VISA Waiver Program to USA

[straitman]

In my opinion I do not think it is logical to lump all "so called" crimes in the one basket.

So someone who has been caught soliciting a prostitute in Australia is put in the same category as a murderer, a armed robber, a drug dealer, an arsonist, a rapist etc. Just as well the Australian justice system sees fit to fine the person soliciting a prostitute and not record a conviction against their name.

And why would the USA care about someone who has not had a conviction recorded against their name?

In some Middle Eastern countries it is a criminal offence if you have committed adultery. So now you have a criminal record and would be not be allowed entry to the USA. Yes sounds very logical to me.

That's why it's called LOTFAP

 

[NM]

I think the USA should be consistent and apply the same policy to their own citizens. Anyone who has been charged with a crime should be refused a USA passport and hence the ability to travel.

 

[straitman]

I think the USA should be consistent and apply the same policy to their own citizens. Anyone who has been charged with a crime should be refused a USA passport and hence the ability to travel.

Whilst I agree I'm sure this would go against one of the Constitutional amendments.

 

[Maca44]

Hypothetically, if Australia was to employ the same immigration rules as the USA we would probably have 50% less American tourists.

 

[NM]

Whilst I agree I'm sure this would go against one of the Constitutional amendments.

Then make a new amendment

 

[Dave Noble]

In my opinion I do not think it is logical to lump all "so called" crimes in the one basket.

So someone who has been caught soliciting a prostitute in Australia is put in the same category as a murderer, a armed robber, a drug dealer, an arsonist, a rapist etc. Just as well the Australian justice system sees fit to fine the person soliciting a prostitute and not record a conviction against their name.

And why would the USA care about someone who has not had a conviction recorded against their name?

In some Middle Eastern countries it is a criminal offence if you have committed adultery. So now you have a criminal record and would be not be allowed entry to the USA. Yes sounds very logical to me.

Except that you are ignoring a key issue. Having committed a crime does not necessarily imply that a visa to visa would be refused, just that entering without a visa is restricted

The reason for caring about the lack of convictions recorded is due to the oddity of places like Australia allowing convictions to be swept under the carpet

Dave

 

[mainly tailfirst]

But looked at another way, why should a peculiarity of the Australian legal system give an Australian an advantage over the resident of another country where all convictions are convictions

Whether the crime is of a nature to affect a visa application is down to the USA immigration service

Dave

Or why should a country where some laws are incredibly forgiving (e.g. The Netherlands w.r.t Cannabis possession) have an advantage over Australia in the US WVP?

Oddity? Or pragmatic application of social policy to the legal system?

At the end of the day that US can (and does) apply whatever laws it sees fit to those that wish to enter it. But that doesn't mean that they are at all consistent or sensible...

mt

 

[Dave Noble]

Or why should a country where some laws are incredibly forgiving (e.g. The Netherlands w.r.t Cannabis possession) have an advantage over Australia in the US WVP?

Oddity? Or pragmatic application of social policy to the legal system?

At the end of the day that US can (and does) apply whatever laws it sees fit to those that wish to enter it. But that doesn't mean that they are at all consistent or sensible...

mt

if something is legal in a country then there is nothing to forgive since no crime is committed. if a person was arrested/convicted of a crime then it is an issue

Regardless, having committed an offence doesn't necessarily imply that a visa will be refused.

Dave

 

[mainly tailfirst]

if something is legal in a country then there is nothing to forgive since no crime is committed. if a person was arrested/convicted of a crime then it is an issue

Regardless, having committed an offence doesn't necessarily imply that a visa will be refused.

Dave

W.r.t Cannabis possession in Holland, it's not legal, just that the criminal aspect of the law is not enforced (usually a fine). It's a political/social approach to dealing with that particular 'crime'. Australia's is to record it, but then allow that record to be expunged if enough time passes (and the person is good etc etc.). One gets under the radar of the US immigration law for the WVP, the other does not.
Of course, in this particular area, Australia is not consistent even internally. If you get caught with a joint or two, better be in Adelaide and not Melbourne.

Although if you are in Melbourne, at least you can explain the situation to the US Consulate without having to get on a plane first

mt

 

[stevemilo]

Get over yourself Dave Noble and stop being a goodie two shoes. Your comments make no sense whatsoever. JohnK said it perfectly,
"In my opinion I do not think it is logical to lump all "so called" crimes in the one basket". Face it Dave, your the odd one out here, no1 agrees with you.

 

[Dave Noble]

Get over yourself Dave Noble and stop being a goodie two shoes. Your comments make no sense whatsoever. JohnK said it perfectly,
"In my opinion I do not think it is logical to lump all "so called" crimes in the one basket". Face it Dave, your the odd one out here, no1 agrees with you.

Not all crimes are lumped into one basket

Different crimes would have a different likelihood of a visa being granted; they are NOT all lumped in as being the same. All that is fairly common is that the USA will not allow those arrested/convicted of certain crimes to enter without getting a visa in advance. As far as getting a visa, each case is decided individually, all crimes/acquittals are NOT the same

In your case, you committed a crime of some nature and the USA has decided that it will not grant a visa; if you had been acquitted, I suspect that the result of a visa application would have been different

Dave

 

[stevemilo]

You would make a great lawyer Dave, you certainly talk or should I say type like one. Yes, I agree with you of crimes not all the same but I know what I did was petty and while I do not condone it, they need to look at their rules and change it because as I have previously said, before you know it there will be thousands of people in my predicament. Hopefully these people know of the conditions and don't find out when they have to fill in the immigration card &/or get to customs because the travel agents certainly don't ask you when you book a flight to the USA &/or Canada.

 

[opusman]

before you know it there will be thousands of people in my predicament

Frankly, I don't think they would care about that. They don't want you in their nice clean country. In fact, they don't really want anyone to go there at all

 

[NM]

Hopefully these people know of the conditions and don't find out when they have to fill in the immigration card &/or get to customs because the travel agents certainly don't ask you when you book a flight to the USA &/or Canada.

You mean like the elderly grandmother who had a 30 year old conviction for pot use and was turned away at LAX when trying to enter on the VWP. Obviously she did not qualify for the VWP and the US immigration officers applied the rules and turned her away. Which goes to show that the US immigration authorities tend to apply rules universally.

 

[straitman]

You mean like the elderly grandmother who had a 30 year old conviction for pot use and was turned away at LAX when trying to enter on the VWP. Obviously she did not qualify for the VWP and the US immigration officers applied the rules and turned her away. Which goes to show that the US immigration authorities tend to apply rules universally.

Whether you agree or not they were simply doing their jobs appropriately :!: (literally)

 

[stevemilo]

Frankly, I don't think they would care about that. They don't want you in their nice clean country. In fact, they don't really want anyone to go there at all

Yes That is very true

 

[oz_mark]

We haven't even started on moral turpitude yet

Interestingly the Wizard from the US London Embassy seems to only let you off on minor traffic offences (wrt VWP):

Is the full extent of your history of legal violations limited solely to minor traffic offenses that did not result in your arrest and/or conviction?

Embassy of the U.S. London: Visa Wizard

 

[Failsafe]

Hi guys,

Just want to drop in with another possibly stupid question, when I was 17 and on my P plates I was caught doing 113km in a 100km zone (although the policeman pace checked me and whilst I admit I was probably over I do not think it was by that much but that is beside the point)

As a result of the fine and the subsequent demerit loss I had to appeal to the court to prove I needed my license for work and school use and had my license re-instated with a single demerit to use. I do not know if this would be a recordable criminal offence as it resulted in license suspension?

Am I still eligble for a VWP entry to the us, I was 17 at the time of the ticket and subsequent court appearance to re-instate the license although I was under the single demerit and extended license conditions until I was 19.

Is this something I would need to declare?

I have looked at so many different sites and info from different us bodies that my head is spinning and I still don't have a definitive answer.

Thank you

 

[simongr]

Just for clarity were you actually arrested? That is the question on the VWP form.

 

[NM]

Just for clarity were you actually arrested? That is the question on the VWP form.

Not quite. The question (question B on the form) reads:

"Have you ever been arrested or convicted for an offense or crime involving moral turpitude or a violation related to a controlled substance; or been arrested or convicted for two or more offenses for which the aggregate sentence to confinement was five years or more; or been a controlled substance trafficker; or are you seeking entry to engage in criminal or immoral activities?"

I would expect the answer to that question would be "No" for a person with a speeding offense involving loss of licence. But if in doubt, contact the US Consulate and ask.