Virgin gets shareholders loans

[anat0l]

Stop panicking everyone - VA is going no where south. If NZ don't want to partay in that, then they can sell off and get out - they've caused enough damage to Australian airlines in the past, and they are profitable enough to keep themselves happy.

 

[cove]

Virgin did make an accounting profit but their cash flow has remained negative.

 

[medhead]

Are there opportunities in fuel hedging to play the spot market? Maybe for the selling I guess, but not the buyer.

Like Cathay? They have some of the highest oil prices right now and still managed to make a lazy $1B USD profit

Is that a fair comparison? I assume Cathay is much larger than VA and so have economies of scale.

 

[Dannyism]

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA HOLDINGS LIMITED (ASX:VAH) | HotCopper - ASX, Share Prices, Stock Trading, Stock Market, Share Trading Forum

Pretty brutal if you are long on VAH.

Not much positive to say about Virgin from shareholders...

 

[cambriamarsh]

Stop panicking everyone - VA is going no where south. If NZ don't want to partay in that, then they can sell off and get out - they've caused enough damage to Australian airlines in the past, and they are profitable enough to keep themselves happy.

And the Australian airline caused them plenty of damage too, they were practically nationalised.

 

[pauly7]

Stop panicking everyone - VA is going no where south. If NZ don't want to partay in that, then they can sell off and get out - they've caused enough damage to Australian airlines in the past, and they are profitable enough to keep themselves happy.

From some of the quotes today from NZ seems like QF and AA turning the screws on the parent has been a part of the drive behind their exit.

I don't see anyone panicking but I think VA is coming to a bit of an interesting juncture... I suspect their international ops are killing them at the moment, the question is where else do they point the 777s? I doubt they have the brand to pull the numbers to Asia and I'm sure Singapore would not be impressed if they did! But that is where the growth is coming and Qantas is piling on the capacity with glee as the US softens.

Perhaps we may see a scale down of international ops all together?

 

[amaroo]

Doesn't take long to go from Rooster to Feather Duster in the airline game!

JB is the new AJ.

 

[samh004]

Perhaps QF saw that JB wasn't that smart back in 2008, hence the decision to go with AJ. Until now, he's been lucky that he has friends at EY but what VA have become from DJ seems too much too soon. Even recently upgrading their onboard transpacific J offering to Bollinger!

I hope they don't fail, but I do think they're trying too hard to beat QF at every turn when instead they could just do a great job at a similar level.

 

[moa999]

Personally think both got the right jobs.

QF needed someone who could transform mainline, reduce costs and enable it to compete in the era of LCCs (including its own).
Post the failure of Ansett and the growth of JQ/TT, DJ/VA needed someone that could take them up market

 

[Jousams]

Hmm. Not too sure how I'm feeling about my velocity points at the moment. :s.

 

[scottz95]

Armchair analyst here but my guess is that theres a couple of things killing them at the moment.
1) VAs heavy investment in their J and lounge network currently has been huge and would be weighing down on them heavily in loan relayments for these investments
2) Their international network, I mean seriously, thats gotta be a massive lost maker for them considering how badly the aussie dollar is against the greenback. It doensnt help that the transpacific route has gotten super competitive now with AA/UA/DL/QF/VA all having a crack at direct routes and if we start looking at likes of AirNZ/Haiwain/etc who offer one stop connections, the traffic would be highly price sensitive to that. And lets not even think about their choice to run a thrice weekly SYD-AUH when Etihad already has two flights daily with about 800 or so seats between them already.

 

[grubbidok]

FWIW I think the over-investment in J has been a mistake. People are scaling back. I think they've also made a mistake on some of their routes. VA had a great reputation as a LCC alternative to routes the 'full-service' airlines had ditched. It's great to get the corporate highflyers to skim off the cream from this market. But they've been focusing on this end (without huge success), and pretty much neglecting their bread and butter customers.

TBH I can't see them getting positive cash-flow again until they stop this ridiculous obsession with boosting J over every other aspect of their airline.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

Well Air NZ may desire offloading their stake. The big question is, who the hell in their right mind is going to want to buy it!?

 

[anat0l]

Well Air NZ may desire offloading their stake. The big question is, who the hell in their right mind is going to want to buy it!?

Some pundits are reckoning a Chinese party* may be interested.

(* Not directly related to any political parties in China)

 

[yohy?!]

Some pundits are reckoning a Chinese party* may be interested.

(* Not directly related to any political parties in China)

Parties plural? Only one game in town there

Seriously though I could see CX sling some cash on a fire sale price just to tighten the screws on QF and be able to remove all their connecting traffic off QFd.

 

[Jousams]

Some pundits are reckoning a Chinese party* may be interested.

(* Not directly related to any political parties in China)

I think any Chinese party that would be interested in a stake in VAH would be related to 'the party'.

 

[Standby]

Parties plural? Only one game in town there

Seriously though I could see CX sling some cash on a fire sale price just to tighten the screws on QF and be able to remove all their connecting traffic off QFd.

CX and SQ on the same share register,I doubt that.

 

[Isochronous]

The logical thing for VA to do is shift the 777s to HKG service. CX are at their maximum flight cap and want more but won't get it without the air treaty being amended. Australian carriers are still allowed plenty more flights into HKG though - and it would have the benefit of not competing with SQ or EY.

 

[kamchatsky]

Not sure if VA can do well on HKG service, as CX has huge advantage on their connecting network, as well as their Hugh frequency routes. CX would just convert their capped flights to 777 from A330.

The next logical steps to win business travellers would be for them to join *A. Previously they didn't have to as they were spending their effortsto convert from LCC to full service. but now they are running out of options for growth, so I can think that is really the logical step.

 

[moa999]

And remember Virgin Atlantic dropped the route