Which FF programme for 25yo Sydneysider?

[modandm]

Im 25 and will be travelling to europe return this year + a few domestic and maybe a trip over the ditch. I think I will do a trip like europe south america or usa about every year or so for the foreseeable future. All flights will be self funded so economy.

I would love some advice on what FF programme to join and how to maximise the benifits.

Re credit cards I am not a big spender (probabally $100pw on credit card) so don't imagine I would earn much with one but would get one and use it if it helped towards the programme. Particulalry the ones with a joining bonus may help with getting points/status. I also don't shop at woolies.

Should I be pursuing status first - to earn at a higher rate? Or is earn and burn more important? What is earn and burn?
What should be my objectives?
What other questions should I be asking?

And finally what programme should I join?

 

[JohnK]

Welcome to AFF!

Very difficult questions.

The most important question is which airline (or alliance) do you want to fly?

If the answer is Qantas and Oneworld carriers and you want status quickly then probably best to join AA and sign up for the AA Platinum Challenge (I think it costs US150 maybe more). AA also has good earn and burn rates early on but you need to be veyr careful of the fares you book for domestic travel. It does not sound like you will have enough to get status on Qantas with the amount of flying you will be doing.

If the answer is Singapore or Thai then probably best to join something like Aegean Airlines to get status quickly but the burn rates are not that good. If interested in credit card points as well then perhaps Singapore Kris Flyer is a consideration but points do expire after 3 years so need to be used regularly.

I am not going to go into the intricacies of FF programs as that information is on their respective websites and AFF threads so start researching what is best for you.

As for credit cards which flavour do you want? You will not be able to transfer credit card points to Aegean or AA (unless you have Diners). For that type of spend maybe the Qantas Amex Discovery card with no annual fee would be the best option.

P.S earn and burn refers to the rate at which points are earned and spent on awards. Some programs have generous rates on earning but then very high rates when it come to awards while other may have poor rates omn earning but generous rates when it comes to awards. You need to determine what you want to do with your points and then find the best program for you. But that will take time.

 

[modandm]

Hi John - thanks thats helpful.

I think I would prefer to go star alliance carriers than Oneworld so maybe Aegan is suitable for me.

I have read the benifits of being *gold and lounge access would be nice but id rather try and earn points for upgrades as I was told by a travel agent that this is the best 'value' (point for dollar) from points. Does this mean I should worry less about status and focus on 'earn and burn'?

Also as I won't be flying that much do i need the ability to buy points?

 

[JohnK]

Again it is hard to answer as what is best for me is not necessarily best for you.

I don't care about upgrades and the most important thing for me is domestic flying with some international (mainly QF) and this way I can get status and earn QFF points to redeem Oneworld awards in economy for 140,000 QFF points.

I also have an Amex credit card and I can switch those points SQ KrisFlyer or VS Flying Club to get cheap awards to SE Asia.

I don't quite understand how *Alliance works when it comes to upgrades. I believe you can upgrade any carriers flights with miles/points from any FF program. If you are also going to earn points from credit card then it makes sense to go for a FF program with good burn rates.

And yes if you are not going to be flying much then you also need to consider how quickly you will earn points and use them. You don't want to be in a FF program where your miles become orphaned if not used in 3 years.

So yes I would focus on earn and burn and try to find a balance between the two.

Sorry I can't be more specific but hopefully someone will answer on the benefits of choosing a *Alliance FF program.

 

[modandm]

thanks john - I understand it might be a tough q for you if you are a oneworld man yourself.

Since jetstar is now oneworld maybe i should consider oneworld. Is qantas the usual one people used so they can get wow and credit card points too?

Do you think Jetstar wil have its own points systme or will it join QFF?

 

[JohnK]

Since jetstar is now oneworld maybe i should consider oneworld. Is qantas the usual one people used so they can get wow and credit card points too?

With your amount of flying (I think I got the picture) then probably best to join AA as they have a generous earn and burn rate for most airfares but more importantly allows you to get status quickly with Platinum Challenge which then multiplies the earn rate by 50% for Gold and 100% for Platinum. Hope I got that right.

I suspect though that most Jetstar airfares will still not be earning FF points in most FF programs.

Keep credit card points in Amex or Citibank (or what ever you choose) and then use these for awards on a number of airlines or put them across to QF and use them for upgrades on QF metal.

Do you think Jetstar wil have its own points systme or will it join QFF?

It is already part of QFF but personally I would prefer it if Jetstar wasn't anywhere near QFF as I would have more to lose than gain. And yes I know that some people think Jetstar deserves to be highly rated and treated seriously.

 

[oz_mark]

thanks john - I understand it might be a tough q for you if you are a oneworld man yourself.

Since jetstar is now oneworld maybe i should consider oneworld. Is qantas the usual one people used so they can get wow and credit card points too?

Do you think Jetstar wil have its own points systme or will it join QFF?

Jetstar is not part of oneWorld. There are some interline and marketing agreements, and if these are useful to you, then well and good. But at the moment, standalone flights, booked under JQ can only credit to QFF (and then only some fares). We still have to wait to see how the mechanics of the new agreements will work.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Should I be pursuing status first - to earn at a higher rate? Or is earn and burn more important? What is earn and burn?
What should be my objectives?

Ok...if I have read between the lines correctly you will not actually be flying that often, and when you will be it will be on a cheap fare. ie discount economy.

If so, then worrying about status is not for you as status is mainly of benefit when you fly a lot..plus in Y you have to fly a lot to get status in the first place.

Furthermore your spend is also not that high. So your total "earn" capacity is not going to be high.

If so then I would suggest:

• 1/ Focusing on buying as cheap a flight as possible given where you want to go, and not worrying too greatly about what FF points it earns. This will most likely give you immediate benefit upfront...and in many cases is actually a better deal than a more expensive flight with points anyway.
• 2/ However collecting points in a program that does not expire quickly when you can...but keep in mind 1/.
• 3/ Even though *A redemptions (burn) are better than QFF, your ability to earn *A points will be limited. So QFF will probably be best. AA while having good burn rate will be difficult for you to acquire many points too compared, whereas QFF will have deals like the Everyday Card that you can latch on to, including the current 16K sign-on bonus if you are quick.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I have read the benifits of being *gold and lounge access would be nice but id rather try and earn points for upgrades



Also as I won't be flying that much do i need the ability to buy points?

As per my last post...if you do not actually fly much then status will be hard or impossible to gain.


Also note that without status that in many programs that upgrades can be hard to come by as higher status FF members get preference.

So if you area low status flyer..as is likely...then you are best off redeeming in the class you want in the first place.

 

[modandm]

Ok...if I have read between the lines correctly you will not actually be flying that often, and when you will be it will be on a cheap fare. ie discount economy.

I think you guys have got me here. Im a bit of a tightwad and save my cough off so yeah you will see me walking past you to the back...:mrgreen:

3/ Even though *A redemptions (burn) are better than QFF, your ability to earn *A points will be limited. So QFF will probably be best. AA while having good burn rate will be difficult for you to acquire many points too compared, whereas QFF will have deals like the Everyday Card that you can latch on to, including the current 16K sign-on bonus if you are quick.

If *A burn is best i might go down that route because I like to fly NZ and there are more options for cheap *A flights to europe than there are OW. Eg. china airlines and thai airways). Are there any good credit cards that work with good *A programmes or would I have to go with krisflyer which may not be good as hard expiry and maybe burn not that good. TBH I don't think i will earn much through the credit card anyway besides the join up bonuses.

Sorry guys I guess you must think this is pretty noob... It seems like it is quite hard to work out what programme to go with as an low status flyer

oh and lastly if im not going to earn that many points - don't i want to be in a programme where I can buy points at reasonable rates (specials etc) so that I can buy tickets through point redemptions?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

oh and lastly if im not going to earn that many points - don't i want to be in a programme where I can buy points at reasonable rates (specials etc) so that I can buy tickets through point redemptions?

That wipes out the Oz programs as that does not happen.

Occasionally it can happen with USA based programs..but if t does you can join up when it does and redeem as a once off.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

If *A burn is best i might go down that route because I like to fly NZ and there are more options for cheap *A flights to europe than there are OW. Eg. china airlines and thai airways).

This may work for you are *A to NZ is only say 25K..so long-haul flying should earn you enough points before they expire.

You may even earn enough to get to SE Asia return..or beyond.
SQ is a 3 year expiry on points once they are awarded.
However not that not all cheap paid flights eran points..or if they do may be at a discounted rate.

Are there any good credit cards that work with good *A programmes or would I have to go with krisflyer which may not be good as hard expiry and maybe burn not that good. TBH I don't think i will earn much through the credit card anyway besides the join up bonuses.

The problem here is that with $5000 yearly spend (maybe more if you are buying airafares) that it wil be hard to gain value if you pay a card fee, and particularly to a *A airline like SQ.

Probably best to geta free or cheap QFF dumping card..but put your flying points to a *A airline.
With QFF you can collect points from various sources..and as any activity extends the points for 18 months (and that is ALL points) effectively they will not expire.

this should get youa *A to NZ each year...and after many years a QFF flight.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

... It seems like it is quite hard to work out what programme to go with as an low status flyer

Well I am a low status flyer as I rarely actually buy flights, though I redeem a lot for J awards...and when flying in J one does not need status

For any of us the "art" is to work out what is optimum for ourselves..as our circumstances are all different in some ways...as is our aspirations.

As your income rises, opportunities will increase.

However for those that look...other opportunities also arise from time to time.

 

[modandm]

Alright sounds good. Thanks very much for your help! (everyone)

 

[extracta]

I would love some advice on what FF programme to join and how to maximise the benifits.

The good thing about frequent flyer schemes is that you can join as many as you want and it does not cost much if anything to join.

I fly mainly internationally and rather than align myself with any one airline I look around for the best deal at the time. Not necessarily the cheapest, sometimes I am able to get Business class seats for the same price that other airlines charge for economy. I do join the airlines FF program before I book and generally book on line.

I think your best bet is to get a credit card that accrues points to one of the Australian airlines, ie QFF or Velocity. Then just allow those points to accrue until one day you can use them. I have more QFF points than any other and do not fly QANTAS.

One day I will use my points to get a nice F or J flight somewhere.

Until then I will continue to look for the best deal.

 

[nate89]

I am 21 and have gone with Qantas. I used to fly with Thai Airways, but ever since I had a near expiration of ~60000 points (ended up flying business to Auckland to waste the points) I switched to Qantas.

I am using the ANZ AmEx/Visa credit card combo. Annual fee is cheap ($65 iirc) and for 6 months I received double points on my AmEx (2 points/$). That has expired now, but there is a promo running where you get an extra 20,000 points for signing up. Those types of promo's sound more down your alley if your weekly spend isn't that large.

However, to give an example.

Let's say you pay for your airline ticket to Europe (E.g. Rome) on your ANZ credit card, then you get an extra 1500 points. If you fly with oneworld - e.g. Cathay, then an extra 18000 points for miles (plus status credits if you want to aim long term for lifetime silver, etc.).

You now have enough points for a return ticket to Auckland and back.

Improved ANZ Frequent Flyer - Apply Now and Start Earning Qantas Frequent Flyer Points

If you are looking long term, then perhaps this isn't ideal for you. However, if you are after fairly quick returns, look for promo's like that. After a year or two, change credit card to a new promo.

Personally, I am becoming more and more dedicated to earning points. Whenever there are group events, I offer to pay for everything and then they just give me cash to repay me (tickets to music festivals/gigs, accomodation, flights even restaurants). I guess it will depend on how far you are willing to put in effort into gaining points.

It has worked out pretty well for me so far. I will probably look at switching credit card in a few months though... some deals are too hard to pass by

 

[JohnK]

However, to give an example.

Let's say you pay for your airline ticket to Europe (E.g. Rome) on your ANZ credit card, then you get an extra 1500 points. If you fly with oneworld - e.g. Cathay, then an extra 18000 points for miles (plus status credits if you want to aim long term for lifetime silver, etc.).

Some good ideas there but CX was not a good example as you only earn 0.5 QFF points/mile on most discount economy airfares and there are some CX airfares that do not earn any QFF points.

 

[nate89]

Some good ideas there but CX was not a good example as you only earn 0.5 QFF points/mile on most discount economy airfares and there are some CX airfares that do not earn any QFF points.

Haha, I am not well versed in airlines as you can tell.

Perhaps Qantas to Heathrow via BKK then, although I am guessing that would cost slightly more

 

[modandm]

are their any penalties associated with cancelling credit cards after using them for a year? Taking advantage of promos would seem a good way to earn points. I signed up for the woolworths one and getting 16k points. Could I join ANZ one aswell?

 

[nate89]

I have not read the T&C's yet (big fault). I will go ahead and read the T&C's tomorrow for you though - I'm interested to know too.

Having said that, it isn't like the annual fee is a back breaker.

One thing to note though - I don't remember where I read it from, but I think if you have too many credit cards it can hinder your credit rating. If you're going for a mortgage or loan soon it may be worthwhile keeping in mind as you may want to cancel other credit card(s) or put off applying for another one if that is the case.