Wheelchair Assistance when you don't need Wheelchair!

[medhead]

I'm still trying to figure that out myself

Of course, personally I don't have a problem with the statement. Just I also don't think there is a need to cloud it's meaning.

 

[serfty]

Certainly have seen similar at other airports - Miami Florida stands out.

Moreover, often I see the pre-boarded wheelchair PAX being assisted by half a dozen or so 'helpers' who board at the same time

 

[mannej]

<redacted off topic references>


All that proves is the alleged person did not use the wheelchair off the aircraft. For all that we know she may have had a friend or relative waiting for her at the gate to assist. I can still see nothing but accusations with no firm proof that the accused scammed her way into the OP's original seat.

Again, I will state that the OP is not the authority on who does and doesn't require a wheelchair. In my eyes, it is still allegations, and to which I think with the evidence that has been presented specifically in the case of the OP, I still believe it is extremely harsh, bordering on rude. As always, there are 2 sides of the story.

 

[Blinky]

Well with an ageing population, we will all have to get used to this. For me, I would rather hobble on to the plane than use a wheelchair, but many will take any opportunity to get any "entitlement" they possibly can.

 

[mickeyc747]

I have to agree with the OP in regards to being moved it was wrong the OP is WP1 (sorry if I have it wrong) DJ now blocks off row 4,5,6 DEF for those passengers that need assiatnce which leaves all of Row 3 for Plats & Golds and the 4,5,6 ABC. QF should do the same thing, as the OP flies alot with them. Whilst I would never want to discriminate against any person. QF could do exactly what DJ does and look after their WP WP1 and CLs. Row 24 would not have been so bad for the wheel chair pax either.

 

[Kangol]

My wife's grandmother needs wheelchair assistance. Not because she can't walk but because she can't walk long distances. So she can walk slowly off an aircraft to a wheelchair waiting on the aerobridge.

I also read about someone on crutches or something like that, who could get around the airport ok, but couldn't get down an aircraft aisle. An example of someone who needs assistance via wheelchair to get to a seat.

I think a key point is that these are not necessarily wheelchair confined people but people who need assistance to travel. In this case, we can't be sure what factors were involved, what assistance was required. Perhaps they could walk to the front door but then got into a wheelchair.

I think the key issue is that said person did not wait for everyone to disembark which I understand is part of the conditions of requiring assistance. Regardless of the factors involved, if the person did not wait and breached said conditions, then of course they are in the wrong.

You might then ask "why do they have to wait?" - a suitable reply would be "why do they have to sit in EC?". They could just as easily walk a few rows or more if they can walk onto the plane and to the front of Y.

It has been said that DJ do it (hold pax back), why can't QF do it?

I agree with the OP's annoyance, I would be interested to see how QF respond.

On a 737 flight today, I was in 4D and the person in 5D was someone that required assistance. I was one of the first few to board and said person was not at the gate and was already seated prior to general boarding. Upon landing I heard this person say something light hearted about being the first on and last off, suggesting it wasn't the first time this occurred.
FWIW 4B/E were empty and 4C was a PS.
Why does someone needing assistance need to be in the front row of Y?

 

[medhead]

As I said it depends on the assistance required. Some people need assistance to the door but walk from there. Others have to be taken to the seat. What we don't know is where this person fit in. What's to say they didn't walk to the door and take a wheelchair from there as that was when assistance was required.

As for the seat location on a 737. The D seats are wheelchair access seats in rows 5 to about 8 or 10. This is clearly marked on the seat map.

 

[drron]

Though the 763 seat map says that all aisle seats in economy except front rows are accessible.This person was in a front row-23B.

 

[Kangol]

As I said it depends on the assistance required. Some people need assistance to the door but walk from there. Others have to be taken to the seat. What we don't know is where this person fit in. What's to say they didn't walk to the door and take a wheelchair from there as that was when assistance was required.

As for the seat location on a 737. The D seats are wheelchair access seats in rows 5 to about 8 or 10. This is clearly marked on the seat map.

What a way to completely miss my point of the pax not waiting for the rest of the plane to disembark.

I am in no way disputing the level of assistance required. I'm thinking you didn't even read my whole post, made parts of it up and typed a reply. Sigh.

Yes, the 737 wheelchair access seat location is clearly marked on the seat map:
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738-12J156Y.pdf
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738J-12J156Y.pdf

Just like the wheelchair access seats are clearly marked on the seat map for a 767:
Seat Maps for the Boeing 767-300 | Qantas

Someone who can walk to/from the door to their seat should be able to walk to any seat, not just forward Y ones.

I'd be interested to see how you'd react if this situation happened to you...

 

[medhead]

What a way to completely miss my point of the pax not waiting for the rest of the plane to disembark.

I think you'll find that you have completely missed my point. If they don't have to be taken from the aircraft in a wheelchair but are going to walk to the wheelchair waiting for them at the door them there is no need for them to wait. It all depends on the level of assistance that is required. If they have only asked for assistance in the terminal then it's stupid to demand they get some other level of assistance that is not required. You and the OP have mo idea what happened with that passenger.

You claim there is some rule about waiting. Prove it.

As for the idea of walking to any other seat, that is a choice made by the airline staff not the passenger. The OP is going to raise that with the airline.

Though the 763 seat map says that all aisle seats in economy except front rows are accessible.This person was in a front row-23B.

Yes, but I was referring to a comment made about 5D on a 737.

 

[JohnK]

I actually think its quite harsh calling someone the lowest form of life for doing something such as this.

I thought you would.

Flame me and don't worry about people scamming for their own good without any regard for others.

 

[JohnK]

My wife's grandmother needs wheelchair assistance. Not because she can't walk but because she can't walk long distances. So she can walk slowly off an aircraft to a wheelchair waiting on the aerobridge.

I know there are people that require wheelchair assistance for a very good reason.

Did you bother to read the OP?

I provided facts not speculation.

Facts:

- Lady has an international to domestic transfer in SYD and requests wheelchair assistance
- Allocated 23B on SYD-MEL flight (with vacant 23A mind you) displacing me
- Gate agent was surprised when I enquired
- When gate agent in MEL brought up her record the note for wheelchair assistance was still there
- There was never at any time notification in MEL that wheelchair assistance was required. She got better all of a sudden? Why?

Speculation:

- Too lazy to walk in LAX or the connection from international to domestic in SYD?
- Had 74E allocated LAX-SYD and 54E SYD-MEL and wanted better seats?
- Apparently also had a MEL-ADL flight straight after.

Something here is not quite right. I am demanding an explanation as it is my right after giving up my rightful seat. I was given an explanation that someone requiring wheelchair assistance needed my seat. I accepted it until I witnessed what had happened on board.

She is just unlucky that she displaced me out of my rightful seat. I do not mind giving it up if someone actually did require it. But wouldn't 24B, 25B, 26, 24J, 25J, 26J etc all have been suitable? Why 23B? If you can walk to 23B you can walk to 24B just as easily. What if there are 6 wheelchair assistance requests? All can't sit in 23B now can they?

And I do have a right to report her as well whatever the reason. I will be sending feedback to Qantas about this incident and it is not going to weigh on my conscience. I just hope the gate agent files a report as well. And he also felt so bad about it that he gave me on op-up on my next flight.

And also there are a number of people on AFF that clearly do not like me. Don't make it so obvious on these threads and just be aware the feeling is mutual.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I agree with JohnK.

People have seen a loop hole, and are now starting to exploit it.
Much like in the USA, where people take 'guide/assistance pets' on-board to avoid the fee for putting them in the hold.

 

[dfcatch]

My mother walks with a cane (at the best of times), but quite often will book a wheelchair for big airports as she can't walk long distances.

However she walks from the aerobridge to the seat and vv.

She also knows she must be at the gate 10 mins before boarding commences so that she can be boarded without inconveniencing other pax.

Upon arrival she knows she must usually wait until other pax have disembarked for the same reasons (even if she is in J). After other pax have disembarked there is a wheelchair waiting to meet her in the aerobridge.

MEL & SYD have the "old people movers" which are efficient within the terminal.

QF will usually allocate a "forwardish" seat, but AFAIK never bump anyone out of it.

At booking they do specifically ask if she can make her own way from the aerobridge to the seat - as opposed to someone who needs physical assistance from the chair to the seat.

QF have a very helpful pamphlet which details the various levels of assistance available.

My understanding is for the JohnK experience to happen - the lady would have had to specify "assistance to seat" and I would have thought was required to board first and disembark last (which I understand is the usual procedure).

 

[mannej]

John - don't make things personal that aren't personal. Perhaps it's the constant negativity.

You preselected a seat, you should know that QF can move you from the seat for operational reasons.

It seems that you have a vendetta against the women for this fact. It sounds as if you are on a witch hunt based on speculation on which you will never be able to prove conclusively.

Provide the feedback to QF, but don't be surprised if the feedback doesn't give you more than what you already know. You know you were displaced for a wheelchair requesting pax, what more do you need to know or what more info can QF actually provide?

I am not saying that the loophole doesn't exist, but to convict someone based on speculation is wrong.

 

[MrJetset]

I am demanding an explanation as it is my right after giving up my rightful seat. I was given an explanation that someone requiring wheelchair assistance needed my seat. I accepted it until I witnessed what had happened on board.

As someone who works for a human rights NGO, I can say, unequivocally, their is no 'right to a rightful seat' under any UN Convention, or the international bill of rights.

Has anyone actually used 'Mobility Assistance' (this is what it is called)? Frankly, when requesting it for my mother it was the most undignified experience we have ever experienced in an airport.

Flying F on BA we requested mobility assistance. Specifically said that she does not need a wheelchair, but a golf cart due to an operation on her ankle, and that she has trouble walking long distances. She is used to having a QF host, who are delightful, handle her carryon for her and take her to the front of the queues and straight to the F Lounge. Often they will have a golf cart meet her airside and take her to the lounge, and then pick her up in the cart and to the plane.

After checking in she was told to wait on the seats adjacent to the check in area. 30 mins passed before a lady arrived with a tiny wheelchair, the ones they take on board. I requested that she be taken airside, and then a golf cart and was told that she either gets the wheelchair or not. She obliged, and when I asked where her carry on went, the agent said that she would have to carry it across her knees. I found this appalling. A woman in her 70s with walking difficulty being made to balance her carry on across her knees? How is this mobility assistance?

I actually felt very upset for my mother, she was on the verge of crying, but decided it was better to make use of it than not.

In future, I will book her on QF, knowing that the first hosts will gladly arrange the type of assistance required, rather than a one size fits all solution.

 

[burrco]

Ultimately such "scammers" are going to result in some onerous restrictions being implemented which will effect those with genuine need.

If this lady was a "scammer" I have no sympathy for her, but am somewhat surprised that a gate agent was willing to sharing such information with another, potentially disgruntled, passenger I wouldn't like Qantas staff sharing details of my flights, requests etc with a random passenger.

 

[ALH]

It's a tough one. I would have suggested providing a mobility card (for disabled parking) as proof of needing wheelchair assistance, but these can so easily be borrowed from the true owner. My extremely fit and agile ex BIL used to borrow my MIL's card so he could park next to the entrance at his Amway conventions.

There will always be someone rorting the system to gain advantage. Sadly it's human nature and they do not appear to feel any remorse at taking advantage of people in genuine need. I hope that by stretching my legs and walking around as much as possible before flights rather than sitting in the airport lounges, I will have mobility a lot longer than some of these lazy sods.

I lost my prime seat at the last minute on so many DJ flights that I won't fly with them anymore...it is really annoying.

Ironically, IF I fly Y I always manage to score exit row with shadow, on Qantas.

 

[mannej]

I thought you would.

Flame me and don't worry about people scamming for their own good without any regard for others.

What does that have to do with anything? I would hope that gets redacted for being off-topic.

John, you have based your views on speculation. I have commented on that, to which I still think the comments towards the lady are harsh. It has nothing to do with scamming for their own good, as this can not be proven. For that reason, I find it quite harsh that has been taken towards the lady. I have not flamed you, but have provided a view point to the comments you have provided. Is that not the whole rationale behind this forum?

 

[drron]

But of course if someone has mobility problems they have a right to a designated "accessible"seat.This woman was not in such a seat.23B is the front of an economy cabin and therefore specifically excluded on the QF website from being an accessible seat.She had no more "rights"to it than John under any UN convention.Yes I would probably suck it up but John has every right to feel the way he does.We are all unique in our own way.

It is obvious that many here have not met John.I have only once and played a round of golf with him and another 2 AFFers.I hope he wont be offended but John is hard on himself.My impression was he is a glass half empty fellow whilst I am now a glass half full fellow.In the past however I was definitely a half empty fellow so can understand to a small degree how he reacts.Too many of us(but not as many as other travel sites) judge people by our own values rather than realise not every one thinks the same or has had the same experiences.I know only too well that I am guilty of this many times.

Now back on topic.With us baby boomers adding to the ageing population this problem is only going to get worse for the airlines.It is time they started thinking of what they might do about it.