Wheelchair Assistance when you don't need Wheelchair!

[serfty]

...
I'm waiting for you to show me where the wheelchair access seats are clearly shown on the 737 seat map. I've shown you that they are not displayed in the way that you say they are (ie at all), so not only are you a liar but you are also very wrong. ...

...
You said that they are clearly marked.
The truth is that they are not.

...
If you want to post a link or screenshot showing where they are, please do because you have not done anything of the sort so far.

You should post the QF policy document for assistance passengers that shows where such pax "don't have to wait" upon disembarking. I won't be holding my breath for you to put up something useful.

Merry Christmas

You you can quite easily see the seats designated by Qantas as "wheelchair" accessible on ExpertFlyer but cannot on Qantas.com.

 

[Happy Trails]

You you can quite easily see the seats designated by Qantas as "wheelchair" accessible on ExpertFlyer but cannot on Qantas.com.

Notwithstanding what's shown on EF, are they not those shown as having "lift-up armrests" on the QF seat map?

 

[serfty]

Notwithstanding what's shown on EF, are they not those shown as having "lift-up armrests" on the QF seat map?

Not necessarily, but in Economy it can be a good indication.

D seats are generally so designated as 'accessible', both on 737 and widebody (IIRC due to some design standard in relation to which side of a wheelchair the customer would employ when transferring to/from the airline seat.):

 

[ALH]

I flew QF from Manila to Sydney a few days ago, there was on lady waiting at the gate for a wheelchair. She was standing there and on her own two feet and would have had to walk down the steps to the gate, yet she jumped into a wheelchair and was boarded before everyone else, at Sydney I saw her again standing in the line at immigration.

I'm wondering if the airlines are concerned about their liability? If somebody unsteady on their legs took a fall whilst boarding, they could get sued. Maybe it's safer to board them in a wheelchair to avoid this issue? Just a thought

 

[medhead]

Too bad your analogy is beside the point. You didn't get bumped to a "lesser" seat - the OP did.

And so you're still missing the point. I suggest you should quit while you're ahead. Especially since you can't stop insulting me.

I think you'll also find my analogy is exactly the point. You asked me how I would react. My daughter when she was 6 got it, when she told her aunt - "don't you worry about me, just you worry about yourself."

The "compensation" upgrade (which happened after the incident) received by the OP is not what I'm referring to.

Neither was I, you clearly failed to read my post and comprehend the content.

You fail to comprehend the difference between "I understand..", "I believe.." and "I claim.."
Claim | Define Claim at Dictionary.com

So you admit that you belief is wrong. So there is no policy as per your beliefs and so any conclusions you've made are completely baseless. This is the point at which you need to admit youre wrong and apologise for insulting me.

BTW I fully understand the difference. It's a shame that you fail to understand the implications of your words.

You've also (conveniently) ignored the fact that 23B is not an accessible seat, as shown on the QF 767 seatmap.
What's the difference between row 23 and 24? How about 23 and 25?
Are you saying that someone who can walk to row 23 without assistance cannot walk to row 24 without assistance?

And so we see the failure of your constant attacks of me over accessible seats.

Yes, I have. I posted every link that QF has on their website (all two of them) of the 737-800 seatmaps that DO NOT point out where the wheelchair access seats are.
Seat Maps for the Boeing 737-800 | Qantas
Even the 737-400 seatmap (one only) does not show it.
Seat Maps for the Boeing 737-400 | Qantas

Even a 3rd party website does not show them:
SeatGuru Seat Map Qantas Boeing 737-800 (73H)

You said that they are clearly marked.
The truth is that they are not.

Quote the post in which you did this. They are clearly marked on the seat maps I see.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I flew QF from Manila to Sydney a few days ago, there was on lady waiting at the gate for a wheelchair. She was standing there and on her own two feet and would have had to walk down the steps to the gate, yet she jumped into a wheelchair and was boarded before everyone else, at Sydney I saw her again standing in the line at immigration.

A miracle !!

 

[serfty]

A miracle !!

Well known in the industry I believe ...

I hadn't heard of this practice but it seems to be well established in the US:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/04/n...rs-to-avoid-airport-lines.html?pagewanted=all

“We’d say there was a miracle because they all needed a wheelchair getting on, but not getting off,” said Kelly Skyles, a flight attendant and the national safety and security coordinator for the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, which represents American Airlines attendants. “Not only do we serve them beverages and ensure their safety — now we’re healing the sick.”

 

[Sprucegoose]

Well known in the industry I believe ...

Yes wait until the church hears about this!

 

[JohnK]

Do you know what level of wheelchair assistance was required? On aircraft or just in terminal? It is interesting that you keep holding up wheelchair assistance as a phrase. Why to incorrectly imply that the person must be in a wheelchair at all times?

Wheelchair assistance is wheelchair assistance. I used it after getting out of hospital after chicken pox. I could not walk but managed to go all the way back to row 25 on a 737. You use it getting on flight and you use getting off flight. You wait for everyone to get off and then wheelchair comes to aerobridge and off you go.

Except this time there was no need for it. And this was known at boarding in SYD as there was no request for wheelchair assistance in MEL. I suspect the request was cancelled once this mighty fine lady was sitting smug in 23B and skipped a whole lot of queues going international to domestic in SYD and probably got a good seat for the LAX-SYD flight as well.

I cannot understand why people want to give this "person" the benefit of the doubt. There is no doubt. She scammed. It is that simple. No speculation. Just facts as presented. No need for me to lie to get a point across.

And with that it is time for me to leave this thread for those that want to justify her actions....

 

[serfty]

I still don't understand how a "wheelchair" PAX was able to score 23B on an 767 ...

 

[mannej]

The circles must be getting worn out.

I fail to see how having a different opinion to yours equated to justifying her actions?

I am sorry but the majority of this thread has been to speculate on her actions. For this fact I don't think the you can conclude that the lady is a scammer or a low life.

 

[Kangol]

Quote the post in which you did this.

Page 5. You already quoted it earlier but went to the trouble to remove it from your reply. Here it is since you are having trouble finding it.

...
Yes, the 737 wheelchair access seat location is clearly marked on the seat map:
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738-12J156Y.pdf
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738J-12J156Y.pdf

My use of the word clearly (in bold) is what some might refer to as sarcasm; the actual truth is the exact opposite of the statement.
The truth is that they are not marked at all on the qantas.com seatmaps available to the general public.

serfty indicated and posted evidence that some EF maps (not accessible to the general public) show them as marked. This is helpful, more helpful than what you have ever contributed here, but beside the point in the previous discussion.

They are clearly marked on the seat maps I see.

Oh, now you retreat and use the term "I see" .. too bad that without posting proof, your statement is meaningless. Doesn't change your previous statement.



If you want to retract your previous statement, go ahead:

As for the seat location on a 737. The D seats are wheelchair access seats in rows 5 to about 8 or 10. This is clearly marked on the seat map.

Here is proof showing that your statement is false.
One example (below) disputing your statement is enough to prove you are wrong.

...
Yes, the 737 wheelchair access seat location is clearly marked on the seat map:
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738-12J156Y.pdf
http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/flying/inTheAir/ourAircraft/738J-12J156Y.pdf

You did not tell the truth and me calling you out on it is not an insult.
Someone who does not tell the truth is a liar. (some might say politician instead but that's another story)
Just like someone who writes poetry is a poet.

If you did not intend to make a false statement, then the community would probably accept your apology - but it doesn't change the fact that you made a false statement.
If you intended to say something like "This is clearly marked on one particular seat map that I cannot provide evidence of nor reference its origin, but believe me - it exists!" then you should have said so.
Intention and execution are two different things. Just like how Anna Kournikova intended to win a tennis title in her career but in the end did not win one at all.

Maybe the message behind this Einstein quote can help you, since it is clear you need it the most.

No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

(reading between the lines recommended)

Anyway, this is over.

JohnK, I hope justice is served and I hope you will be able to share with us how QF responds to this incident.

 

[ecg]

I suggest you take this to A Current Affair or Today Tonight. They would run a feature exposing the widespread scam and you would get to vent to a national audience. Of course these shows are well known for their quality journalism and I have no doubt this story would be right up their alley. Anyone got any ideas for the headline??

 

[JW1003]

Merry Christmas to you all and all of your families. The time for giving, forgiving and coming together. People requiring assistance for mobility issues should wait til everyone else gets off the plane, as even thought they may be able to move the length of the plane, they generally in my experience do it at such a pace that it holds up the entire disembarking process, as no other pax can get around them on the plane, or in the aerobridge as they walk in the middle, or side by side with a partner. My father walks very slowly, so in the aerobridges I walk behind him to allow others to pass, this is something I find rarely performed by other pax.

 

[markis10]

Merry Christmas to you all and all of your families. The time for giving, forgiving and coming together. People requiring assistance for mobility issues should wait til everyone else gets off the plane, as even thought they may be able to move the length of the plane, they generally in my experience do it at such a pace that it holds up the entire disembarking process, as no other pax can get around them on the plane, or in the aerobridge as they walk in the middle, or side by side with a partner. My father walks very slowly, so in the aerobridges I walk behind him to allow others to pass, this is something I find rarely performed by other pax.

Merry Christmas to you and welcome to AFF, it's a time for compassion for others, family and respect, as well as thoughts for others not so well off.

With my mod hat off I have to say I am disappointed with many posts here, they seem out of place with what matters in the real world, especially at this time of the year, surely now is a time to agree to disagree with respect, celebrate a year of learning and growing while spending time with those that matter most?

I know my New Years resolution will be to do a good deed every day, maybe that will mean giving up my favourite seat, maybe that will mean minding my business and respecting the fact that circumstances are not what they seem, all I know is that life is not always about getting off the bus first, it's about the journey and the friends you make in your travels.

 

[Happy Trails]

Speaking of miracles, I had 23A today on a lightly loaded 763 and found that my long standing platinum shadow in 23B had transubstantiated into flesh and blood. And yes, it was a gent using a wheelchair.
Please note that I'm not whinging or making any judgements other than that said gent turned out to be a very pleasant and considerate seat mate.
It does seem to suggest that 23B may be a favoured seat for wheelchair pax though, so I'll probably go for J/K in future.

 

[Mal Ware]

I'm wondering if the airlines are concerned about their liability? If somebody unsteady on their legs took a fall whilst boarding, they could get sued. Maybe it's safer to board them in a wheelchair to avoid this issue? Just a thought

Yes I agree that would probably be the case. If the person declares themselves to be special needs or disabled and then the Airline fails to cater for it, they would leave themselves open.

A miracle !!

Hallelujah:mrgreen:

 

[straitman]

If you want to post a link or screenshot showing where they are, please do because you have not done anything of the sort so far.

Expert Flyer certainly shows the accessible seats.

 

[harvyk]

I'm not going to defend those ppl who have absolutely nothing wrong with them who use the assistance services when they don't need it, those people are pretty low in the scum of the earth ratings as far as I'm concerned, that said, don't assume someones mobility status can't change within the space of an hour or two.

I get gout in my feet, an attack can spring up from no where which pretty much limits the distance I can walk, and even that is in massive pain. Furthermore such an attack can end pretty quickly as well, which means I can walk just as well as anyone else.

Luckily it's pretty rare I have attacks these days, but there have been a couple of times where it's sprung up from no where, I've taken some medication, and I hobbled ont the plane in a massive amount of pain, and by the time we landed the meds had kicked in and I could walk as well as anyone else. I've also had it work the other way as well, where an attack happened during a fight which meant getting off the plane was interesting.

No I didn't use the mobility services offered in each case, but that's more because I dislike a fuss being made over me (medical wise), that said no doubt there will be some stage in the future when I decide I no longer have a level of pride and decide to use said services.

So before you judge someones need to use said service, make sure you know their full medical history...

 

[haggiscat]

I've travelled many times with a disabled passenger friend. When I had Bronze status, we were regularly assigned to about Row 7, which was irritating because it's too far from either toilet. Being a thoughtful Bronze, I used to request Row 29 so we could be out of the way and close to the rear lavatory, but routinely found this changed to 7/8 'so the crew can help you'. This was really, really, really annoying.

I have never found anyone proactively helpful in moving us to a full row 4 or 23 (although I have never asked, either). So how some old bag without a wheelchair can get away with it is anyone's guess.

Once, in a 737-400, I asked if we could please use the forward lavatory. I was politely told 'business only' (who the hell has ever enforced that rule when I have been in Business!?) and when I insisted, and worked up a sweat dragging the wheelie guy to the front toilet, the CSM reconsidered and directed us to 2 D and F and brought us a beer.

On QF5 about 12 months ago, one lot of crew was fantastic when we needed lavatory access and would come racing up to pull curtains shut etc. The particular jumbo had a little sliding door you could lock outside the toilets to give privacy. The crew on the next leg were the most unhelpful male coughes I've ever encountered and viewed every trip to the bulkhead as a grotesque inconvenience. Jumbo crews.... eugghh.

Like everything else, depends on the day and the staff I guess. If some PITA is in Row 4 or 23 you probably don't want them sitting next to you anyway.