What is up with Etihad's Australian operations?

[MissingScurrah]

As a formerly (pre-COVID) Etihad loyalist to get to Europe I've been following their post-COVID Australian strategy with great interest and frankly bafflement.

Take Sydney for instance, where we used to see double-daily A380 service to Abu Dhabi (996 seats per day) but we are now seeing the horribly outdated 777 only once a day (at just 370 seats). This massive reduction in capacity made sense about 18 months ago, but now with demand booming and flights to Europe and North America more or less running at pre-pandemic levels this willful surrender of the market strikes me as quite odd.

It also seems quite perplexing that they continue to use the comparatively inefficient and old 777s on these long routes instead of their newer, far more efficient (and far more comfortable) A350s which at 371 seats have virtually identical capacity.

I just can't make sense of what they're thinking here? Run limited capacity into a booming market where they have unutilised landing rights, and despite the high premium demand chuck on their oldest, most uncomfortable planes on a 14 hour journey.

I was thinking there's got to be something to this? Does anyone have any knowledge that might explain why they're making these decisions? Or is it just as strange as it looks?

 

[Daver6]

I think you've answered your own question here. They don't need to put their shiniest products on the Australian market. There is a lack of competition and more demand than supply so people will just take what they're given.

 

[UP4014]

I think you've answered your own question here. They don't need to put their shiniest products on the Australian market. There is a lack of competition and more demand than supply so people will just take what they're given.

But is there more demand and not enough seats via Abu Dhabi for those who want, there seems to be about 25 airlines flying in and out of Australia and I think the middle east demand has dropped off ie QF moved back to Singapore include Rome and restarted the Perth London flights. Why wouldn't they put their shiny products on this run and be the best? I guess as you say they don't care enough.

I'm not sure that's why I'm asking.

 

[levelnine]

My guess is Etihad got rid of a lot of planes during COVID-19 (though I may be wrong — they certainly got rid of a lot of A380s) and simply don't have the fleet to bring back their pre-COVID-19 capacity.

I wish they could bring back that capacity because they are an excellent award redemption option to Europe.

As to why they are running their older product to Australia, that would probably be a result of complex fleet planning issues. As we see with Qantas, they are running their oldest product (the unrefurbed A380) on some of their most premium routes at the moment (SYD-LAX).

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Welcome on board AFF Airlines.
Love your handle!
PS: its also to do with fares.
With a limited number of seats, fares will remain high.
Airlines won't spend money unnecessarily, as they know with the limited seating, they can charge more.
Also, the Aust govt has stopped QR's request for more access in flights to Aust, so maybe A EY falls into this catagory, don't know if they lost access to the number of flights when Covid came, maybe its now harder for them to add more flights.
===
Maybe get SQ to SIN, and then the AY's more modern fleet from there to AUH.

 

[Scarlett]

How many people booking the EY flight will know what kind of plane they are flying on? How many will know there exists an alternative EY aircraft? (not many and even fewer…)

The key question is why the drop in available seats, not the type of metal being used. Unless there’s an EY exec posting on AFF it’s likely a mystery we’ll never know the answer to.

 

[MissingScurrah]

Welcome on board AFF Airlines.
Love your handle!
PS: its also to do with fares.
With a limited number of seats, fares will remain high.
Airlines won't spend money unnecessarily, as they know with the limited seating, they can charge more.
Also, the Aust govt has stopped QR's request for more access in flights to Aust, so maybe A EY falls into this catagory, don't know if they lost access to the number of flights when Covid came, maybe its now harder for them to add more flights.
===
Maybe get SQ to SIN, and then the AY's more modern fleet from there to AUH.

haha thank you!

I heard the Transport Minister say on 7.30 the other night that EY still had the legal right to use their pre-Covid capacity slots but just weren't utilising them so they mustn't be effected like QR have been. Very odd circumstances indeed. I recently went to CGK to get a really cheap J deal to Europe with EY; still had the rubbish old 777s CGK-AUH but at barely a quarter of the asking price from Aus it was still well worth it.

Post automatically merged: Sep 11, 2023

I think you've answered your own question here. They don't need to put their shiniest products on the Australian market. There is a lack of competition and more demand than supply so people will just take what they're given.

hmmm... seems like a poor way of gaining premium traffic when people can chose QR or EK instead (although their 777 J is admittedly even worse in many respects). I guess time will tell if that strategy works out for them

 

[SCM]

If you just check Etihad fleet info, they have more widebodies on order than what they are flying now, so I would say they are under significant capacity constraints, however as 350-1000s come in, they may well fly those to Australia, or maybe the dreamliners.

I am curious what equipment they did fly prior to COVID, does anyone know? I know they kind of retired some 777s but are now bringing them back. It is very strange to fly a350s to India but 777s to Australia - just for fuel efficiency reasons, it makes no sense to me, forget about which is more premium.

I also would note that EY tends to have the best J reward availability on VFF lately, I'm not sure if maybe they feel the capacity is not being used, maybe passengers are overlooking EY, not sure. They are also doing very nice J sales to asian ports (ex AU obviously).

If anyone has flown EY recently, maybe you can comment on how full the aircraft are?

 

[yachty]

I heard the Transport Minister say on 7.30 the other night that EY still had the legal right to use their pre-Covid capacity slots but just weren't utilising them so they mustn't be effected like QR have been. Very odd circumstances indeed.

Yes, the UAE-Australia agreement allows something like 156 flights per week to carriers of each side (to SYD, BNE, MEL, PER... unlimited to everywhere else). It was last reported that the UAE allocated about 1/3rd of those rights to EY, or around 56ish flights per week.

Clearly nowhere near that is being used by EY at the moment. And the Qatari agreement is a whole other kettle of fish.

If anyone has flown EY recently, maybe you can comment on how full the aircraft are?

Haven't flown them recently, but the BITRE stats for the last 3 months of available data:

Mar 2023 Inbound 82.7% / Outbound 88.2%
Feb 2023 Inbound 99.1% / Outbound 74.2%
Jan 2023 Inbound 100% / Outbound 92.3%

 

[Mattg]

Etihad's post-COVID strategy is to be much more disciplined with adding/restoring capacity, with more of a focus on profitability and sustainability after some heavy losses last decade.

That said, there is clearly demand to/from Australia and Etihad plans to increase its fleet size in the coming years, so I would expect to see an A380 sent to Sydney and Brisbane or Perth returning in the coming years.

 

[TMP]

I am curious what equipment they did fly prior to COVID, does anyone know?

They used to have the 789 out of MEL. Have J booked in the 777 pre-Xmas. Know it won't be as good, but was able to get 2 x reward seats via VA, and obviously better than Y. We get the 388 from AUH to LHR so there is a silver lining!

 

[docjames]

EY are heavily controlling capacity across the network - both fleet and crew availability, but also with a significant focus on profitability (that wasn't there pre-covid.....)

 

[SCM]

I understand and it makes sense, but what could be more profitable than flying A350s to Australia? We are absolutely the most overpriced market (by far), a very premium market one might say, and AU is nowhere near pre-covid international capacity, with demand being 4x pre-covid amount by some estimates.

Surely it makes the best possible business decision to fly here over anywhere else?

 

[levelnine]

with demand being 4x pre-covid amount by some estimates.

I agree with your sentiment, but in another thread Matt shows Etihad selling MEL-LHR tickets in Y for $1288, a shockingly low figure by today's standards. That seems to suggest the demand isn't there for Eithad, at least in Y.

 

[Thibault]

They used to have the 789 out of MEL. Have J booked in the 777 pre-Xmas. Know it won't be as good, but was able to get 2 x reward seats via VA, and obviously better than Y. We get the 388 from AUH to LHR so there is a silver lining!

The 787 seems to be back on AU routes sporadically.

I flew J MEL-AUH / AUH-SYD last month with EY - and yes, the cabin is showing its age but the service, F&B and new bedding are making up for the old cabin layout.

Make sure that you choose a seat that is orientated towards the fuselage and not toward the way of passengers and cabin crew.

https://www.etihad.com/content/dam/eag/etihadairways/etihadcom/Global/products/fleet/etihad-b777-300er-2class-v2-map.jpg

I chose 14A and 14K.

I then flew the 787 J Cabin to MAD as well as the new 350 J Cabin from CDG - night and day compared to the 777!

 

[HS-TQE]

I understand and it makes sense, but what could be more profitable than flying A350s to Australia? We are absolutely the most overpriced market (by far), a very premium market one might say, and AU is nowhere near pre-covid international capacity, with demand being 4x pre-covid amount by some estimates.

Surely it makes the best possible business decision to fly here over anywhere else?

I think there is also the factor that EY are largely on its own this time after losing their "major" partner status of VA to QR.

Whilst EY may still be a now (demoted) 'secondary' partner of VA/Velocity as an 'earn and burn' option (I still see some EY options on VA's search). VA's preference is to send most of their customers to QR flights with EY flights listed as 'secondary' options.

 

[IrishPete]

If you try to book with Etihad flying out of Sydney, it often routes you via Melbourne.

I've cut out the middle person and booked from Melbourne, and am organising my own connections from Canberra. (We'd drive to Sydney for Etihad flights, but I'm not driving to Sydney to be flown to Melbourne and adding many many hours to the time spent in airports...)

 

[TMP]

I flew J MEL-AUH / AUH-SYD last month with EY - and yes, the cabin is showing its age but the service, F&B and new bedding are making up for the old cabin layout.

Has the new Armani mattress topper found its way onboard yet? Was due to be "later in 2023".

 

[Thibault]

Has the new Armani mattress topper found its way onboard yet? Was due to be "later in 2023".

Absolutely - got the new topper and duvet on my four flights.

 

[Warragul]

I understand and it makes sense, but what could be more profitable than flying A350s to Australia? We are absolutely the most overpriced market (by far), a very premium market one might say, and AU is nowhere near pre-covid international capacity, with demand being 4x pre-covid amount by some estimates.

Surely it makes the best possible business decision to fly here over anywhere else?

If they are making money with 777, why would they? How is overpriced measured?

Not knowing the total capacity of 777 v A350, maybe freight capacity is a factor which is a money spinner.