Virgin "enhances" redemptions, changes to points + pay

[AdMEL]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

As someone who has no status and a lot of points, I would prefer the previous fantastic offer of $180 + 6,900 MEL-PER and it is very disappointing this has been changed without mention (though I think it was a mistake in the first place, even if Virgin knew about it, especially from this forum!).

Having said that, thanks Michael D for pointing out that the current deal is still pretty good! $299 + 3,280 points + bonus 80 SC! Effectively $120 for 80SC - $1.50/SC - pretty good! I may even be able to get status! Probably only silver though!

 

[Bofter]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Was looking back at a few of the flights I had fortunately booked before this change, and for one of them on the slider page I got:
41928 Points + $undefined AUD

In a different browser in a different account I got:
15759 Points + $NaN AUD (before I played with the slider)
15759 Points + $undefined AUD (after I played with the slider)

Is there room for hope? This was for a couple of PER-OOL options on 27 June 2012

Unfortunately for flights where I had enough points for the redemption (MEL-OOL in one browser/account, MEL-SYD in another browser/account) the slider was behaving as it has been for others. Trying MEL-BME (a connecting flight without enough points in the account) replicated the PER-OOL error.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Pretty much on par, although QF taxes / fees are generally a bit more (ie $74 taxes/fees on CNS-SYD with QF, in comparison to $44 on DJ).

https://www.velocityrewards.com.au/content/Redeem/Airlines/PointsTables/index.htm

Frequent Flyer - Using Points - Qantas & Partner Classic Awards - Points Tables

So if the new burn rate is "pretty much on par" with QF, than what about the earn rate? With QF minimum point guarantee, for me on my budget short hops, QF are about 30% better even after my DJ gold bonus. On a sample BNE-PER discount economy trip, QF points awarded would be about 125% better. Where's the equality in that?

Not to mention since DJ seem to be emulating QF a lot lately, are we now going to get points and perhaps SCs on the (J)ASA's, oh and let's not forget SCs being awarded per sector??????

For those who say we had no notice of this, I think you're wrong. We've know about it for some time......my only stuff-up was I thought it had already occurred in Feb. Didn't the burn rate change marginally back then?

 

[markis10]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

So if the new burn rate is "pretty much on par" with QF, than what about the earn rate? With QF minimum point guarantee, for me on my budget short hops, QF are about 30% better even after my DJ gold bonus. On a sample BNE-PER discount economy trip, QF points awarded would be about 125% better. Where's the equality in that?

Not to mention since DJ seem to be emulating QF a lot lately, are we now going to get points and perhaps SCs on the (J)ASA's, oh and let's not forget SCs being awarded per sector??????

For those who say we had no notice of this, I think you're wrong. We've know about it for some time......my only stuff-up was I thought it had already occurred in Feb. Didn't the burn rate change marginally back then?

The burn rate did not change in Feb as such, it's just that they changed the redemption from PE levels to J levels to match the change in class. As for comparisons between QF and DJ on earn, low fare bookings tend to favor QF on a lot of routes, however late or business type bookings it's a different story, for instance GLT BNE this Friday, fly QF and you will get 1000 points for your $500!

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

The burn rate did not change in Feb as such, it's just that they changed the redemption from PE levels to J levels to match the change in class.

Ah yes, that's what I was thinking about..........so what's the basis for this change then? To match QF? Because they can? I don't get it. It seems way to great a change. What's your thoughts markis10......a bold but justified change, a mistake, or something different?

 

[TonyHancock]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

1. Book a Flexi fare
2. Upgrade using points. Currently Flexi -> J is 1/2 the usual points.

I kinda wished you hadn't posted that!!!

This has been my strategy from day one. (Obviously the 50% reduction in points was not in place then.) Firstly I used the complimentary upgrades - on the longer flights. PER-MEL. Then I used points to upgrade flexi fares. I have only flown Y once since my status match but have never paid for J. I'm not sure this is what VA/DJ wants but it sure as hell works for me.

I have flown MEL-LHR-MEL in J on a VA codeshare and that topped the points up nicely and provided a big boost in SC's. DJ/VA platinum is worth having for domestic travel so I plan to maintain it as long as the DJ/VA service/offer remains as it is.....and QF continue to offer shoddy service to me.

 

[smit0847]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Wow.

As the OP of this thread I am really disappointed by this news. Although I also expect the original 6,900 min points was always a mistake (in our favour), its a sad day for this thread to see such a dramatic change with no warning from VA.

I still struggle to see the value in the full price J product. All over this board people have been saying the J cabins are not full and those in them are either corporate accounts (i.e. work pays) or people using points. I havent heard people saying 'I paid full price for J and it was worth it'. My min-points trip in J was wonderful for 6,900 + $40 but there is absolutely no way I would pay $499 for it because it's simply not worth it for short trips. I don't understand if VA have the J product to: a) entice corporate J accounts to move over from QF, b) entice people to pay full-price for J themselves, or c) make it the most attractive part of their FF program by encouraging people to use points to experience it. I suspect the answer is a) as they stated they wanted 10% of Qantas's corporate pax. 10% is not going to full 8 seats on a 737.

This change really makes me wonder about the viability of the short-haul (i.e. sub 3 hours) J legs on VA - I dont see why or how people will pay full J price and now there is little value or point in using points. The half-price upgrade is not going to last forever. So many corporate J policies are Y for under 3 hours which is well over 50% of VAs routes.

The flexi-fares are also unattractive to someone like me who flies often but books well in advance as they are usually significantly more expensive than QF e-deals for essentially the same product.

For me personally, as a self-funded consistent Silver with (now) lots of points to burn, this is easily the worst change VA has implemented.



So, back to the drawing board. what is now the best value use of Velocity points?

 

[Virgin Bart]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Wow.

As the OP of this thread I am really disappointed by this news. Although I also expect the original 6,900 min points was always a mistake (in our favour), its a sad day for this thread to see such a dramatic change with no warning from VA.

I still struggle to see the value in the full price J product. All over this board people have been saying the J cabins are not full and those in them are either corporate accounts (i.e. work pays) or people using points. I havent heard people saying 'I paid full price for J and it was worth it'. My min-points trip in J was wonderful for 6,900 + $40 but there is absolutely no way I would pay $499 for it because it's simply not worth it for short trips. I don't understand if VA have the J product to: a) entice corporate J accounts to move over from QF, b) entice people to pay full-price for J themselves, or c) make it the most attractive part of their FF program by encouraging people to use points to experience it. I suspect the answer is a) as they stated they wanted 10% of Qantas's corporate pax. 10% is not going to full 8 seats on a 737.

This change really makes me wonder about the viability of the short-haul (i.e. sub 3 hours) J legs on VA - I dont see why or how people will pay full J price and now there is little value or point in using points. The half-price upgrade is not going to last forever. So many corporate J policies are Y for under 3 hours which is well over 50% of VAs routes.

The flexi-fares are also unattractive to someone like me who flies often but books well in advance as they are usually significantly more expensive than QF e-deals for essentially the same product.

For me personally, as a self-funded consistent Silver with (now) lots of points to burn, this is easily the worst change VA has implemented.



So, back to the drawing board. what is now the best value use of Velocity points?

I agree completely.

I really think we need to hear from the Virgin rep on this asap.

 

[markis10]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Ah yes, that's what I was thinking about..........so what's the basis for this change then? To match QF? Because they can? I don't get it. It seems way to great a change. What's your thoughts markis10......a bold but justified change, a mistake, or something different?

I think it is fixing a mistake thats been there for close to a year, while I have enjoyed taking advantage of it, I am not surprised its now gone, which is a pity as it means that once again DJ have lost a compelling reason to earn and burn points with them, putting Velocity points back in the hardly worth it bucket. Will it change my habits, yes, I will now once again divert non flying points earn elsewhere!

 

[Virgin Bart]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

I think it is fixing a mistake thats been there for close to a year, while I have enjoyed taking advantage of it, I am not surprised its now gone, which is a pity as it means that once again DJ have lost a compelling reason to earn and burn points with them, putting Velocity points back in the hardly worth it bucket. Will it change my habits, yes, I will now once again divert non flying points earn elsewhere!

Once again, I agree markis10, but I think this is far too significant a change to make so quickly and without any warning. We've gone from incredible value, to what is IMO poor value in an instant. It throws off a lot of people, makes a lot of people quite angry about changes to future plans (albeit unbooked plans).

 

[markis10]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

FWIW if you can get the slider to change to undefined the booking gets processed and just uses whatever point you have!

 

[oz_mark]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Once again, I agree markis10, but I think this is far too significant a change to make so quickly and without any warning. We've gone from incredible value, to what is IMO poor value in an instant. It throws off a lot of people, makes a lot of people quite angry about changes to future plans (albeit unbooked plans).

All that has happened is that the minimum thresholds have changed, and you can't wind the points back as far as you could. We all like cheap business class fares, but sadly this is no longer an avenue for getting those fares.

Having said that, there still seem to be some good value business class fares available for redemption, just perhaps not on the inter capital city routes.

Edit: Although the cheapies are still there if you look far enough into the future.

 

[AdMEL]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

FWIW if you can get the slider to change to undefined the booking gets processed and just uses whatever point you have!

Interesting! Another glitch! Slider just needs to be moved off the low point and it changes to undefined!

How much does your credit card get charged?

 

[markis10]

Interesting! Another glitch! Slider just needs to be moved off the low point and it changes to undefined!

How much does your credit card get charged?

Depends on the flight you pick but I had a copay of $60 on a Mel BNE in J.

 

[AdMEL]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Depends on the flight you pick but I had a copay of $60 on a Mel BNE in J.

Are you saying that when the amount is undefined, it will charge your card what it would have for the number of points you have, based on when the min. points was 6,900? It's a bit of a risk to take - given the amount is undefined, they could charge your card any amount! Also, they could cancel the ticket!

 

[markis10]

Are you saying that when the amount is undefined, it will charge your card what it would have for the number of points you have, based on when the min. points was 6,900? It's a bit of a risk to take - given the amount is undefined, they could charge your card any amount! Also, they could cancel the ticket!

Thats what is happening, you can check the $$ by putting in a credit card that will decline.

 

[wafliron]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Been thinking about this change a bit overnight... my take is:

1) The change in burn rates is disappointing, but not surprising: the value it offered previously was ridiculous (as I posted earlier in this thread, 17.5c/point for a MEL-DPS in J). I was expecting Virgin to adjust these burn rates at some stage, but I had been hoping they'd still keep them at a level that offered significantly better value than QF. With the magnitude of the change they've ended up worse than QF when you take into account that QF has ASAs, better earn rates (depending upon your type of travel, but I'd say QF would be better for most), etc. Still, setting burn rates is simply a commercial decision for Virgin, and whilst it might influence my decisions to travel / not travel with them, redeem card points to their FF program, etc, I can't hold it against them.

2) The fact that the changes were made without any sort of advance warning / announcement / grace period is simply unacceptable. As we can see by this thread, people have been earning Velocity points, redeeming their valuable credit card points to Velocity, etc, in the expectation that they could book fares at the old burn rates. Not to mention people like myself who had planned a couple of bookings but hadn't rushed them as I had assumed I'd get some sort of warning if things were to change. With the unannounced changes we have all been been left completely high-and-dry.

At least in my case I haven't "wasted" any CC points redeeming to Velocity, but if I had already redeemed a significant amount (which I was going to do in the next day or two!) I'd be absolutely livid rather than just angry / unimpressed.


Also, with regards to many people commenting that the old burn rates were a mistake, I agree that they probably were. However, when a business makes a mistake with regards to pricing it is reasonable to expect that they will promptly fix it, and acknowledge it as a mistake. When Virgin chose to leave the "incorrect" burn rates in place for a long time (how long has it been? 6 months? 12 months?) it is reasonable for a customer to assume that they are, in fact, correct, and assume they won't be pulled without any warning.

So all-in-all, big fail for you Virgin. Run your business how you see fit and change your burn rates if you want to, but don't do it in a way that treats your customers / frequent flyers with contempt, wastes their CC points and imposes unncessary / unexpected costs onto them. No announcement / grace period of a change like this is incredibly short-sighted as well, as it will probably going to cost you money: I, for one, was about to start directing all my business travel to Virgin, but I certainly won't be now. And whilst I'm sure winning / losing my travel is of no concern to Virgin in isolation, I'm sure others will be making similar choices.

PS: Mods, can I suggest maybe spinning off the posts about this reduction in burn rates into a separate thread? I think this deserves it's own thread with an appropriate title, partly as a reminder to Virgin that people are mad about the change, and more importantly, so that it's easier for any Virgin flyers on AFF who aren't subscribed to this thread to find our about the change (given all these posts are buried deep in a thread whose title is somewhat OT for the contents of these posts).

 

[Moopere]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

I agree with you wafliron. Its particularly cheeky for them to swiftly change the burn rate during a large and well utilised Amex promotion (+15% for velocity is it?). I wasn't far off transferring a fair chunk of my MR points and would be far from impressed if I had.

Its almost certainly going to affect the inflow of FF points to their business as people change their strategies again. I was starting to get lazy actually, and not even look up QF flights any more - just assuming I'd be flying DJ. Now, again, I have to do extra work and at least look at QF burn/pricing.

For me, over here in the west, the flexi upgrade thing will probably work and the pricing/points is going to work out to be more expensive but probably manageable. I have some lingering worries about getting stuck with a flexi that won't upgrade though ... probably I've have to phone first to ensure upgrade availability before booking online ... that should work out well for their call centre and me wasting my time (sigh...)

 

[MichaelD]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

Just put my money where my mouth is and booked;

MEL-OOL
BNE-MEL

for 3 people as Flexi + upgrade

Nett Costs
$1419.00 cash burned
3750 points burned
240 status credits earned (1 x double SCs)

Since I value points and SCs very highly indeed as they enable J leisure travel, I think this is a great rate, and to one destination where Qantas does not have J. The only mild annoyance is having to ring up to upgrade, but the call was pleasant.

Frankly - I think Flexi + a few points is an extremely fair price for effectively unlimited J travel.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: Very cheap business class points + pay redemptions

with regards to many people commenting that the old burn rates were a mistake, I agree that they probably were.

The old burn rates were no mistake. We're kidding ourselves to think otherwise.

Why do I say that? Simple. DJ monitors this forum extensively....it's been one of their triumphs so they most definitely knew about the generous burn rate appreciation here. Secondly, they adjusted the burn rate to reflect the change from PE to J, just a month ago. Had it been a mistake, they would have made the correction then and there. No, it was no mistake. It was part of the DJ marketing at that time. Now that marketing programme appears finished and we're seeing a number of these QF style enhancements. Makes me wonder if DJ have reached the targets they wanted and are now experimenting with what the market will bear.