"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[drron]

IMHO we will see say a 10% increase in economy classic awards and premium classic awards basically disappear. Maybe throw in some PE awards so that they can say we do have premium CRs. Then for J and F the new higher priced awards.Their recent report said they are aiming at a billion dollars for the EBIT of QFF by 2030. Not going to get there if they are really going to give the average punters more benefits are they.
​

 

[logicallysynced]

No matter how you cut it though, this will result in classic upgrade rewards/request chances dropping even further - as if the lottery wasn’t enough, especially if new award tier is taken from actual inventory.

Of course the trade off is guaranteed seat > chance of seat, etc.

 

[p--and--t]

So much doom and gloom, and hyperbole.

I have got all the seats I wanted on CR this year and we are visiting 7 countries over two trips. We also got everything we wanted last year on three trips over three continents. Granted we were extra flexible on dates and we took some multisector routing instead of direct, vast majority not on QF metal and many of the sectors were in Y (because we were running out of points).

Unfortunately we have been so successful in utilising our points we ran out. Currently in the process of churning a card or two to build up the points bank.

If you are flexible and in the know on how to use the QF multisector tool combined with the BA Avios tool (even tho I don't have any Avios points) you can find seats with patience.

I thank the lucky stars the QF tools are clunky and lots of people including some AFFers don't seem to be able to find what they want.

 

[jase05]

many of the sectors were in Y

And there lies the issue
Plenty of U available which I have no desire to travel in for any leg, much less anything over much more than an hour or so.
Lack of Premium awards are the concern for most FF’s I’d suspect

 

[levelnine]

Granted we were extra flexible on dates and we took some multisector routing instead of direct, vast majority not on QF metal and many of the sectors were in Y (because we were running out of points).

And what if you don't fit into the narrow subset of people with no constraints on their time, love flying unnecessary distances and sectors, and are willing to spend their hard-earned points on economy travel?

 

[p--and--t]

And what if you don't fit into the narrow subset of people with no constraints on their time, love flying unnecessary distances and sectors, and are willing to spend their hard-earned points on economy travel?

We only travel Y when we are short of points. Not our preferred travel method. All of last year was in J because we had points available (QF, MH, QR, RJ. AT, MS)

 

[levelnine]

We only travel Y when we are short of points. Not our preferred travel method. All of last year was in J because we had points available.

You didn't answer the question.

In any event, the reason you think it is hyperbole is that you won't be affected by this change as partner award redemption rates are not changing.

Those of us who do fly QF internationally in premium cabins will.

 

[p--and--t]

You didn't answer the question.

In any event, the reason you think it is hyperbole is that you won't be affected by this change as partner award redemption rates are not changing.

Those of us who do fly QF internationally in premium cabins will.

YMMV

 

[levelnine]

YMMV

I see you've edited your earlier comment to list the airlines you flew in J.

Interestingly, apart from QF, only one of those flies into/out of Australia (MH) given QR is no longer available on QF points.

So you better be happy going through KL from now on lol.

 

[p--and--t]

QR is no longer available on QF points.

Unless something has changed that I am not aware of - that statement is not true. If you meant QR flights with origin AU, then I would agree.

 

[levelnine]

Unless something has changed that I am not aware of - that statement is not true. If you meant QR flights with origin AU, then I would agree.

'flies into/out of Australia'

 

[RooFlyer]

If correct, this seems to kill off the speculation of massive devaluations?

“The airline says its has ruled out increasing the number of points needed for a Classic Flight Reward seat, as well as reducing the number of Classic Flight Reward seats currently available.”

Haven't been following closely, so apologies if this already well canvassed, but isn't the obvious next step is to introduce a new class of 'reward' seats priced between CR and points+pay? Then they can say 'see - no change to CR' and 'more seats made available to our frequent fliers'.

In their subsequent statements they can boast X increase in reward seats, conveniently hiding that the increase is at a much higher cost.

Not strictly a devaluation, as CR prices stay, but 'more availability'.

Pricing - maybe double CR price at 'saver' level, and triple at 'advantage' level??

Perhaps the BA route where elites can request rewards are made available at double the normal points?

Or that.

Which raises the critical question: what is the breaking point at which people will not snap up every seat instantly?

SQ may be a good example. Advantage-priced seats hang around for a long time but seem eventually to go. I've used Advantage a couple of times when I was sitting on a stack of about-to-expire SQ miles. Expensive, but I reckon that's what the miles are there for.

 

[CaptJCool]

Haven't been following closely, so apologies if this already well canvassed, but isn't the obvious next step is to introduce a new class of 'reward' seats priced between CR and points+pay? Then they can say 'see - no change to CR' and 'more seats made available to our frequent fliers'.

In their subsequent statements they can boast X increase in reward seats, conveniently hiding that the increase is at a much higher cost.

Not strictly a devaluation, as CR prices stay, but 'more availability'.

Pricing - maybe double CR price at 'saver' level, and triple at 'advantage' level??



Or that.



SQ may be a good example. Advantage-priced seats hang around for a long time but seem eventually to go. I've used Advantage a couple of times when I was sitting on a stack of about-to-expire SQ miles. Expensive, but I reckon that's what the miles are there for.

That’s the push come to shove option FOMO kicks in…

If the points expire they are worthless so better to receive some value than none at all

That said if you can buy top-up points on the 50% bonus deal for $3,999 which can if seats were available would pay for a one way F Aust to Europe

Even with co-payment it’s cheaper ($10-12k) than the return tic $19-20,000 (or USA $27,000 F) currently offered within the QF Marketplace

Remember the airline is the “banker at the casino”

 

[bPeteb]

And there lies the issue
Plenty of U available which I have no desire to travel in for any leg, much less anything over much more than an hour or so.
Lack of Premium awards are the concern for most FF’s I’d suspect

There's 13m QFF members. I doubt that most of them want premium awards. Most AFFers might be more accurate.

I'd hazard a guess that 'most' FFs want access to international awards on Qantas planes that are easy to book when they want to fly. Not trawl around on the multi city tool piecing together an itinerary at roughly the time they want to fly. They want enough award seats for their family. They'll also usually be happy to travel Y.

 

[gethsemene]

So the flight I'm currently looking at, which is probably QFi's most popular route, at Christmas, so most popular (read expensive) time:

Syd-Lhr in J

Flex pricing $17,000

CR = 289,200 points = 5.87c per point value

Points plus pay = 3,000,000 = 0.567c per point value.

Now we know QF prices points at roughly 2.7c per point to buy, but for example woolies is 1c per point.

I can't see QF going for a easily available points option above 2c/point, so would guess flights either severely limited or 3x CR or higher...

 

[Berlin]

And there lies the issue
Plenty of U available which I have no desire to travel in for any leg, much less anything over much more than an hour or so.
Lack of Premium awards are the concern for most FF’s I’d suspect

Couldn’t agree more. Nothing I hate more than Qantas claiming they’ve improved award availability and it’s always those useless Economy seats.

If I want to torture myself in the back of the bus, then might as well pay it outright. For me, the value solely comes when you’re redeeming or upgrade for J or F and nowhere else. Not in Cattle class, not buying toasters, none of this nonsense.

 

[RichardMEL]

Couldn’t agree more. Nothing I hate more than Qantas claiming they’ve improved award availability and it’s always those useless Economy seats.

If I want to torture myself in the back of the bus, then might as well pay it outright. For me, the value solely comes when you’re redeeming or upgrade for J or F and nowhere else. Not in Cattle class, not buying toasters, none of this nonsense.

Yes I agree with your POV.

To play devil's advocate though, there's also the situation where a family of 4 or 5 may be trying to get somewhere for a holiday or whatever, and having some extra Y avail when they need may be really helpful to them.

Or to put it a more general way.. many have different goals, needs and budgets (points and cash) and I think we need to remember that there are those out there seeking more modest rewards.

 

[lovestotravel]

So the flight I'm currently looking at, which is probably QFi's most popular route, at Christmas, so most popular (read expensive) time:

Syd-Lhr in J

Flex pricing $17,000

CR = 289,200 points = 5.87c per point value

Points plus pay = 3,000,000 = 0.567c per point value.

Now we know QF prices points at roughly 2.7c per point to buy, but for example woolies is 1c per point.

I can't see QF going for a easily available points option above 2c/point, so would guess flights either severely limited or 3x CR or higher...

Can get 2 seats on SQ in J for that price!

 

[airbound]

Might Qantas being one of the launch participants in the apparently upcoming oneworld alliance-wide upgrades be part of the upcoming improvements to be announced by April?

 

[J-P]

Qantas points can be easily acquired for 1c/point (or less). Qantas holds the value of unredeemed points on its balance sheet at <1c/point (~0.7c last time I checked).

They are never going to release so much premium seat inventory that the redemption value of Qantas points goes above those sorts of numbers. I do not understand why this simple fact seems to be overlooked by those complaining about a lack of business or first class international rewards. If they release more business and first class seats then either the cost has to go up (to keep average value at <$1c per point) or something else has to be devalued.