"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[Gremlin]

Yeah, but whenever a sign up bonus or similar is marketed, its always something like "..you could take off to New York..." it's never, "you could buy a brand new toaster".

Except it's not. I just googled 'credit card points offers'. I clicked through the first 30 links. The marketing is all about the points you receive. Not a single one mentioned redemption in any way.

 

[Mr H]

Except it's not. I just googled 'credit card points offers'. I clicked through the first 30 links. The marketing is all about the points you receive. Not a single one mentioned redemption in any way.

This is the first credit card I tried. Scroll down to see the mention of domestic flights, international flights and upgrades. ANZ Frequent Flyer Black

On edit - here's the second one I looked at: Qantas Frequent Flyer Program - CommBank

 

[RichardMEL]

This is the first credit card I tried. Scroll down to see the mention of domestic flights, international flights and upgrades. ANZ Frequent Flyer Black

On edit - here's the second one I looked at: Qantas Frequent Flyer Program - CommBank

Yeah but ANZ says "could" multiple times. It doesn't even say you CAN.. but you could. Semantics perhaps but there is a difference.

Of course there's being picky about word meanings and the "pub test" as to what people interpret it as.

CommBank even clearly says "subject to availability" - there's no promise there.

Oops it mentions the 8k points too. Some may get triggered!

 

[levelnine]

It is interesting to think about the medium-term alliance effects of the forthcoming change.

As Gary Leff wrote on the weekend, more and more oneworld members are restricting partner award availability.

Presumably this new Qantas flight reward product won't be available to partners. If Qantas moves more and more flights to this new flight reward product, as it probably will over time, we can reasonably expect that partners will respond by restricting partner availability to Qantas members.

 

[Mr H]

Yeah but ANZ says "could" multiple times. It doesn't even say you CAN.. but you could. Semantics perhaps but there is a difference.

Of course there's being picky about word meanings and the "pub test" as to what people interpret it as.

CommBank even clearly says "subject to availability" - there's no promise there.

Oops it mentions the 8k points too. Some may get triggered!

And it's not just Qantas FF cards. Here's NAB spruiking their Velocity card, also not focusing on toasters...

 

[QF029]

So anyway. There you go.

Please don't bring logic to an argument .

 

[Rich]

Now if you don't mind I'm off to the lotto shop.. I COULD win Powerball!

Same but different.
Offers are marketed around flying. Not a lottery.
I would go so far as to say that if asked you anyone who is not a member of QFF (about half of Australia) what the program is about, most would say free flights and would not be aware you could use points for toasters and the like.
It borders on false advertising.

 

[Quickstatus]

Um why not just announce it?.
No need for the pre- announcement announcement. Ho Hum

 

[exceladdict]

Um why not just announce it?.
No need for the pre- announcement announcement. Ho Hum

I would say twofold
1. Any known likely impact to EBIT etc needs to be declared to investors asap, but
2. Want to time it strategically and advertise DSC in the meantime

 

[MooTime]

Same but different.
Offers are marketed around flying. Not a lottery.
I would go so far as to say that if asked you anyone who is not a member of QFF (about half of Australia) what the program is about, most would say free flights and would not be aware you could use points for toasters and the like.
It borders on false advertising.

Vast majority of my peeps outside AFF use EDR and FBs to get a lousy $10 off at the register, I scoff everytime.

I just tell'em QF and VA, sorry I even have to spell that out to them, Qantas and Virgin love you for opting for the $10 off.

Each to their own.

 

[RichardMEL]

Same but different.
Offers are marketed around flying. Not a lottery.
I would go so far as to say that if asked you anyone who is not a member of QFF (about half of Australia) what the program is about, most would say free flights and would not be aware you could use points for toasters and the like.
It borders on false advertising.

ah, but my point WAS about the aspirational aspect of the two things. And certainly we often call upgrade odds a lottery too do we not? (yes, the odds are far better with QFF ).

See, the marketing is definitely centred on flying with the idea that you COULD redeem the points for flights to Sydney, or to New York, or get upgrades or whatever.

Many do, many fail trying to get there. Many win smaller prizes in the lottery, few win the big one of course (and that's where any attempt at allegory falls apart unless you're hoping for a discount Y->F upgrade ).

I think what @JohnK is trying to say is that while the marketing gives the aspirational allusion of all the wonderful flights people can redeem points for that the reality for many is that it's just not as easy or as simple as people imagine.

However is it "false" advertising? this is where the semantics come in to my way of thinking. Using words like "could" imply one thing, but in no way promise it.

Instead of the lottery example, I suppose perhaps pulling any kind of advertising of this time provides similar examples. If I eat Special K I'll get a great body won't I? If I eat "healthy choice" I'll be much healthier, If I buy bitcoin I *could* become uber rich.. so on and so forth.

I mean isn't much of our society full of aspiration of one sort or another? Pretty much marketing is built upon it in one form or another - pushing QFF, Velocity or Special K is no different in that regard. As always, the consumer's actual experience may differ....

 

[RichardMEL]

Vast majority of my peeps outside AFF use EDR and FBs to get a lousy $10 off at the register, I scoff everytime.

I just tell'em QF and VA, sorry I even have to spell that out to them, Qantas and Virgin love you for opting for the $10 off.

Each to their own.

That's exactly it though. Many see no point (pun intended) in the FF options for these programs - maybe they don't travel, have no interest in it, or simply prefer the more instant need (specially these days) of that $10 off their next shop. Who can blame them? I don't.

However given QFF has 15m members - the vast majority would be Australian or live here at least, there is a big push to be sucked into the ecosystem - for better or worse (that value judgement varies for each person). No idea how many VFF members there are, and there's going to be overlap between the two of course, but it's the same story too.

I'm not going to say to someone happy with their $10 off earnings that they shouldn't - who am I to decide what would work best for anyone else. If asked I'd run through pros and cons, medium term goals and what they think they MIGHT look for or make best use of, and advise accordingly.

Definitely each to their own.

 

[RichardMEL]

gotta know when to look for them, know where to find them, know when to buy them, know when to run (or fly)

So, prompted by @MooTime here, and with waaaay too much time on my hands here is my profound apologies to Kenny Rogers with my version of his infamous song. Sorry for the attempt at humour, but this thread got a bit heavy and figure we could all use a lighten up

The Flyer

On a warm summer's evening
on a plane bound for Currumbin
I met up with the flyer
We were both too tired to sleep
So we took turns a-starin'
out the window at the propellers
The boredom overtook us
And he beegan to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made a life
Out of readin' Terms and Cons
Knowin' what the rules were
By the way they worded their promos
So if you don't mind my sayin'
I can see you're out of SC's
For a taste of your Taittinger
I'll give you some advice"

So I handed him my bottle
And he drank down my last swallow
Then he bummed a voucher
And asked me for the PNR.
And the props grew deathly quiet
And his face lost all expression
Said, "If you're going to play the game
You gotta learn to play it right

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

Every Flyer knows
That the secret to status
is knowin' when to connect
And knowin' when to go direct
'Cause every booking's a winner
And every booking's a loser
And the best thing you can hope for
is your points to not expire.

And when he'd finished speakin'
He turned back toward the window
put his NC headphones on
Faded off to sleep
And somewhere in the darkness
The Flyer he made status
But in his final words
I found DSC I could keep

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

You've got to know when to book 'em (when to book 'em)
Know when to cancel 'em (When to cancel 'em)
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

 

[MooTime]

So, prompted by @MooTime here, and with waaaay too much time on my hands here is my profound apologies to Kenny Rogers with my version of his infamous song. Sorry for the attempt at humour, but this thread got a bit heavy and figure we could all use a lighten up

The Flyer

On a warm summer's evening
on a plane bound for Currumbin
I met up with the flyer
We were both too tired to sleep
So we took turns a-starin'
out the window at the propellers
The boredom overtook us
And he beegan to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made a life
Out of readin' Terms and Cons
Knowin' what the rules were
By the way they worded their promos
So if you don't mind my sayin'
I can see you're out of SC's
For a taste of your Taittinger
I'll give you some advice"

So I handed him my bottle
And he drank down my last swallow
Then he bummed a voucher
And asked me for the PNR.
And the props grew deathly quiet
And his face lost all expression
Said, "If you're going to play the game
You gotta learn to play it right

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

Every Flyer knows
That the secret to status
is knowin' when to connect
And knowin' when to go direct
'Cause every booking's a winner
And every booking's a loser
And the best thing you can hope for
is your points to not expire.

And when he'd finished speakin'
He turned back toward the window
put his NC headphones on
Faded off to sleep
And somewhere in the darkness
The Flyer he made status
But in his final words
I found DSC I could keep

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

You've got to know when to book 'em (when to book 'em)
Know when to cancel 'em (When to cancel 'em)
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

Bravo Bravo!

Sure lightened things up.

 

[TheInsider]

Um why not just announce it?.
No need for the pre- announcement announcement. Ho Hum

May as well get the technical stuff behind it done first. This has been in planning even months before AJ even left.
Like I've said before, any change at Qantas takes years.

 

[Brissy1]

So, prompted by @MooTime here, and with waaaay too much time on my hands here is my profound apologies to Kenny Rogers with my version of his infamous song. Sorry for the attempt at humour, but this thread got a bit heavy and figure we could all use a lighten up

The Flyer

On a warm summer's evening
on a plane bound for Currumbin
I met up with the flyer
We were both too tired to sleep
So we took turns a-starin'
out the window at the propellers
The boredom overtook us
And he beegan to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made a life
Out of readin' Terms and Cons
Knowin' what the rules were
By the way they worded their promos
So if you don't mind my sayin'
I can see you're out of SC's
For a taste of your Taittinger
I'll give you some advice"

So I handed him my bottle
And he drank down my last swallow
Then he bummed a voucher
And asked me for the PNR.
And the props grew deathly quiet
And his face lost all expression
Said, "If you're going to play the game
You gotta learn to play it right

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

Every Flyer knows
That the secret to status
is knowin' when to connect
And knowin' when to go direct
'Cause every booking's a winner
And every booking's a loser
And the best thing you can hope for
is your points to not expire.

And when he'd finished speakin'
He turned back toward the window
put his NC headphones on
Faded off to sleep
And somewhere in the darkness
The Flyer he made status
But in his final words
I found DSC I could keep

You've got to know when to book 'em
Know when to cancel 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

You've got to know when to book 'em (when to book 'em)
Know when to cancel 'em (When to cancel 'em)
Know when to walk away
And know when to status run
You never count your points
When you're sittin' in the lounge
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the flyin's done.

I want to see your youtube video

 

[RichardMEL]

I want to see your youtube video

It's set on a broken A330 and the SYD F lounge (Nestor Cameo).

Also double shots mate.

Ok I am done. Back on whatever the topic is now

 

[JohnK]

So you do you John, but just try to not make blanket generalisations that can be disproven in just a few minutes? cheers

I booked SYD-BKK in October 2023 for travel Christmas Day.

In Oct/Nov 2023 I started looking for classic awards to return towards end of January 2024. Not just BKK. From SIN/HKG/CGK. Nothing. Not even partner awards.

I don't know why but I then checked to see when was the first Classic award available and that was May 2024. This was in Oct/Nov 2023. It's irrelevant what award availability looks like today.

In saying that BKK is always hard but not SIN/HKG/CGK.

 

[Gremlin]

This is the first credit card I tried. Scroll down to see the mention of domestic flights, international flights and upgrades. ANZ Frequent Flyer Black

On edit - here's the second one I looked at: Qantas Frequent Flyer Program - CommBank

Okay. Neither of those came up in my paid search results in google. The Commbank one draws an immediate link to flights, but the ANZ one doesn't. The sell is attached to the points. It's several scrolls down the page before redemptions make an appearance. Ditto with the nab one.

Nevertheless, I don't see a lot of unfulfilled promise even in these cherry picked examples. Commbank features SYD-OOL Economy return, MEL-PER Economy Return and BNE-ZQN Economy return. All are reasonably available.

Click on International Flights on the ANZ Black site and it takes you to the QFF page shown below. Choosing a random date in May, I've found availability to all the destinations listed.



As for the nab velocity one - same random date in May and I found the exact offers for SYD-LAX and MEL-FCO. I didn't find BNE-MLE at that rate... it was at 46,800 points rather than the 50,000 points in the ad.

 

[RooFlyer]

So, prompted by @MooTime here, and with waaaay too much time on my hands here is my profound apologies to Kenny Rogers with my version of his infamous song. Sorry for the attempt at humour, but this thread got a bit heavy and figure we could all use a lighten up

Bravo! Author! Author!