Is Elizabeth line a "tube" line?

[justinbrett]

In my case Heathrow Express not running but the Elizabeth line tube is running. At least that's what Google maps saying re ELine and HExpress saying about their service.

Elizabeth line isn't a tube line (although some will debate it's part of the network).

For most discussions it's a trivial debate but in this context it matters - it's an train that runs underground, so it's actually managed by a company called MTR that is a rail operator.

Also it's designed to be driverless, but is not yet.

Basically it's its own thing.

 

[Quickstatus]

Basically it's its own thing.

It is and it isn't.

It uses the same fare structure as the Tube except for an airport surcharge and it is on the tube map.

There are other non tube trains on the tube map such as ThamesLink but which is annotated as "not operated by TfL". Elizabeth line is not annotated. I think the TLink is on the tube because it uses tube fare structure for the London zones.

HExpress is not on the Tube map and is a completely different fare structure (though it uses some of the tube rail line - green I think)

 

[justinbrett]

It is and it isn't.

It uses the same fare structure as the Tube except for an airport surcharge and it is on the tube map.

There are other non tube trains on the tube map such as ThamesLink but which is annotated as "not operated by TfL". Elizabeth line is not annotated. I think the TLink is on the tube because it uses tube fare structure for the London zones.

HExpress is not on the Tube map and is a completely different fare structure (though it uses some of the tube rail line - green I think)

The DLR is on the tube map....

Your post was in relation to train strikes - what map it appears on or what fare structure is used is not relevant.

TfL <> Tube.

It's like saying the Opal network in Sydney is the same as Sydney Trains.

Elizabeth Line is operated by MTR for TfL

Crossrail: Why Elizabeth line isn’t a new Tube line, according to TfL

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[Quickstatus]

Your post was in relation to train strikes - what map it appears on or what fare structure is used is not relevant.

It is relevant because when I looked at public transport alternatives after HExpress said not operating due to strike, Google maps said ELine operating. Then I went to the tube map to check the ELine and yes it's on the tube map and confirmed same tube fares.

ELine is on the tube map, uses the tube fare+airport fine. So I'll call it the ELine tube. My friends who lives in Maida Vale also said "just catch the tube into London"

The DLR is on the tube map....

It's irrelevant to me if DLR is on the tube map as I'm coming from LHR. In any case I can understand that DLR is on the tube map as it's fares are the same as the tube

While I understand that there are London train systems which are owned and operated separately, for me all I care about is how I get to London. And if the Eline is put due to a strike that would cheese me off too

 

[justinbrett]

It is relevant because when I looked at public transport alternatives after HExpress said not operating due to strike, Google maps said ELine operating. Then I went to the tube map to check the ELine and yes it's on the tube map and confirmed same tube fares.

ELine is on the tube map, uses the tube fare+airport fine. So I'll call it the ELine tube. My friends who lives in Maida Vale also said "just catch the tube into London"

If you catch the tube from LHR, it's the Piccadilly line. There's no surcharge.

It's on the Tube map as a double line, which indicates it's not a tube line, along with Overground, DLR etc.

Again, call it what you want. But it's not a tube line.

 

[Quickstatus]

But it's not a tube line.

I don't really care if it's officially a tube line pr not a tube line. It really is a moot point for my purposes
It's on the tube map.
It uses the same fares + airport fines
My friend in London calls it the tube
I'm not going to use the Piccadilly line because I'll have to change somewhere for bond Street - unless ELine stops due their employees going on strike.
I'll happily pay the £7 airport fine not to change trains

It's like the buses in Sydney. Many routes are operated by Transport NSW. Some routes are operated by private operators for transport NSW and may even use common bus stops. Fares are the same and the route maps are searchable on transport nsw trip planner. One goes on strike the other still operates. For all intents and purposes they are the same.

 

[justinbrett]

I don't really care if it's officially a tube line pr not a tube line. It really is a moot point for my purposes
It's on the tube map.
It uses the same fares + airport fines
My friend in London calls it the tube
I'm not going to use the Piccadilly line because I'll have to change somewhere for bond Street - unless ELine stops due their employees going on strike.
I'll happily pay the £7 airport fine not to change trains

So if it's the same fares why does the Piccadilly line cost £5.50 from LHR to Z1, but Elizabeth line cost £12.80 for the same journey? Clearly it's not the same.

The London Overground uses the same fares as the tube within the metro area, and they are definitely not tubes.

What you care about, what your one friend calls it, what is specific your particular circumstances, doesn't change facts. It's not a tube line. It's like a tube line, sure, but the whole reason I made this distinction was in the context of strikes, whether tube lines are running or not has no effect on the Elizabeth line because it's not a tube line. When I was in London a few months ago there was a rail outage west of Paddington, both the Heathrow Express and the Elizabeth line were suspended - the only way to get to LHR was the Piccadilly line.

It's like the buses in Sydney. Many routes are operated by Transport NSW. Some routes are operated by private operators for transport NSW and may even use common bus stops. Fares are the same and the route maps are searchable on transport nsw trip planner. One goes on strike the other still operates. For all intents and purposes they are the same.

Yes, but we wouldn't call the light rail a bus would we?

Elizabeth line isn't a tube line (although some will debate it's part of the network).

As I predicted

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes, but we wouldn't call the light rail a bus would we?

of course not. One runs on a rail line another does not.

As I predicted

I'm glad you agree with yourself

 

[justinbrett]

of course not. One runs on a rail line another does not.

Exactly.

Elizabeth line is traditional rail, it's powered by overhead wires.

The tube is powered by rail underneath.

This is the difference between traditional rail and tube/underground/subway/metro trains.

You can't run tube trains on the Elizabeth line rail, and vice versa.

It's a different mode of transport.

 

[Quickstatus]

The London Overground

It's like a tube line

In any case it's on the tube map.
Fares are tube fares +/- airport fine.
I don't care. I just want to get into London.
...
They are both trains visible on the tube network which is a train network last I saw and uses much of the same tracks. Buses don't appear on the tube network.
Similar to Sydney. The light rail appears on the rail network but not the bus network
And the Sydney metro and XPT while separate to the heavy suburban rails is also on the rail network map. There are some parts of the network where some trains can't go and others can. Big deal. I don't really care what type of train it is, driverless, power source, type of rail set.

 

[justinbrett]

In any case it's on the tube map.
Fares are tube fares +/- airport fine.
I don't care. I just want to get into London.

The Thames is on the tube map, perhaps it's a tube too.

 

[Flyfrequently]

£7 airport fine

I am not familiar with this @Quickstatus can you enlighten me?

 

[Quickstatus]

I am not familiar with this @Quickstatus can you enlighten me?

ELine has an airport access fee. Otherwise the ELine is same a tube fares

 

[Flyfrequently]

ELine has an airport access fee. Otherwise the ELine is same a tube fares

Thanks, last visit to London was 2019.

 

[justinbrett]

They are both trains visible on the tube network which is a train network last I saw and uses much of the same tracks.

Happy to agree they are both trains.

Not tubes.

But they don't share tracks - Elizabeth line does share tracks with Heathrow Express though.

 

[Quickstatus]

The Thames is on the tube map, perhaps it's a tube too.

Again, I see it in the tube map and it has the same fares as the tube for London zone1-6

And as I said above, The tube map actually annotates the ThamesLink as "not operated by TfL".

 

[Quickstatus]

Thanks, last visit to London was 2019.

I should elaborate that the difference between the Piccadilly line and the ELine is about £7. Both to/from LHR and Central London. If not tapping on/off at LHR the fares for ELine is the tube fare structure. So I call it the airport fine.

There is a quirk in that if tap off at Hatton (the nearest stop outside LHR) then tap back on at Hatton for LHR, or city if going the other way, the "fine" is only £3.

 

[justinbrett]

Again, I see it in the tube map and it has the same fares as the tube for London zone1-6

And as I said above, The tube map actually annotates the ThamesLink as "not operated by TfL".

You're conflating a mode of transport with a fare system.

London, like most major cities, synchronise fares between various modes of transport. Often they include other modes of transport on their network maps. In London's case, the non-tube lines are distinguished by double thin lines instead of a solid line. The overground is also included on the tube map, and no real Londoner would call the overground the tube.

I do actually like the Elizabeth Line, I was in London last year just after all three segments were opened (my friend lives in Manningtree, Essex so we did the full line from Liverpool St to Heathrow - required changing trains in Bond St & Paddington back then as they hadn't linked the segments yet). In future I won't bother with the Heathrow Express as the time saving isn't worth the extra money, assuming I don't book ahead.

But you don't care, so let's move on.

 

[Quickstatus]

you don't care

Correct.

 

[justinbrett]

Correct.

It seems like you do!