What is Virgin Australia's strategy (post-administration)?

[pauly7]

I will always think of Bonza as an annoying mosquito now!

Do you think the court cases had an impact on the sale timeline not going to plan? (Not the class action, the other ones?).

I have to say the humour wasn’t me I stole that mosquito analogy from an analyst along the way

Which ‘court case’? (Almost sad one has to ask this!).

If you are talking about the allegations and actions that were taken earlier this year of bullying against Virgin and the CEO, look callously I don’t the bean counters really care. I wouldn’t (if I was buying).

1- At the end of the day the Bain installed CEO is completely replaceable.

2- The CEO is well known to have carried some interesting baggage from their previous roles, a Google will unveil that to anyone - so net - was probably not a surprise anyway and either way they can be neutralised quickly and I’d suggest with minimal impact to the Bain controlled entity.

Is it a good look to have these sort of things bubble up while you are trying to sell? No. But from a sale process I doubt any material impact. Certainly embarrassing but that’s probably it.

 

[eastwest101]

I have to say the humour wasn’t me I stole that mosquito analogy from an analyst along the way

Which ‘court case’? (Almost sad one has to ask this!).

If you are talking about the allegations and actions that were taken earlier this year of bullying against Virgin and the CEO, look callously I don’t the bean counters really care. I wouldn’t (if I was buying).

1- At the end of the day the Bain installed CEO is completely replaceable.

2- The CEO is well known to have carried some interesting baggage from their previous roles, a Google will unveil that to anyone - so net - was probably not a surprise anyway and either way they can be neutralised quickly and I’d suggest with minimal impact to the Bain controlled entity.

Is it a good look to have these sort of things bubble up while you are trying to sell? No. But from a sale process I doubt any material impact. Certainly embarrassing but that’s probably it.

So you are saying that all the "macros", or things outside of Bain's control, e.g. interest rates, inflation, other competitor activities, price of fuel, exchange rates, labour shortages etc would have been the main contributor to the lack of interest/success in the roadshow?

 

[anyonebutqantas]

What happened to the bullying lawsuit against Hrdlicka? is i still going or did it settle or get dismissed?

 

[Saab34]

Is that the old Chief Pilot who wanted 1 Million dollars plus Gold Status Velocity?

 

[hb133]

Which ‘court case’? (Almost sad one has to ask this!).

I understand that the Qatar women's court case is also potentially causing an issue with the IPO timeline.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Well… VA’s strategy certainly doesn’t seem to be one where they want to foster a relationship with their most frequent flyers. (Or maybe they do, and I’m just not one of them!! )

So much time wasted on silly 1-point promos, yet not a single email… even auto-generated, to recognise me or my business. Just hitting 3000 SCs for the first 8 months of the year - no pooling or DSCs - and not even a ‘hi, how you going?’

As I mentioned in another thread, once my personal goal of seeing how many SCs I can get is over at the end of the year, I really have little incentive to stay with VA.

Perhaps there’ll be some incentive coming for a new tier? Will be interesting to see.

 

[jase05]

Well… VA’s strategy certainly doesn’t seem to be one where they want to foster a relationship with their most frequent flyers. (Or maybe they do, and I’m just not one of them!! )

So much time wasted on silly 1-point promos, yet not a single email… even auto-generated, to recognise me or my business. Just hitting 3000 SCs for the first 8 months of the year - no pooling or DSCs - and not even a ‘hi, how you going?’

As I mentioned in another thread, once my personal goal of seeing how many SCs I can get is over at the end of the year, I really have little incentive to stay with VA.

Perhaps there’ll be some incentive coming for a new tier? Will be interesting to see.

I have never got much recognition but TBH I’m not really after it either.
Mrs Jase and myself are both Plats and rack up thousands of SC’s most years and I’ve never received much from them. I’m happy though as long as the service and quality is good and have no reason to switch over to the opposition. All of my work travel is with QF so it’s nice to seperate business and leisure sometimes

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I have never got much recognition but TBH I’m not really after it either.
Mrs Jase and myself are both Plats and rack up thousands of SC’s most years and I’ve never received much from them. I’m happy though as long as the service and quality is good and have no reason to switch over to the opposition. All of my work travel is with QF so it’s nice to seperate business and leisure sometimes

I posted in the meal thread that it’s the lounge staff and cabin crew recognising me now. Shame corporate can’t be bothered. They still send me emails saying I can upgrade to Economy X for as little as $30 or whatever as part of getting ready for my next flight. Which is already in business!

An account manager would be nice. For when the IFE doesn’t work on half my flights. Someone that I can at least write to and won’t get a canned response.

 

[jase05]

I posted in the meal thread that it’s the lounge staff and cabin crew recognising me now. Shame corporate can’t be bothered. They still send me emails saying I can upgrade to Economy X for as little as $30 or whatever as part of getting ready for my next flight. Which is already in business!

An account manager would be nice. For when the IFE doesn’t work on half my flights. Someone that I can at least write to and won’t get a canned response.

Yeah staff and crew recognise us and I think that helps us nearly always get our meal selections first regardless of where we are seated in J but I do agree corporate is very sloppy.
I signed up to the VA Business flyer program and am currently Tier 2 which is $10k-$50k spend and as it’s only my wife and I we won’t get to Tier 3 but I seldom have any correspondence from VA which is a bit poor IMO

 

[pauly7]

So you are saying that all the "macros", or things outside of Bain's control, e.g. interest rates, inflation, other competitor activities, price of fuel, exchange rates, labour shortages etc would have been the main contributor to the lack of interest/success in the roadshow?

Certainly contributors, but think of it this way - all of these should have been forecasted, war gamed, hedged - whatever you want to call it. This is precisely why the big shooters get paid the big bucks, to make sure their business has a chair when the music slows*

*10 points if anyone knows the movie this quote is from!

 

[RooFlyer]

all of these should have been forecasted, war gamed, hedged - whatever you want to call it.

Modelled? Possibly with sensitivity analysis by the really big shooters ( or at least by their first year analysts) with a side of Monte Carlo just for interest sake.

 

[jakeseven7]

Certainly contributors, but think of it this way - all of these should have been forecasted, war gamed, hedged - whatever you want to call it. This is precisely why the big shooters get paid the big bucks, to make sure their business has a chair when the music slows*

*10 points if anyone knows the movie this quote is from!

So basically it’s a very polite way of saying it’s managements job (in this case VA2’s) to manage reactions to external environment changes .

Yup and clearly they’ve fluffed some of it, especially in the IR area.

Maintenance also would be under the spotlight this week after the issues with the 737s….!

 

[eastwest101]

So basically it’s a very polite way of saying it’s managements job (in this case VA2’s) to manage reactions to external environment changes .

Yup and clearly they’ve fluffed some of it, especially in the IR area.

Maintenance also would be under the spotlight this week after the issues with the 737s….!

Indeed, show me an airline in the world without labour shortages and IR issues at the moment. Obviously a hang-over from the pandemic and administration process with a lot of voluntary and involuntary redundancies accross the board. Obviously the pay cuts that went with administration would have affected staff morale and created a shortage of staff.

The fake certification thing from the AOG UK vendor caught out a lot of Airlines, don't think it's to lay false certification stuff on Virgin.

 

[HS-TQE]

Iconically the ACCC submission has just been approved. This means that VA and QQ can work together on some routes. It also means that QQ will be operating for both VA and QF again (something they've done in the past).

Virgin Australia & Alliance Airlines

On 23 October 2020 Virgin Australia and Alliance Airlines (the Applicants) applied for authorisation to cooperate in relation to the provision of services on 41 regional routes and two short-haul international routes (Relevant Routes). Details of the routes are provided in the application which...

www.accc.gov.au

Looking just over 3 years on, that VA/QQ agreement although approved was never implemented, especially with the news of the QF group acquiring that 20% stake all those years ago.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

re: recognition, and like @jase05 I'm not particularly fussed about it, but I do notice it particularly when I have to call VA or VFF. Perhaps entering my VFF numbers jumps me to the front of the queue, but if it does, it certainly has never translated to an agent acknowledging or recognising my status.

I find it curious not because I need some empty "tHaNkS fOr bEiNG a VaLUeD pLaTiNUM" but more because I'm genuinely curious/unsure/doubtful it translates to better service. I tend to know what I'm doing and what the policies are when I call in which makes it easy to navigate through the conversation. If I didn't, would the status result in someone who knows them for me helping me? Who knows?

I get that VA isn't positioning itself at the top of the market, but mid-market inherently requires some attention to those at the top of said market, and attention to top status holders doesn't seem to factor into the strategy. Or perhaps they've determined it unnecessary because most people -- like me -- won't be "particularly fussed" about it as long as we can use our core benefits.

On board, btw, with both VA and QF, the best I ever get in Y is, "welcome back," if that.

 

[RAM]

While overseas on a J redemption I decided to try extending my return date out a couple of weeks.

Did I notice a massive drop in the 'capability' of the CC staff to:
1. Understand what I was saying (my non-Philipino accent threw 2 staff massively, having to resort to very short sentences max 8 words, repeated several times over).
2. Once picking up what I was saying then actually comprehending what I was asking.
3. The IVR queuing system not being structured in any logical way.

All up I spoke with many, many CCAs over nearly 2.5 hours.

I was ringing from the US using (TG) a US 1800 number on a Tuesday morning Sydney time.

Before I rang I checked to see if there were any dates with over 75% of J seats still unsold on each of the flights. Surprisingly there were multiple days which met these conditions so I thought my chances of being able to redeem would be very good. Never assume.

First curious point - calling a US number saw me put through to the Australian domestic sales queue. I am not sure that is the most logical choice.

When finally answered (just over 20 minutes) and repeating what I was after many, many times (changing a VFF redemption return date) - including resorting to the Alpha, Baker, Charlie method of giving my booking ID as well as my name, departure & arrival points - the operator only then declared they were solely domestic sales. I did not say anything but wondered why after I stated at the very beginning I wanted to change a VFF points redemption booking - they continued for around another 15 minutes.

They put me onto a queue again. Much better wait time perhaps just 12 to 13 minutes but same issue with being understood. This has not really ever been an issue with Philipines, India, Pakistan, Glasgow (now that's an accent) CCs to name a few.

Devolved to same Alpha, Baker, Charlie approach and after perhaps 10 to 15 minutes they understood what I was after, or so I incorrectly assumed. Trouble was they said that there were zero J seats available on any of the days and flights I had up on the screen in front of me, much, much later when the CCA finally found the correct flights, direction (no I said from the US to Sydney, never from Sydney to the US as if you look at my existing booking - my return booked flights are just to days away and the flights from Sydney were a month ago....)

You get the idea.

Then the CCA annouced it would cost my $XYZA to buy the flights.

I was somewhat depressed to say the least as the finding flights issue had eaten up close to 40 minutes alone. I asked to speak with team leader/supervisor/manager. None available currently but one had looked at my booking & I was in the wrong area - I should be dealing with redemptions.

This seemed to be becoming more like one of the sad tales of woe from 2020-2022 of dealing with Q CCa in South Africa etc.

Then without any warning, I was back in some sort of queue. As I had fastidiously asked each time for the CCA to spell their name and mention the time - I never got hung up on. Was that a good or bad thing? This second wasted time CCA made me wonder.

Finally answered by another CCA who understood me perfectly and was from the 'Redemptions' team. Things are looking up I thought. Never assume.

Ok, cost of changing redemption booking $60 + potentially 'fees' due to FX movements. No problem.

'Sorry, but there are no reward seats available on any of the days you mentioned on any of the flights'.

- You are looking at HNL to SYD not SYD to HNL aren't you?

Silence, sound of key strokes, 'I've found some available seats on Xth Sept'.

Success!!! Not so quickly.

'Your booking won't let me change it'.

A good number of 'Can I put you on hold for a few minutes', later.

'I need to cancel your return flights and book it as a new redemption'. Luckily there were more than enough points in the account to cover the new redemption without the cancelled points being processed - I still haven't worked up the courage to check.

Then, 'Oh that's strange, all the available seats on your first flight have gone.'

Now there were actually 5 different times for the first flight all (on this particular date) with at least half the J seats available and I'd never had an issue with redeeming for one. The HNL-SYD leg not so lucky but for some reason they were there in quantity.

After suggesting to check with team leader etc and another perhaps 25 minutes I gave up and suggested I'd just buy a ticket using money separately in Y as it is only a 35 minute (in the air) flight.

'You won't get any extra points back.' Least of my worries as the 2.5 hour mark (phone now on charger for some time) fast approached.

Flight cost $69. BUT baggage allowance is/was 2 x 23kg bags not 2 x 32 kg bags. As luck would have it - first time my bags were travelling light on the return journey (I even filled up 1.5 bags with polystrene to recycle with our local Council in Sydney and protect bags from getting crushed).

I really hope that VA II isn't using the same consultants that Q used for its call centre 'realignment', (shudder) enhancement.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Oof. This reads exactly like so many sagas with QF during that hideous period we do not speak of, and unfortunately rings a bit true to me as well with VA (first time I tried to use my FlyAhead benefit as a Platinum, I was confidently but incorrectly told by an otherwise friendly CCA to pay the change fee or take a hike). Such a simple request that should so easily be manageable online but isn't -- at either of our two major carriers -- because of woeful/non-existent investment in tech requiring calls to centres staffed with agents who often despite their best intentions cannot understand let alone process any request that doesn't follow a very narrow playbook.

It perpetually amazes me that these MBA brains who come in and deem these offshore call centres wherever they are with poorly paid/trained/empowered staff to be so efficient never clue into the fact that a one-off plus perhaps modest maintenance investment in better tech -- that will hold them back forever until they eventually invest and they will -- would significantly lower the need for human interaction altogether.

Sorry to hear this, hope you enjoyed Hawaii (still in my own post-aloha blues), and how fun are those short HA 717 hops?

 

[Saab34]

So when are these old F100s going? Looks like one went last week so that leaves 5. The 737-700s have all been delivered long ago have they not?

 

[Harrison_133]

So when are these old F100s going? Looks like one went last week so that leaves 5. The 737-700s have all been delivered long ago have they not?

They’re being phased out of RPT services pretty soon, apart from the Onslow flights and the odd Newman run.

3 aircraft are apparently sticking around until 2025 to serve the FIFO ports waiting for upgrades to 737/A320 capability.

 

[ben95]

While overseas on a J redemption I decided to try extending my return date out a couple of weeks.

Ok thanks for sharing that. I was going to call in to move my 2x J redemption on SG by a few days but now I'm not going to touch that reservation with a 10-foot pole, especially I don't have enough points in my account to cover another 2 J rewards to the same destination.