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.....peer reviewed paper .......

Sorry, but I have to make comment on this terminology. As I hope I have made clear before, (no doubt lost in the chaos of the emotions involved in this thread), my concern (or position) is not so much who is right, but rather the ¨bad science¨that is predominant.

I challenge anyone to not agree with the phrase ¨Global warming as a concept is currently more widely accepted than the denial of same¨.

In that environment, the pressure (or financial incentive) for those ¨peers¨ is very skewed by those funding issues.

Bad, bad, bad science.
 
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Sorry, but I have to make comment on this terminology. As I hope I have made clear before, (no doubt lost in the chaos of the emotions involved in this thread), my concern (or position) is not so much who is right, but rather the ¨bad science¨that is predominant.

I challenge anyone to not agree with the phrase ¨Global warming as a concept is currently more widely accepted than the denial of same¨.

In that environment, the pressure (or financial incentive) for those ¨peers¨ is very skewed by those funding issues.

Bad, bad, bad science.

Well ok then, because cherry picking 1998 is sooooo much better.

But you must be right, scientists just do it for the money. They are so stupid they're not going to properly review the methodology of a paper on something they support just so they can get the money.


Ohohoh, I just woke up.
 
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When that is you position it is laughable to call me wrong. Rate of change can indeed be a constant. But if you read very carefully you will see that I never claimed that the rate of change was a constant. I said the rate of change is much much larger than it has been historically. When the rate of change is, say, 100 times the normal observed range of rate of change that certainly suggests another influence besides Mother Nature.

Seriously this has nothing to do with predicting the exact date and time of the next cyclone. What an utterly ludicrous suggestion.
Why is it ludicrous? You seem to be advising us we need to do something right now about climate change because we are in trouble but you can't make any accurate predictions about any weather events. How do I know this climate change we are experiencing now is going to cause anything serious? Read the links you provide to someone's opinion? No thanks.

And your predictions about rate of change mean nothing either. You don't have a reference point in history to say if the rate of change is this much then we are in trouble.
 
Why is it ludicrous? You seem to be advising us we need to do something right now about climate change because we are in trouble but you can't make any accurate predictions about any weather events. How do I know this climate change we are experiencing now is going to cause anything serious? Read the links you provide to someone's opinion? No thanks.

And your predictions about rate of change mean nothing either. You don't have a reference point in history to say if the rate of change is this much then we are in trouble.

Weather is not the same as climate.
 
This applies to "both sides". Sources of funding are inextricably linked to "the science" so neither side is convincing.
 
Unfortunately the findings of the authors of the peer reviewed paper that investigated the affect of the carbon tax do not support your opinion. They determined the effect of the carbon tax net of reduced electricity consumption.

Interesting that you cherry pick 1998 as a starting year. What was that about data fraud. How does the year correlate with the natural cooling and warming cycles? Personally, I'm more happy to accept the findings of peer reviewed research, that considers a whole range of factors like natural cycles, over an opinion that cherry picks one year.

Next thing you'll be trying to demand to know the exact date and time of the next cyclone.

There is nothing strange about the choice of 1998 - that is the peak temperature year. A point acknowledged and written about in many early 2000s papers. I am surprised you do not remember that.

Every paper I have mentioned (that was subsequently disproven by its null hypothesis) was peer reviewed and at a significantly higher supposed level than what you have mentioned.

From a scientific, as opposed to an opinion based, perspective if the claimed 'leading' research papers cited and used by subsequent papers to justify their claims are found to be invalid then the subsequent papers are also invalidated.

That is one reason why the spin doctors changed the claims from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". The "Global Warming" models' predictions never eventuated. Not one's projections from the period of 1998 through to 2007 were born out. So the snouts-in-trough brigade together with their spin doctors made it a variation on a theme and relabeled it climate change.

And lastly, nice try but please Medhead stop trying to 'verbal' people.

Please stick to responding to the issue raised NOT the issues you wish were raised.
 
...Please stick to responding to the issue raised NOT the issues you wish were raised.

I'd love it if the believers of the Boltian Universe would stick to an issue, but as soon as you disprove one specious argument they pull out another. It's like that silly arcade game where ugly creatures pop out of the table, but as soon as you hammer one down with logic ... another one pops up with less logic than the first.

So what is the "issue raised"? Was it the impact of the carbon tax? According to the geniuses on here it simultaneously shut down the aluminium industry (and many more businesses), and yet made no impact on emissions. Really? Ok - what's the next issue ....?
 
There is nothing strange about the choice of 1998 - that is the peak temperature year. A point acknowledged and written about in many early 2000s papers. I am surprised you do not remember that.

Every paper I have mentioned (that was subsequently disproven by its null hypothesis) was peer reviewed and at a significantly higher supposed level than what you have mentioned.

From a scientific, as opposed to an opinion based, perspective if the claimed 'leading' research papers cited and used by subsequent papers to justify their claims are found to be invalid then the subsequent papers are also invalidated.

That is one reason why the spin doctors changed the claims from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". The "Global Warming" models' predictions never eventuated. Not one's projections from the period of 1998 through to 2007 were born out. So the snouts-in-trough brigade together with their spin doctors made it a variation on a theme and relabeled it climate change.

And lastly, nice try but please Medhead stop trying to 'verbal' people.

Please stick to responding to the issue raised NOT the issues you wish were raised.

Given I raised the issue, you'll find I have stuck to it. Once again fully and correctly representing your position becomes trying to verbal you when disproved. I see a pattern, disproving your illogical argument is verballing, while you're free to misrepresent me any which way.

Perhaps you might try sticking to the issue instead of distraction and strawmen. Until you learn to attack the issue and not me, there is nothing more to say.
 
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Why is it ludicrous? You seem to be advising us we need to do something right now about climate change because we are in trouble but you can't make any accurate predictions about any weather events. How do I know this climate change we are experiencing now is going to cause anything serious? Read the links you provide to someone's opinion? No thanks.

And your predictions about rate of change mean nothing either. You don't have a reference point in history to say if the rate of change is this much then we are in trouble.

Because weather isn't climate. I have to seriously question your grasp of the topic when you don't seem to understand the difference. Climate measurements are not about predicting weather. It is ludicrous to think otherwise.
 
[h=1]Spin vs Reality...
Germany's Coal Binge[/h] [h=2]Green energy mandates have achieved the opposite of their intent.[/h] Berlin's "energy revolution" is going great—if you own a coal mine. The German shift to renewable power sources that started in 2000 has brought the green share of German electricity up to around 25%. But the rest of the energy mix has become more heavily concentrated on coal, which now accounts for some 45% of power generation and growing. Embarrassingly for such an eco-conscious country, Germany is on track to miss its carbon emissions reduction goal by 2020.

Greens profess horror at this result, but no one who knows anything about economics will be surprised. It's the result of Chancellor Angela Merkel's Energiewende, or energy revolution, a drive to thwart market forces and especially price signals, that might otherwise allocate energy resources. Now the market is striking back.
Take the so-called feed-in tariff, which requires distributors to buy electricity from green generators at fixed prices before buying power from other sources. Greens tout the measure because it has encouraged renewable generation to the point that Germany now sometimes experiences electricity gluts if the weather is particularly sunny or windy.
Yet by diverting demand to renewables, the tariff deprives traditional generators of revenue and makes it harder for them to forecast demand for thermal power plants that require millions of euros of investment and years to build. No wonder utilities favor cheaper coal plants to pick up the slack whenever renewables don't deliver as promised.

BN-ER131_edp092_G_20140923110107.jpg
ENLARGE

The Scholven coal power plant of German utility giant E.ON is seen in Gelsenkirchen. Reuters


Mrs. Merkel's accelerated phase-out of nuclear power after the 2011 Fukushima disaster in Japan has had a similar effect. Shutting profitable nuclear plants deprives utilities of revenue and saddles them with steep decommissioning costs, which makes cheaper coal more appealing.
To top it off, Berlin has imposed a moratorium on fracking. By preventing exploitation of ample shale-gas reserves, the ban leaves Germany more exposed to strategic pressure from gas exporters (read: Russia) and raises the cost of gas relative to coal. This is another reason cheap, local coal is back in favor.

Ordinary Germans foot the bill for these market distortions, having ponied up an estimated €100 billion ($129 billion) extra on their electricity bills since 2000 to fund the renewable drive. The government estimates this revolution could cost a total of €1 trillion by 2040.

Berlin is scaling back some taxpayer subsidies for green power. But Germans still also pay for the energy revolution when job-creating investment goes to countries with lower power costs, as happened earlier this year when chemical company BASF said it would cut its investments in Germany to one-quarter of its global total from one-third, and when bad incentives skew generation toward dirtier coal instead of cleaner natural gas.

None of this is what environmentalists promise voters when they plug the virtues of a low-carbon future. Germany's coal renaissance is a cautionary tale in what happens when you try to substitute green dreams for economic realities.
 
Makes sense - Germany increases prices to encourage more coal fired-generation, causes its electricity price to rise to a level 6 times that of Washington State so that manufacturing leaves Germany. Bring Julia back - she did have the right idea after all!

GOING GREEN BY CHOPPING TREES
Cutting down trees is the new green way. European Union countries are shifting to biomass—the burning of wood pellets—instead of coal in order to meet stringent environmental goals.
So logging—long a bugbear of the green movement—is now in vogue. Just, not in Europe. As The Wall Street Journal’s Justin Scheck and Ianthe Jeanne Dugan report, the U.S. is shouldering the responsibility of supplying the EU with pellets as, conversely, the type of logging practice that this requires would breach EU rules.

With 20 biomass-burning power stations in the U.K. alone, and others planned both in that country, across Europe and in North America, demand will be through the roof. Most of this is likely to be met from the U.S. by companies such as Plum Creek, the country’s biggest private landowner and, the BBC says, among the most effective tree-farming operations in the world.

When it passed its biomass rules the EU didn’t bank on the U.S. being the main source of wood. Greenpeace, Friends of the Earth and others say the subsidies available for this mean bad news for the planet. Mere scaremongering, says the industry.

One of the key bones of contention is whether replanting is enough to reabsorb the carbon released by burning. By 2020 the European Space Agency will have a satellite in orbit that will help bring clarity to this dispute. Aptly named Biomass, it will enable scientists to calculate the amount of carbon stored in the world’s forests and to monitor changes, the BBC says.
FRACKING
All this forestry is aimed at one thing—keeping Europe powered, cheaply. Aside from the domestic consumer disgruntlement that comes from ever-higher heating and lighting bills, industry is also concerned.

German car giant BMW chose Washington state as location for a factory to manufacture energy-intensive carbon fiber for a new electric vehicle. The Financial Times says electricity there costs six times less than in Germany, and it is this disparity that is raising concerns about Europe’s competitiveness.
 
So lets do the numbers on the distortion caused by the 'working of the system in Europe.

Drax expects to burn about seven million tons of wood annually and collect about $600 million a year from renewable-energy credits.

So they are getting $600m back (from tax payers) because they are burning wood that would be illegal to burn if sourced in most of Europe but as it is coming from the US (with much weaker environmental protection) which allows clear felling of old growth forests it is OK. The cost of 7 million tons of thermal coal (using year avg prices) was $430m.

All of a sudden it makes it easy to see where the funding for pushing these Green Initiatives may be coming from! And curiously enough the provable science does not support this so-called Green Initiative - what a surprise!

So by burning trees that took 30, 40 or over 100 years to sequester their carbon and releasing it in a few minutes is OK. Unless an area 30-100 times the size is replanted for each area cut down then it is increasing carbon emissions.

BUT fresh water is also a valuable commodity, as is arable land that is needed for food production - so the model does not work. Isn't this hypocritical then to criticise the developing economies for doing the same thing? Such as in Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil and Argentina? Yes, the UK carbon tax is working well.


[h=1]Europe's Green-Fuel Search Turns to America's Forests[/h]INDSOR, N.C.—Loggers here are clear-cutting a wetland forest with decades-old trees.


The U.S. logging industry is seeing a rejuvenation, thanks in part of Europe's efforts to seek out green fuel and move away from coal. Ianthe Dugan explains. Photo: Getty Images.




Behind the move: an environmental push.
The push isn't in North Carolina but in Europe, where governments are trying to reduce fossil-fuel use and carbon-dioxide emissions. Under pressure, some of the Continent's coal-burning power plants are switching to wood.

But Europe doesn't have enough forests to chop for fuel, and in those it does have, many restrictions apply. So Europe's power plants are devouring wood from the U.S., where forests are bigger and restrictions fewer.

This dynamic is bringing jobs to some American communities hard hit by mill closures. It is also upsetting conservationists, who say cutting forests for power is hardly an environmental plus.
On a hot Tuesday along North Carolina's Roanoke River, crews were cutting the trees in a swampy 81-acre parcel, including towering tupelos. While many of the trunks went for lumber, the limbs and the smaller trees were loaded on trucks headed to a mill 30 miles away, to be ground up, compressed into pellets and put on ships to Europe.
"The logging industry around here was dead a few years ago," said Paul Burby, owner of a firm called Carolina East Forest Products that hired subcontractors to cut the trees after paying a landowner for rights. "Now that Europe is using all these pellets, we can barely keep up."
P1-BL688_WOOD_p_NS_20130527184507.jpg






The logging is perfectly legal in North Carolina and generally so elsewhere in the U.S. South. In much of Europe, it wouldn't be.

The U.K., for example, requires loggers to get permits for any large-scale tree-cutting. They must leave buffers of standing trees along wetlands, and they generally can't clear-cut wetlands unless the purpose is to restore habitat that was altered by tree planting, said a spokesman for the U.K. Forestry Commission.

Italy and Lithuania make some areas off-limits for clear-cutting, meaning cutting all of the trees in an area rather than selectively taking the mature ones. Switzerland and Slovenia completely prohibit clear-cutting. It is a common logging practice in the U.S.

U.S. wood thus allows EU countries to skirt Europe's environmental rules on logging but meet its environmental rules on energy.

The wood-power industry says its approach is environmentally sound. "We only take the low-value material from the forest," said Nigel Burdett, the environment chief for Drax PLC, a U.K. power company that is converting some coal units at the U.K.'s biggest power plant to wood and setting up pellet mills in the U.S.

The industry also cites the ability of trees newly planted after cutting to absorb greenhouse gases. "Young trees absorb more carbon than older trees," said John Keppler, chief executive of the U.S.'s biggest wood-pellet exporter, Enviva LP, at a London conference on "biomass" power in April. "What's the best way to get more carbon absorbed? Cut it down. Replant."
Environmental groups dispute that logic. They say all the carbon that mature trees have been "sequestering" is instantly released when they are burned, far more rapidly than saplings can absorb it.

If Europe's goal is to reduce carbon emissions, "it doesn't make any sense to cut down the trees that are sequestering carbon," said Debbie Hammel, a resource specialist at the Natural Resources Defense Council.

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Parts of some trees cut in the U.S. become fuel for Europe's power producers, processed into wood pellets. Matt Eich for The Wall Street Journal




The European Union's environment agency said it is trying to assess the consequences of creating a U.S. pellet boom. "The European Commission is currently analyzing the environmental risks" of large-scale biomass production, said a spokeswoman for the office of the energy commissioner at the Commission, which is the EU's executive body.
The Commission, she said by email, is trying to determine "whether such risks can be effectively managed through existing forest/environmental policies."
The push began in 2007, when the Commission set a goal, by 2020, of reducing Europe's greenhouse-gas emissions to 20% below their 1990 level. It also set a goal of moving Europe to 20% renewable energy by 2020.

Solar and wind couldn't meet the latter goal, policy makers recognized. They said wood qualified as a renewable energy source as long as it came from forests that would grow back. Emissions from burning wood contain less of certain chemicals, such as sulfur, than coal smoke.

European countries devised a system of awarding credits to companies that generate electricity from renewable sources. They then can sell their credits to electricity suppliers.
Drax has long burned coal in a plant rising from pastoral Yorkshire fields. This has become an increasingly unattractive practice, for a variety of reasons that include a carbon tax floor the U.K. made effective this year. Drax has set out to convert half its coal units to wood.
The plant has converted one of its six units so far, and last year it sold about $90 million of renewable-energy credits to other companies, a spokeswoman said. After it fully converts two more units, Drax expects to burn about seven million tons of wood annually and collect about $600 million a year from renewable-energy credits.

On a recent day, workers were finishing two giant concrete domes to store pellets, which arrive from ports on Drax's own rail line. "The vast majority" come from the U.S., Drax said.
“ 'The logging industry around here was dead,' said one logger. Now, with Europe's demand, 'we can barely keep up.' ”
Reasons for favoring the U.S., besides its ample forests close to ports, include political pressure in Europe against buying in countries where there would be a risk of getting illegally harvested tropical hardwoods.
Europe's nine largest wood-burning utilities consumed 6.7 million tons of wood pellets in 2012, according to Argus Media, which tracks the industry. Argus expects European pellet consumption to nearly double by 2020, with much of the new demand met from the U.S. American mills exported 1.9 million tons of pellets last year, up nearly fourfold in three years, by Argus's figures.
U.S. exports of coal to Europe have also risen, owing partly to price fluctuations in natural gas. Energy analysts call the trend temporary since some coal plants are set to close in coming years.

The pellet economy appears to be developing faster than rules to guide it.
Principles the EU has told member countries to follow say wood for energy can't come from forests that aren't reforested after cutting. Also, trees from sensitive areas like wetlands, old-growth forests or areas of wide biodiversity aren't supposed to be burned for power. Doing so would violate sustainability criteria the European Commission has outlined, said the spokeswoman for the commission's office of the energy commissioner.
Those criteria were set for biofuels such as alcohol distilled from wood. The EU has told member countries to use the same guidelines in forming their policies on wood as fuel, though this currently isn't binding on them. The EU is currently studying wood-specific rules. Individual countries will be responsible for interpreting and enforcing them, said people involved in the policy process.
In the U.K., it still isn't clear exactly what restrictions there ultimately will be on wood from wetlands trees, said the U.K. Department of Conservation and Climate Change. The U.K.'s draft rules indicate it might be permissible to use some such wood if it were determined that logging it didn't permanently change a wetland's ecosystem, a spokeswoman said. European authorities can't mandate what forests in other countries are harvested, only tell European companies what kind of wood fuel will qualify for renewable credits.
With the rules so unsettled, ensuring the forestry is sustainable has been left largely to power companies and pellet suppliers.
Drax said it carefully monitors its supply chain. "We are not taking old-growth forest," said the company's Mr. Burdett. Drax said it requires pellet suppliers to exclude wood from areas that would be permanently deforested or have their ecosystems destroyed.
Many of the pellet-making plants springing up in the U.S.—which include plants planned by Drax and other European power companies—are near pine plantations established long ago partly to serve the now-slumping wood-pulp market.
Enviva charted a different course. The company, backed by New York private-equity firm Riverstone Holdings, put some of its pellet plants near natural hardwood forests that had established loggers and access to ports, but depressed tree-cutting activity because of pulp-mill closures. Enviva, a supplier to Drax, recently opened one of its largest plants so far in Northhampton County, N.C., in the coastal hardwood belt.

Mr. Burby, the logger who bought rights to cut trees along the Roanoke River near Windsor, said that in the past, he would "shovel-log" the swamps—clear-cut them with bulldozer-like vehicles riding on makeshift roads made of trees. He sold the large trunks to lumber mills and smaller stuff to pulp mills.
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Some of the logging that feeds European demand is done in swamps like in Windsor, N.C. Matt Eich for The Wall Street Journal




In 2009, a paper-company pulp mill he sold to closed. His business fell off steeply, partly because "you couldn't get rid of the hardwood pulpwood." Landowners didn't want big mounds of limbs piling up, and without a market for the pulpwood, it was hard to make a profit.
Now, Enviva's pellet mill in Ahoskie, N.C., has created a new market for pulp-grade wood. Standing on a section of higher ground near the Roanoke, Mr. Burby said the pellet mill made it possible for him to keep his crew working there, cutting the pine, oak, beech and sycamore in the drier sections and the tupelo gum and cypress hardwoods that grow tall in the flooded areas.
"With Enviva opening up, you can justify shovel-logging again," Mr. Burby said.
The North Carolina Forest Service allows logging in wetlands as long as it complies with state laws prohibiting destruction of waterways, said a spokesman, Brian Haines. Among voluntary "best management" practices, the agency urges loggers in its published guidelines to "minimize activity on saturated soils and near waterbodies." In wet areas, the state recommends building roads out of trees as Mr. Burby did, to help keep heavy machines from damaging the wetland.
Enviva said it requires timber suppliers to follow state-recommended best-management practices and sometimes audits logging operations. Customers sometimes inspect Enviva's operations, its spokeswoman said, so it has an incentive to be careful where its wood comes from.

Still, wood from forests with trees more than 100 years old, including some from wetlands, does wind up in pellet plants, according to loggers. In recent months, foresters have clear-cut portions of two such Roanoke River areas and delivered some of the wood to Enviva's mill in Ahoskie, the loggers said.

Logger George Henerson said that earlier this year, he sold Enviva several hundred tons of hardwood that his crew clear-cut from a swamp that hadn't been logged for about 100 years.
"Enviva, now they need wood bad enough that they're paying for some swamp logging," said Mr. Henerson.
Academics who study wetland forests say some of those along the Roanoke are sensitive environments that it may not be possible to clear-cut sustainably. William Conner, a forestry professor at Clemson University, said recent research shows that wetland trees in the Roanoke area regrow slowly after clear-cutting and without the same species mix.
Stanley Riggs, a geologist at East Carolina University, said that besides the animal and plant habitat that mature wetland forests provide, they help prevent flooding. He said clear-cutting them is "destroying a whole ecosystem." A North Carolina group called the Dogwood Alliance, along with the Natural Resources Defense Council, is launching a campaign against pellet mills.
Enviva's spokeswoman said the swamps along the Roanoke were logged sustainably, because the loggers took measures to prevent damaging the ground, such as keeping their bulldozers on a temporary road, and the landowners will let the trees naturally regrow.
 
Indeed. A flawed set of stories that ignores the elephant in the room and has almost nothing to do with the thread topic.

Indeed. I'd love to know where RAM gets this excrement from, as it is particularly disingenuous. For example the first claim in the RAMble is :-

"Embarrassingly for such an eco-conscious country, Germany is on track to miss its carbon emissions reduction goal by 2020."

Sounds terrible, doesn't it? Until you get the full picture that Germany's 2020 target is to reduce emissions by 40% of 1990 levels - more ambitious than it's EU peers and far, far more ambitious than Australia. One of the key elements in this projected failure (estimated to be by 7%) is that they have wound back their nuclear program after the fallout (PTP) of the Fukushima meltdown.

Oh dear - the facts getting in the way of the climate skeptics again. How embarrassing!
 
Indeed. I'd love to know where RAM gets this excrement from, as it is particularly disingenuous. For example the first claim in the RAMble is :-

"Embarrassingly for such an eco-conscious country, Germany is on track to miss its carbon emissions reduction goal by 2020."

Sounds terrible, doesn't it? Until you get the full picture that Germany's 2020 target is to reduce emissions by 40% of 1990 levels - more ambitious than it's EU peers and far, far more ambitious than Australia. One of the key elements in this projected failure (estimated to be by 7%) is that they have wound back their nuclear program after the fallout (PTP) of the Fukushima meltdown.

Oh dear - the facts getting in the way of the climate skeptics again. How embarrassing!

Oh dear. 33% reduction in pollution. What an utter failure. :rolleyes: :lol: It puts 5% in perspective. Also interesting that the rest of the world is acting on this and are holding up Australia's carbon tax as an example. Amazing what taking a leadership position can achieve.

But then we've stopped all that because Australia couldn't possibly act alone. :rolleyes:

I see an embarrassment. But it sure ain't related to only reducing pollution by 33%.
 
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Indeed. I'd love to know where RAM gets this excrement from, as it is particularly disingenuous. For example the first claim in the RAMble is :-

"Embarrassingly for such an eco-conscious country, Germany is on track to miss its carbon emissions reduction goal by 2020."

Sounds terrible, doesn't it? Until you get the full picture that Germany's 2020 target is to reduce emissions by 40% of 1990 levels - more ambitious than it's EU peers and far, far more ambitious than Australia. One of the key elements in this projected failure (estimated to be by 7%) is that they have wound back their nuclear program after the fallout (PTP) of the Fukushima meltdown.

Oh dear - the facts getting in the way of the climate skeptics again. How embarrassing!

Inconvenient truth proves unpalatable to those who argue based on mis-information!

For the EU to reach its 2020 targets of 20% emission reduction then Germany needed to reduce their amount by 40%. The most optimistic 'miss will be 7% (as you only quoted the most optimistic outcome).

The middle of the range is a miss by 12% and the worst case is a miss by 20% (or out by 50% of their target). The last figure is both called the worst case AND most likely as Germany's trend has reversed since 2008.

Due to the announcement of the closure of their entire nuclear power capacity it is projected that due to the high price of gas (which has seen a number of gas power stations closed completely btw) which is only expected to become less competitive due to the issues of dependency on Russia's supply. So that is why they are now clear-felling old growth hardwood forests in the US. Also a figure of between 4-9% (depending which source you believe) of the 'reduction' is from purchasing 'credits' from developing countries.

Unfortunately subsequent investigations have shown much of the 'purchased credits' to be fraudulent. But as far as the accounting in the EU goes - it is the thought that counts and Germany still can claim them as reductions even though they do not exist.

Do you think non-existent but paid for fraudulent credits should be counted as 'emissions reductions'?

If these are removed then Germany will miss by between 10-23% (or by 25 to 60% of their target with 60% being the most likely.)

As the nuclear stations are decommissioned it is expected that new coal fired stations will be constructed as their economics (even with the EU carbon regime) is compelling and the estimated additional Euro 900billion cost to Germany from existing locked in subsidies and costs to the German population is unfunded (a bit like the Australian experience in that respect is it not?).

So contrary to yet another baseless claim - the facts show the world's most ardent Kyoto devotee will miss the target by more than the current Australian outlook post the dismantling of the Australian Carbon Tax. Despite locking in their population to power prices up to 6x that of the US and at a cost per person of EUR 12,500. That is for every man, women and child. (BTW all figures taken from the EU CC Commission)

Oops an inconvenient truth strikes again!
 
Oh dear. 33% reduction in pollution. What an utter failure. :rolleyes: :lol: It puts 5% in perspective. Also interesting that the rest of the world is acting on this and are holding up Australia's carbon tax as an example. Amazing what taking a leadership position can achieve.

But then we've stopped all that because Australia couldn't possibly act alone. :rolleyes:

I see an embarrassment. But it sure ain't related to only reducing pollution by 33%.

Did you actually have a look at the emission atlas link provided for you and others?

I could not have put it better myself - thanks for you inadvertent efforts!

"Also interesting that the rest of the world is acting..."

"Acting" being the operative word. Yes they are 'acting' for the cameras and spin doctors while they build dozens of new coal-fired power plants every year. Or in Germany's current (and past 6 years) have been running their existing coal-fired power stations at maximum capacity.

Actions do speak louder than groundless claims and the actions now have the greatest amount of coal burnt for electricity generation (for the world as a whole) then ever before. Total coal-fired power station emissions are expected to grow by the low single digits through to 2032 based on current contracted projects in India, China, sub-Saharan Africa and South America.

Those projections still have Germany reducing its coal-fired usage. An assumption that will inevitably be proven as wanting as their destruction of North American forests.

I know where the real embarrassment resides.
 
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