Virgin does it again - will no longer fly with them

[ozstamps]

Flight staff aside, it seems clear to me Jayney & Co have heavily reduced Plat Line staffers, as nothing ever seems to be possible to them in my experience, in the past 6 months or so. A year or two back they were superb IMHO.

The simplest things are now hived off to a Dalek in Asia who spends a polite hour reading off scripts, and resolving NOTHING usually. Which actually costs Virgin more no matter how little they pay them, AND leaving an annoyed regular client. Dumb as dirt.

Yes a cost 'saving' on paper but if simple things take Plats an HOUR to now resolve, very short sighted.

United stated once that about 90% of their revenue came from their 5% top Elites. No idea how that translates to Tiger #2, but if anything near it, they are foolish to pretend all animals are equal, as it will bite them on the bum eventually.

I was a United 1K for 10-15 years and ANYTHING humanely possible can and was done in a phone call, by empowered experienced agents. I must have been given a hundred 'one time exceptions'. THAT is why folks stayed loyal.

I had an allegedly 'empowered' CS staffer in Brisbane, not overseas, last week telling me no seats were bookable before row 7, on a flight a month hence. I told him on my screen 5 ENTIRE rows before #7 looked totally empty on a dummy booking I just made. 'Not on my screen, it doesn't show that Sir'. With an audible SIGH, he bad-naturedly chose one to book after I pushed him, and VIOLA 'Gee, fancy that - you were right'.

This is Aeroflot stuff. Once a year flyers might cop this lazy nonsense, but trying lies with regular fliers is plain dumb.

 

[dajop]

Australia is the land of the duopoly, it is fantasy to expect anything different from either VA or QF/JQ unless they face regulatory consequences ala EU261. QF/JQ and VA have settled into a cosy little co-existence where both can put up middle fingers at their customers and it really doesn't matter one iota, as the alternatives are few ... Rex is still only a niche operator despite slowly building some jet services and Bonza seems to have a strategy on avoiding direct competition with either group wherever possible.

Take it or drive?

 

[Bagpuss]

I had an allegedly 'empowered' CS staffer in Brisbane, not Bangladesh, last week telling me no seats were bookable before row 7, on a flight a month hence. I told him on my screen 5 ENTIRE rows before #7 looked totally empty on a dummy booking I just made. 'Not on my screen, it doesn't show that Sir'. With an audible SIGH, he bad-naturedly chose one to book after I pushed him, and VIOLA 'Gee, fancy that - you were right'.

Why didn't you just select the seats using the app / website?

 

[ozstamps]

Why didn't you just select the seats using the app / website?

We are truly surrounded by Einsteins here.

BECAUSE the ever helpful Virgin website said - 'contact our phone agents to change these seats.' Never seen that one before? - lucky YOU.

Anything else you'd like to know about my travel plans?

 

[Saab34]

Australia is the land of the duopoly, it is fantasy to expect anything different from either VA or QF/JQ unless they face regulatory consequences ala EU261. QF/JQ and VA have settled into a cosy little co-existence where both can put up middle fingers at their customers and it really doesn't matter one iota, as the alternatives are few ... Rex is still only a niche operator despite slowly building some jet services and Bonza seems to have a strategy on avoiding direct competition with either group wherever possible.

Take it or drive?

Which is why I want to see some new consumer laws introduced with airlines. Now, the minute they do this just watch all these monopoly players start whinging and moaning.

 

[Bagpuss]

We are truly surrounded by Einsteins here.

BECAUSE the even helpful Virgin website said - 'contact our phone agents to change these seats.' Never seen that one before - lucky YOU.

Anything else you'd like to know?

This thread is nothing to do with a system outage and in your post there is nothing to suggest you were doing this during an outage. Hence the question.

 

[antycbr]

Having enjoyed QF lying to me about delays and then not prioritising pax bags from the delayed flight at AKL I’ll stick to VA thanks.

Qantas incompetence this morning has meant a three hour flight has taken ten.

It’s not the delays it’s the lies.

 

[Bagpuss]

My simple take on all this is that it's an issue with all airlines at the moment. From staffing issues, to cost issues and likely that planes were hibernated for a long time causing a ripple of issues.

The situation is made worse by the pent up demands of flying and the higher costs paid for airfares.

We should remain thankful that we're all alive and well.

 

[ozstamps]

Which is why I want to see some new consumer laws introduced with airlines. Now, the minute they do this just watch all these monopoly players start whinging and moaning.

Yes that will shake them up a LOT. Three-hour type delays that COST them a ton of real money in Compo as with many first world countries (for many years past) will focus their minds a little more.

 

[jakeseven7]

VA are having major issues crewing aircraft of late which is why their operational performance is really starting to drop.

There was also an exodus of staff out of the Brisbane base, reports of about 50 crew resigning! Reportedly unhappy with culture, conditions and pay.

 

[Vic]

We are truly surrounded by Einsteins here.

BECAUSE the even helpful Virgin website said - 'contact our phone agents to change these seats.' Never seen that one before - lucky YOU.

Anything else you'd like to know?

Sounds like my Qantas phone call experience today - can't change a return from NZ online, call to make changes. I want to change the return leg from 1 December to 2 December, exact same flights NZ to Oz via SYD. Dummy booking showing $1250 for the exact flights I want. I already paid about $700, so in theory fare difference $550.
Call centre - sorry there is no economy on the second leg only business - so $1049 fare difference.

Dude, your problem happens with Qantas as well.

For those following at home, on 2 December I'm doing a return back to Sydney for $680 with VA. So I'm probably ahead considering I don't need an extra hotel night in NZ... lol

 

[kangarooflyer88]

If you won't fly an airline again that changes flights, you wont be flying at all. I think you'll find JQ and QF no better in this regard.

Completely agree. I've flown Air Canada, KLM, Qantas, Virgin, JetStar and United. Can you guess which one didn't have a flight change? That's right, United but it was just one flight I took with them and I was still delayed for over 2 hours at SFO (luckily that gave me more time to enjoy the Centurion lounge). Look airlines are ramping back up to pre-COVID capacity whilst the demand for travel is insatiable now that people are free to leave their homes. It will take some time for things to smooth out.

What I continue to ask people on this forum is how are you enjoying it? How are you taking advantage of this change? Did you manage to get a better routing that earns more status credits (or a shorter one if that's your preference)? Did you manage to force Qantas to open a business classic award for you when one of their partners dropped the ball? Or maybe you cancelled that flight you booked on impulse but don't want to take now that the airline will provide you with a full refund? Because believe me, eventually the airlines will figure this out and all the fun we are having at the airline's expense with them changing schedules and cancelling flights will be over!

Also, as you booked with an agent, you must go though them, not the airline to make any changes.

You used a travel agent! Why are you ringing anyone? Make the agent do the work.
And why are you suggesting changing to Jetstar if the virgin flight you really wanted is still available?

Hopefully ZL will be much better, we can only hope.

Haven't flown Rex, it's certainly on the list of airlines to try although I reckon not everyone would be a fan of the propellers (I know they have a couple of jets but I'm just keeping it here)

First, DL, maybe more positive news, who knows.

It would be nice if they become a DL partner in terms of MQM accrual but I doubt that'll ever happen. Too small of a fish for DL I reckon!

VA/VFF was very good in the past, but I guess with them now cost cutting like the Redroo, its all downhill for them from now on.

When your competition is known for damaging a disabled person's wheelchair and refusing to pay for the damage, frankly you have a long way to climb down before you reach their level. Combine that with the rave reviews on AFF and elsewhere and it seems like the PR campaign went well indeed. It's much easier to put on a show for a couple of months than to maintain a brand image in the long run, just ask Eli Lilly!

I haven't had to call up their FF call centre of late, but for me, personally, the all Y 737s is their downfall.

Join the club - I'm still waiting for Virgin to refund me the upgrade I made for a flight they later cancelled!

Flight staff aside, it seems clear to me Jayney & Co have heavily reduced Plat Line staffers, as nothing ever seems to be possible to them in my experience, in the past 6 months or so. A year or two back they were superb IMHO.

It doesn't help that they were running a status match now where any Tom Dick n' Harry can become a Platinum.

The simplest things are now hived off to a Dalek in Asia who spends a polite hour reading off scripts, and resolving NOTHING usually. Which actually costs Virgin more no matter how little they pay them, AND leaving an annoyed regular client. Dumb as dirt.

My last call with them was cringe, kept getting yo-yoed between departments when requesting a refund for a flight Virgin cancelled.

United stated once that about 90% of their revenue came from their 5% top Elites. No idea how that translates to Tiger #2, but if anything near it, they are foolish to pretend all animals are equal, as it will bite them on the bum eventually.

Have you seen Tom Stuker (United's #1 frequent flyer having flown well over 20 million miles with them)? I have in 2019 having flown Heathrow to Chicago. I was in the Polaris lounge and he was on the phone the whole damn time talking to United reps making bookings and changes to flights months in advance. I can guarantee you United is not offended by him tying up probably on of their best reservationists for hours on end given the amount of $$$$ he spends with them (Tom flies pretty much only United and in Polaris).

I was a United 1K for 10-15 years and ANYTHING humanely possible can and was done in a phone call, by empowered experienced agents. I must have been given a hundred 'one time exceptions'. THAT is why folks stayed loyal.

My experience as well. Heck a Global Services (equivalent to Chariman's club) agent even offered to rebook my flight from Osaka back to Toronto on Air Canada when he thought I was gonna be on too many connections (for those wondering, the flight I was on was upgraded by a colleague who is Global Services elite).

I had an allegedly 'empowered' CS staffer in Brisbane, not overseas, last week telling me no seats were bookable before row 7, on a flight a month hence. I told him on my screen 5 ENTIRE rows before #7 looked totally empty on a dummy booking I just made. 'Not on my screen, it doesn't show that Sir'. With an audible SIGH, he bad-naturedly chose one to book after I pushed him, and VIOLA 'Gee, fancy that - you were right'.

In fairness, Qantas does block those first few rows for Platinum elites or above. They release those seats for others at T-80 hours from departure.

Australia is the land of the duopoly, it is fantasy to expect anything different from either VA or QF/JQ unless they face regulatory consequences ala EU261.

At least you folks have a duopoly. Over in Canada it's Air Canada or the highway (yes I know there's WestJet but the route network would make Rex blush).

As for consumer regulation you need to demand it of your politicians. It's not gonna happen by itself. Why is it that Canada, the United States and the EU have stronger consumer rights when it comes to everything from warranties to being bumped off a flight?

Having enjoyed QF lying to me about delays and then not prioritising pax bags from the delayed flight at AKL I’ll stick to VA thanks.

Airlines can't prioritize bags though. I say this from experience having flown a number of airlines both in business and coach, with elite status and without. Frankly that bag carousel should be painted red and black because it's a roulette wheel when and if your bag comes out!

Qantas incompetence this morning has meant a three hour flight has taken ten.

I'd recommend you try Air Canada reservationist in Toronto where they tell you your flight is cancelled there's nothing we can do (not even rebook you).

It’s not the delays it’s the lies.

One nice thing about United is when there are delays they tell you why it is being delayed. It doesn't eliminate the delay but it sure removes some of the sting!

-RooFlyer88

 

[ozstamps]

Have you seen Tom Stuker (United's #1 frequent flyer having flown well over 20 million miles with them)? I have in 2019 having flown Heathrow to Chicago. I was in the Polaris lounge and he was on the phone the whole damn time talking to United reps making bookings and changes to flights months in advance. I can guarantee you United is not offended by him tying up probably on of their best reservationists for hours on end given the amount of $$$$ he spends with them (Tom flies pretty much only United and in Polaris).

My experience as well. Heck a Global Services (equivalent to Chariman's club) agent even offered to rebook my flight from Osaka back to Toronto on Air Canada when he thought I was gonna be on too many connections (for those wondering, the flight I was on was upgraded by a colleague who is Global Services elite).

-RooFlyer88

Yes have met Tom. I recall United threw a huge function for him when he hit the 15 or 20 million MILE mark. They were real BIS miles, not with any tier or class bonuses. I thought my 2 million UA miles was hard work! CEO of UA was there at airport and all top brass, and much media etc.

THEIR United 1K/GS phone agents can and do perform MIRACLES every minute of every day. We were stuck in Buenos Aires at Xmas once, on upgraded coach ticket stock using UA Systemwide Certs, due to some glitch of theirs, and HAD to be back at work here in 36 hours.

All fights were booked out of their minds for Xmas travel. Expert Flyer showed flights 100% full front to back. Agent looked at the record, agreed it was entirely their fault, and 5 mins of typing later, had us 100% HK2 in confirmed FIRST Class sleeper suites, EZE-IAD-SFO-SYD. She forced them from revenue inventory buckets. About 40 hours and $30,000 each of flying on $1,500 tickets.

Poor old Tiger #2 offshore staffers can barely manage to assign seats at times - see above. Near zero enpowerment sadly. The word 'Platinum' has no special meaning in there anymore seems clear. Very short sighted, but this era is all about fattening up the Lamb for a sale or market listing, so Jayney and cohorts can all walk away with mega bonus millions.

Virgin can certainly do better MANY times at a keystroke. 'Do they want to' is the clear question. If it 'costs' them a cent, the answer lately is generally no.

Maybe they will wise up, and maybe they will race further to the bottom to Jayney's beloved Jetstar's model - time will tell.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Yes have met Tom. I recall United threw a huge function for him when he hit the 15 or 20 million MILE mark. They were real BIS miles, not with any tier or class bonuses. I thought my 2 million UA miles was hard work! CEO of UA was there at airport and all top brass, and much media etc.

I wouldn't say I 'met' Tom. He was on the phone the whole time I was in the Polaris lounge and frankly I was more interested in trying the restaurant in the lounge than hanging around the general seating area. But yeah, he's the real deal. It's a pity that United now requires spending $$$ to earn status where prior to 2020 it was all BIS for us non-US residents! Now I've status matched to Delta (which still only requires BIS to earn status) so we'll see how they fare.

THEIR United 1K/GS phone agents can and do perform MIRACLES every minute of every day. We were stuck in Buenos Aires at Xmas once, on upgraded coach ticket stock using UA Systemwide Certs, due to some glitch of theirs, and HAD to be back at work here in 36 hours.

Not just the phone agents, the customer service at the airport too. I recall flying from San Diego back to Toronto (via Chicago). If you've ever flown to or through Chicago you know the weather can be nuts at times. This was no exception. Flight into Chicago was in holding pattern for an hour before diverting to Madison to refuel. End up getting landing late and almost certain I missed my connection. Fortunately all flights out were delayed and made the connection. Head out to the runway and have to turn back because TCAS malfunction and since it's 2 AM everyone's timed out anyway. Head to customer service desk and maybe five minutes later I'm given $100 in food vouchers, hotel voucher, taxi voucher, a business class ticket on Air Canada back to Toronto for the morning. No arguing, or anything. Keep in mind I was travelling on United First simply from a complimentary upgrade as being a newly minted United Premier Gold.

Another story, flying United Express from Denver up to Toronto, again business class (from an upgrade cert). Flight got delayed because Denver weather. Anyway, captain was very attentive gave us updates the whole time. Purser kept my PDB topped up whilst we waited to leave for Toronto. Good meal and warm service by the crew. This is something frankly you wouldn't expect on a CRJ up to Toronto.

All fights were booked out of their minds for Xmas travel. Expert Flyer showed flights 100% full front to back. Agent looked at the record, agreed it was entirely their fault, and 5 mins of typing later, had us 100% HK2 in confirmed FIRST Class sleeper suites, EZE-IAD-SFO-SYD. She forced them from revenue inventory buckets. About 40 hours and $30,000 each of flying on $1,500 tickets.

I will point out that United ain't the only one that does this. I spent $2800 CAD back in April 2020 to buy 160,000 Aeroplan miles so that I can book business class "award" between Sydney and Toronto on Air Canada. Then you know what happened. In the interim my flights got cancelled and changed over a dozen times. At every point the Air Canada agent had flexibility to rebook me into whatever would get me to where I needed to be. At one point (mid-2021) I was booked to fly Sydney to Toronto via Abu Dhabi and Zurich on Etihad/Air Canada. Then for the return it was Air Canada and United back to Sydney. No big deal you think. Well, the United flight wasn't booked out of the saver award bucket, the reservationist actually had to buy a J ticket from UA (requiring her to get approval from AC before buying said ticket). Again, these folks will move mountains for you. Not so sure the same can be said about QF or VA.

Poor old Tiger #2 offshore staffers can barely manage to assign seats at times - see above. Near zero enpowerment sadly. The word 'Platinum' has no special meaning in there anymore seems clear. Very short sighted, but this era is all about fattening up the Lamb for a sale or market listing, so Jayney and cohorts can all walk away with mega bonus millions.

Customer service is a big issue both at airports and at the call centres. What I will say is that airlines who say we'll hire more staff don't understand the problem. It's not simply a number of staff issue (causing long hold times), it's a competency issue. If the agent you have who is supposed to represent your brand to customers can't tell the difference between cancel and reissue and ends up borking a passenger's reservation, shame on you. If the customer then tries to call the airline only to be told there is nothing they can do, shame on the customer for choosing to fly with that airline!

Virgin can certainly do better MANY times at a keystroke. 'Do they want to' is the clear question. If it 'costs' them a cent, the answer lately is generally no.

For many companies it is hard to make an argument to spend an extra cent on a customer if they can't directly attribute it to additional revenue. And I think the beancounters have won here in saving a cent of cost to give up many thousands of dollars in future revenue.

Maybe they will wise up, and maybe they will race further to the bottom to Jayney's beloved Jetstar's model - time will tell.

You omit the possibility of a JetStar- service where business class customers have to pay for seats and meals!

-RooFlyer88

 

[ozstamps]

VA have totally vetoed spending a few bucks on newspapers or any magazines in lounges nationally, or in business cabins (which they get near free from publishers) - more Tiger #2 thinking tightwad nickel and diming.

They generally do the very simple things BADLY.

Sydney kerbside lounge entry is still a daily lottery - even now no-one, staff included, has a CLUE when it is or is not open. They make it up each day it seems. A HUGE and welcome benefit to top Elites and paid Biz pax when it works, they have screwed up badly all year.

Just TEN or 20 extra paid biz tickets a day covers security staffing costs. No brainer to any savvy management. Force them into the Mayhem Bogan Zoo and you just lost them.

Have near missed 2 flights over this madness in the past month, as the only other option is the disorganised 20 minute delay heaving Zoo of Jetstar and Rex passengers downstairs at some times of day.

 

[Inlander]

I was booked Adelaide-Brisbane(VA1395- 1255pm dept time)) for Feb 2023 in J and they changed it a couple of weeks ago to a Fokker 100, no email, or message i just discovered it looking at the app.

 

[antycbr]

VA have totally vetoed spending a few bucks on newspapers or any magazines in lounges nationally, or in business cabins (which they get near free from publishers) - more Tiger #2 thinking tightwad nickel and diming.

I personally will miss “Mining Industry Monthly” or “W*nker: The Yacht Magazine”

Note that magazines across the board are dying. Having a particular newspaper over another can be considered a political statement. I’ve flown SQ, AC business and none of them have magazines or papers.

 

[Vic]

VA have totally vetoed spending a few bucks on newspapers or any magazines in lounges nationally, or in business cabins (which they get near free from publishers) - more Tiger #2 thinking tightwad nickel and diming.

[snip]

Have near missed 2 flights over this madness in the past month, as the only other option is the disorganised 20 minute delay heaving Zoo of Jetstar and Rex passengers downstairs at some times of day.

If you think only virgin have 'vetoed' newspapers, maybe you better head over to terminal three and check out the option that you've not listed...

 

[jase05]

Airlines can't prioritize bags though. I say this from experience having flown a number of airlines both in business and coach, with elite status and without. Frankly that bag carousel should be painted red and black because it's a roulette wheel when and if your bag comes out!

Over 40 J flights on VA in 2022 and bags have been in the first dozen or so in nearly all of them. A couple of flights we had to wait a few minutes so no big deal. To be fair to QF though in the 30 odd J flights with them this year I’d say I’m running about 75% with a couple of flights getting my bags near the end and over Easter not getting my bags at all for a couple of days

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Sydney kerbside lounge entry is still a daily lottery - even now no-one, staff included, has a CLUE when it is or is not open. They make it up each day it seems. A HUGE and welcome benefit to top Elites and paid Biz pax when it works, they have screwed up badly all year.

That's another big miss if you ask me, is consistency in delivering a service. Now look, I know I've moaned about the state of QF lounges, but you know what? I know what I'm getting when I fly them. I know that when I go to T3 there will be a priority security lane, there will be a lounge open when my QF flight departs (at least for most AU airports). Sure the quality of the service can vary between airports (i.e. BNE vs SYD Domestic for instance) but I know I'm getting a level of service that recognizes my loyalty.

Just TEN or 20 extra paid biz tickets a day covers security staffing costs. No brainer to any savvy management. Force them into the Mayhem Bogan Zoo and you just lost them.

Never mind business class tickets, what about those in economy who have status due to loyalty to the airline (i.e. Gold and Platinum)? Many employers will only book most of their employees into Y, especially for domestic travel and for them things like lounges, priority security lanes and other such details actually matter, particularly when the employer doesn't care if you fly Virgin vs Qantas! Case in point, next month I'm travelling "domestically" to CHC on business and when booking travel through the portal my options were a QF flight or a NZ flight. Naturally I picked QF over NZ since it would help me earn status with QF and that I've got status with them meaning access to the INTL J lounge and priority services. Airlines love to claim that they make most of their profits on the lucrative J market, but I would argue that close second would be business travellers who fly in Y regularly, often having to book tickets at the last minute for top dollar.

If you are flying out SYD several times per week, why on god's green earth would you even bother with Virgin? 20 or 30 minutes hanging out in queue over the course of all those trips really ads up and frankly you can't do anything when you are queueing up in a line. Sure you can skim your smartphone but you're nowhere near as productive as being in a lounge on your laptop, taking a call with a client and yelling at full volume so everyone in the lounge knows who you are!

Have near missed 2 flights over this madness in the past month, as the only other option is the disorganised 20 minute delay heaving Zoo of Jetstar and Rex passengers downstairs at some times of day.

When the security line stretches down the stairs of T2 @ SYD you know you are in serious trouble!

I personally will miss “Mining Industry Monthly” or “W*nker: The Yacht Magazine”

The big issues with Mining Industry Monthly, I hear was that every issue included a complimentary high-vis jacket. As you could imagine all that added weight didn't make much economical sense for the airline.

Over 40 J flights on VA in 2022 and bags have been in the first dozen or so in nearly all of them. A couple of flights we had to wait a few minutes so no big deal. To be fair to QF though in the 30 odd J flights with them this year I’d say I’m running about 75% with a couple of flights getting my bags near the end and over Easter not getting my bags at all for a couple of days

I know I'll probably jinx myself when I say this but having taken now close to 200 flights with a number of airlines: United, Qantas, JetStar, KLM, Air Canada, ANA, Air New Zealand, Delta, American, BA, RyanAir, Swiss, EgyptAir, etc. I haven't once had a bag gone "missing". I would estimate probably about half of my flights involved a checked bag of some sort. The fact that Virgin is losing bags on top is crazy.

-RooFlyer88