-Y 737-700s. Can confirm NBV at least now has the entertainment system.

The first all-Y 700 to have Business Class fitted should also make an appearance on the network soon.
VH-NBP looks like it has been changed from KLM all Y to a J config... do we know if they got the new seat design?
Post automatically merged:

Funny that yet they can't be bothered with dividers to differentiate biz from Y!! ,🤔
8IA is done and 8IB is being done now...
 
Latest update as of 15 August is here. So, the new business seat rollout —

The ex-SilkAirs with 30 rows have them, config is C8 and Y168:
VH-IJQ and
VH-IWQ

The existing VAs, but now with 31 rows (and 1 row less of Economy X!), to be C8 and Y174 are:
VH-VOK
VH-VOL
VH-VON
VH-VOO
VH-VUE
VH-VUG
VH-VUH
VH-VUK
VH-VUL
VH-VUO
VH-VUP
VH-VUQ

Notably, it appears some Max8s have also undergone "densification" reconfigured to also have 31 rows (and 1 row less of Economy X!), to be C8 and Y174:
VH-8IA
VH-8IB

And, of course, the VA Max8s, that are still with 30 rows (for now), i.e. C8 and Y168:
VH-8IC
VH-8ID
VH-8IE
VH-8IF
VH-8IG

Also, an interesting note for the 737-700 fleet, the first ex-KLM bird has had business seats installed, to make it akin to the existing VA-fleet 737-700s with business class. So, the birds that have business as C8 and Y126 are:
VH-NBP (ex-KLM)
VH-VBY
VH-VBZ
It is unknown if they are sporting the new business seat yet.
 
VH-NBP looks like it has been changed from KLM all Y to a J config... do we know if they got the new seat design?
Post automatically merged:


8IA is done and 8IB is being done now...
8IB is done and back in service. 8IC is next.
VH-NBP (ex-KLM)
VH-VBY
VH-VBZ
It is unknown if they are sporting the new business seat yet.
Yes they have the new seats.
The ex-SilkAirs with 30 rows have them, config is C8 and Y168:
VH-IJQ and
VH-IWQ
The ex-SilkAir aircraft are in a C8Y162 layout, with no Row 12.
 
Turn business expenses into Business Class! Process $10,000 through pay.com.au to score 20,000 bonus PayRewards Points and join 30k+ savvy business owners enjoying these benefits:

- Pay suppliers who don’t take Amex
- Max out credit card rewards—even on government payments
- Earn & Transfer PayRewards Points to 8+ top airline & hotel partners

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top