"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[MEL_Traveller]

Correct because those crazy charges are levied by EK and nothing to do with QFF

I wondered about this?

Lots of airlines impose fuel surcharges, but not all airlines collect them.

For example AC doesn’t, and AA doesn’t for certain carriers (but does with BA since they have some sort of special arrangement).

I thought the award seat = an award seat. The airline you choose to redeem through determines whether to impose the surcharge, and if they do, they get to keep it?

 

[RichardMEL]

Sure, an airline like AA might choose to absorb those carrier surcharges I guess, but QF has always passed them on. One area they're actually consistent i mean since they charge their own carrier charges plus taxes on their own rewards, of course they will pass on those of others - specially EK which is a well documented case of imposing ridiculpus carrier charges/fuel fines - with a number of big increases during a short period on EVERYONE. In this respect it's not QFF being unreasonable per sé.

 

[roby]

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible. For example, SYD-PER business class:
a) American Airlines 20,000 miles plus USD27 (for the same Qantas seat)
b) Qantas Classic Reward, some massive amount, more than double both points and fees

And now the announcement of some new devalued award at Qantas with an even worse burn-rate? Whyever would they publicise this, it only draws attention to the already-miserable value of Qantas Frequent Flyer points

I suppose if QF removes some Classic Rewards, they will also be removed from the inventory shared by partner airlines as they are drawn from the same booking classes.

Just look at NZ. They removed their version of the Classic Rewards under the disguise of "Air Dollars" more than a decade ago and now NZ's availability of reward seats to partner airlines is few and far between even though the burn rate is far superior than what their own members have.

 

[RooFlyer]

If they are correct, on that basis on average there is one booking per member every three years.

All those people accumulating points but waiting, waiting, waiting for the opportunity to use them on the big trip, but which never comes.

Personally, except for my next trip, I've used my QFF points for domestic J travel, or domestic upgrades - maybe 6-8 per year - (plus J --> F upgrades when I was shuttling across the Pacific for work). Sure, I know its not 'the best value' but a QFF point has no value if it can't be used. There were always plenty of points to be had if I thought I'd need it for an international redemption.

 

[exceladdict]

All those people accumulating points but waiting, waiting, waiting for the opportunity to use them on the big trip, but which never comes.

Personally, except for my next trip, I've used my QFF points for domestic J travel, or domestic upgrades - maybe 6-8 per year - (plus J --> F upgrades when I was shuttling across the Pacific for work). Sure, I know its not 'the best value' but a QFF point has no value if it can't be used. There were always plenty of points to be had if I thought I'd need it for an international redemption.

Completely agree with you here. Breakage due to not using points before expiry is easy money for programs. The worst value toaster or gift card is better value than nothing.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Completely agree with you here. Breakage due to not using points before expiry is easy money for programs. The worst value toaster or gift card is better value than nothing.

Add Points + Pay to this. Often criticised as being very poor value, but if you have that many points and no other use for them..

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Sure, an airline like AA might choose to absorb those carrier surcharges I guess, but QF has always passed them on. One area they're actually consistent i mean since they charge their own carrier charges plus taxes on their own rewards, of course they will pass on those of others - specially EK which is a well documented case of imposing ridiculpus carrier charges/fuel fines - with a number of big increases during a short period on EVERYONE. In this respect it's not QFF being unreasonable per sé.

Yes, but i’m not sure the issue is that they are ‘absorbing’ the carrier charges.

My understanding was that carriers that collect fuel surcharges actually keep them, not passing them to the operating airline? (unless there’s some special agreement like BA/AA)

I can’t imagine AA, AC and Lifemiles forking out millions of dollars by paying fuel surcharges they choose not to collect!

Edited to add: this thread seems to suggest the FFP keeps the surcharge, not passing it on: Who pays the fuel surcharges on award tickets - the Airline or the FFP? - FlyerTalk Forums

 

[Lynda2475]

QFF = approx 15m members

Yes but a good deal of those are not actually frequent flyers or even particularly active. How many parents open accounts for kids, then transfer their points? Or open accounts for family members who fly every other year?

QF CR awards = approx 5m in 2023
If they are correct, on that basis on average there is one booking per member every three years.
It would seem anybody ahead of that is doing well for themselves (including me).

Some will save much longer than 3 years even to get a domestic award as they aren't as point focused as many here. Others are happy to redeem for gift vouchers or toasters.

 

[RichardMEL]

A bit of googling says no EK fuel surcharges via AC which is very interesting.

I can't tell about other charges (if any) though.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A bit of googling says no EK fuel surcharges via AC which is very interesting.

I can't tell about other charges (if any) though.

Only taxes. But EK awards are higher priced than general partner awards. Not entirely sure why, maybe EK has built some of their fuel surcharge into the award price they charge AC.

 

[jase05]

A bit of googling says no EK fuel surcharges via AC which is very interesting.

I can't tell about other charges (if any) though.

Yes but EK costs more points than other carriers when booking with AC.

 

[Daver6]

Why would anyone mourn the disappearance of Qantas Classic Rewards? They're terrible. For example, SYD-PER business class:
a) American Airlines 20,000 miles plus USD27 (for the same Qantas seat)
b) Qantas Classic Reward, some massive amount, more than double both points and fees

And now the announcement of some new devalued award at Qantas with an even worse burn-rate? Whyever would they publicise this, it only draws attention to the already-miserable value of Qantas Frequent Flyer points

Because:
a) most people in Australia don't earn AA miles
b) the alternative requires even more points!

 

[RichardMEL]

Yes but EK costs more points than other carriers when booking with AC.

So.. user pays still - it's just mot a cash extra.

 

[equus]

Yes but a good deal of those are not actually frequent flyers or even particularly active. How many parents open accounts for kids, then transfer their points? Or open accounts for family members who fly every other year?

Or open accounts for family members who fly a few times, and have since passed away, but the FF account still exists,

 

[wandering_fred]

All those people accumulating points but waiting, waiting, waiting for the opportunity to use them on the big trip, but which never comes.
...

I suppose I am in that category, though I have no expectation of using those points to/from/within Australia on QF.
There are other places where it is more economical to be wandering
Fred

 

[RooFlyer]

Or open accounts for family members who fly a few times, and have since passed away, but the FF account still exists,

Tried to get my brother's QFF account closed after he died (zero balance). Gave up after two tries.

 

[tdimdad]

When it comes to CR's, do they operate on reciprocity with the partner airlines? I.e. if CX, CI, etc offer reward availability to QFF members, is there an expectation that QFF offers availability in kind back to their FF members?

In other words, if QF starts to reduce CR's and it consequently reduces the partner FF's ability to book rewards flights on QF metal, should we expect an equal reduction in the availability of rewards on partners' metal? If that happens, what'll be left effectively are Classic+, cabin upgrades and toasters. In that case, perhaps it's best to aim to burn off the QFF points in the next 1-3 years and start looking elsewhere.

 

[roby]

When it comes to CR's, do they operate on reciprocity with the partner airlines? I.e. if CX, CI, etc offer reward availability to QFF members, is there an expectation that QFF offers availability in kind back to their FF members?

In other words, if QF starts to reduce CR's and it consequently reduces the partner FF's ability to book rewards flights on QF metal, should we expect an equal reduction in the availability of rewards on partners' metal? If that happens, what'll be left effectively are Classic+, cabin upgrades and toasters. In that case, perhaps it's best to aim to burn off the QFF points in the next 1-3 years and start looking elsewhere.

It's not unreasonble to assume that if QF sells the equal (or close to) amount of reward seats to the seats that the program buys from other partner airlines, there will be a very small amount on the bill that changes hand between QF and their partner airlines.

If QF lets you redeem tons of seats on partner airlines but not releases enough to their partners, QF would end up with very large bills when they periodically settle. In order for that not to occur, it would incentivise QF to block some rewards offered by partner airlines. This is what happens with NZ in that they release very few seats to partners and Airpoints members in return also get most *A rewards blocked.

 

[CaptJCool]

10 hours to go!

 

[turtlemichael]

10 hours to go!

Someone I know would have responded to that: "I'm moist with excitement". Not me, mind you.