What do the banks really think of churners.

[oznflfan]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them. I'm on a good income and clean credit history, and all cards only asking min $6,000 limit (not even high end CC's). I have mind you churned all of these banks in last couple of years, opening card, min spend, get points, then close card. Wonder if Bank's are catching on to churners and this is catching up on me?

 

[Mr H]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them. I'm on a good income and clean credit history, and all cards only asking min $6,000 limit (not even high end CC's). I have mind you churned all of these banks in last couple of years, opening card, min spend, get points, then close card. Wonder if Bank's are catching on to churners and this is catching up on me?

It would be odd that three rival banks would simultaneously start declining you because of previous churning if they had not declined churners before. Being declined for three cards in a short space of time will not have done your longer term prospects much good, though.

 

[33kft]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them.

Did you apply one at a time, or simultaneously? There's not much you can draw from one person's situation, for all we know some bank may be reporting someone else's loan account as yours and these banks may think you're not disclosing it during the application process, but generally as mentioned above 3 applications within a month or two is going to have a much worse effect on each subsequent application given the implication (that you're seeking credit from multiple institutions and that these accounts are not being reported on CCR and therefore likely you were rejected - although it's probably a bit too soon for them to appear in CCR, but banks would likely have negative opinions of multiple applications within a short timespan as it rarely indicates a low credit risk).

 

[TomVexille]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them. I'm on a good income and clean credit history, and all cards only asking min $6,000 limit (not even high end CC's). I have mind you churned all of these banks in last couple of years, opening card, min spend, get points, then close card. Wonder if Bank's are catching on to churners and this is catching up on me?

Have you tried asking for a manual assessment on any of them?

 

[burmans]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them. I'm on a good income and clean credit history, and all cards only asking min $6,000 limit (not even high end CC's). I have mind you churned all of these banks in last couple of years, opening card, min spend, get points, then close card. Wonder if Bank's are catching on to churners and this is catching up on me?

When you say a clean credit history is that your belief or have you actually got your credit report? The bureaus do get things wrong from time to time!

And yes, multiple applications in a short time is not good, makes you look desperate.

 

[Mr H]

And yes, multiple applications in a short time is not good, makes you look desperate.

Could it also send red flags to ask for the minimum credit level? I have heard this is a bad idea.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

My view.
They've done their calculations, and if it were a problem, they'd do something about it

Completely agree, a simple change to the T&Cs would do the trick to prevent churning...

e.g. Customers must spend $3,000 and hold the card for 6 months in order to receive the bonus points in month 7.

May not dissuade everyone, but I suspect many would place it in the 'not worth it' bucket.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them.

It would be odd that three rival banks would simultaneously start declining you because of previous churning if they had not declined churners before.

BankSA is owned by Westpac, so perhaps not too surprising that both of them declined as I believe they use the same or similar systems. Was the ANZ application after the BankSA and Westpac declines?

 

[Lynda2475]

BankSA, St George and Bank of Melbourne all the same bank and same systems. If you apply and get any one of these you immediately put yourself in the exclusion period for all.

Whilst all owned by Westpac, the Westpac brand uses different system and holding wbc card doent exclude you from BSA, BoM or SGB.

 

[theblank]

I've applied for ANZ, BankSA and WBC in last month or two and been decined online for all of them. I'm on a good income and clean credit history, and all cards only asking min $6,000 limit (not even high end CC's). I have mind you churned all of these banks in last couple of years, opening card, min spend, get points, then close card. Wonder if Bank's are catching on to churners and this is catching up on me?

There is much more too it than good income and clean history, There is also job/residency stability, industry, postcode factors that are very important, as well as other personal factors. None of which alone will make or break a deal (mostly) but I assure you, a hospitality worker in North Qld is gonna have a much weaker application than a public servant in Canberra, should all other factors be identical. The difference being one works in an unstable industry and location where the population is transient. Both huge negatives on a unsecured finance credit score.

 

[Mr H]

The difference being one works in an unstable industry and location where the population is transient.

You are describing the public servant in Canberra, right?

 

[burmans]

Could it also send red flags to ask for the minimum credit level? I have heard this is a bad idea.

Well I always ask for the minimum so not in my case!

 

[Lynda2475]

Could it also send red flags to ask for the minimum credit level? I have heard this is a bad idea.

Not in my experence but that may depend on the type of card. I only apply for the premium "black" cards and the minimum credit limit is generally $15k, Ive never asked for more and never been rejected.

 

[CaptJCool]

of recent times it has been reverting to how it was some years ago. I saw on one application I had recently when it come to enter my other CC liabilities, it already had them auto-filled where previously you either had to list them one by one or even combined limits as a whole.

big data at work, At least you know they know.

any idea how long lapsed or unused cards sit on the record before they extinguish ?

 

[andye]

big data at work, At least you know they know.

any idea how long lapsed or unused cards sit on the record before they extinguish ?

If closed 5 years. If open but unused, they stay on (though the credit check for opening will fall off after 5 years)

 

[GSP]

big data at work, At least you know they know.

any idea how long lapsed or unused cards sit on the record before they extinguish ?

Yes, as andye said above, my experience is similar in that I've been observing my applications (and cards) from 2016 drop off at the 5 year mark.

 

[exceladdict]

Yes, as andye said above, my experience is similar in that I've been observing my applications (and cards) from 2016 drop off at the 5 year mark.

I believe it's 2 years from account closure for accounts, but 5 years for enquiries

 

[GSP]

I believe it's 2 years from account closure for accounts, but 5 years for enquiries

I've just checked my CreditSimple and CreditSavvy accounts and you are correct for both. 2 years it appears for accounts and 5 years for enquiries.

 

[astroboyong]

I've been churning for couple of years now.
I usually apply 2-3 cards per year. Spend the min requirement, get the bonus points, hold the card for 9-11months, and cancel it. Then I apply other cards in the next year, and keep repeating.

To be on the same page, can anyone explain to me what does people to be considered churning, to be specific:
- how many cards do you apply per year?
- and how long do you cancel the card after applying?

 

[GSP]

I've been churning for couple of years now.
I usually apply 2-3 cards per year. Spend the min requirement, get the bonus points, hold the card for 9-11months, and cancel it. Then I apply other cards in the next year, and keep repeating.

To be on the same page, can anyone explain to me what does people to be considered churning, to be specific:
- how many cards do you apply per year?
- and how long do you cancel the card after applying?

It really is a subjective term but at its basics involve cycling through CC's by opening a Card account, meeting minimum spend, sometime after then closing it and going onto the next card, however one can have many cards at a time.

So you could only repeat this once every 12 months and continually do it, but you'd then be a low frequency churner. I do around 6 to 7 cards per year (sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less). I'd probably be considered a high frequency churner and then I'm sure there are a few that go through more cards per year.

Regarding cancelling, if the card means absolutely nothing, i.e it is a low earner, you've got your points and offers nothing else such as waiver of FX fee, then I close immediately, if it does have some benefit I enjoy I may hang on for a bit longer.

I tend not to have a card for more than a year to avoid the 2nd year fee, but I do have a card go up to a year, partly for auto payments to be setup and also to ensure I have "something" in case I get a failure and don't have any other card, and particularly as I only get minimum credit limit, so if I only have one card and it has 6k limit and I've used say $5k (some awaiting the payment due and some in the current month), I don't want to get caught out.

Of course the longer you hold the card, the longer you wait to repeat the same benefit for the same card down the track. I think I compromise that quite well and only a few times had to juggle or do something I ordinarily wouldn't (i.e pay my CC balance out before the due date to free up credit limit).