Why a $75 QANTAS fare is better value than a $55 DJ Fare

[yohy?!]

The skill of marketing is in how well you organise the smoke and mirrors

Indeed! My other half is completing a masters in marketing....his class is besotted with JQ's campaigns:!:

 

[JohnK]

At the end of the day, I just look at the fare offerings when I want to fly, and make a decision on that, taking into accout whichever QF product variant I would get.

For what it is worth I agree with what you have to say.

All I was trying to do with the post (it has turned into a thread now :shock was try to highlight there is a lot more than just a straight comparison when researching cheap airfares. You can't just say DJ is $55 and QF is $75. What about availability, schedule, product (I am not sure there is anyone that likes the DJ seats in economy ), offerings, overall fringe benefits including FF program etc.

How is the availability for redeeming Oneworld Awards?

Not too bad. I have done 2 of them now (one with 2 people) travelling at shoulder season and oly booked ~4 months in advance. You do strike hurdles along the way but should not be too difficult to improvise the routing to take into consideration availability.

From the posts on this thread so far this would seem to be the only point DJ doesn't directly counter.

Not the only point. Frequent flyer program, status, lounges (including First Class lounge) and partner lounges, alliance et.

It is interesting, given the QFF program is not generous in the overall scheme of things, to see it being compared favourably to Velocity.

Who said the QF program is not generous? Someone whose company purchases super savers and higher? QFF is a generous FF program when earning points (yes there are some out there better) and overall I cannot see how anyone in their right minds can compare Velocity to QFF. Chalk and cheese....

 

[Nigelinoz]

You can't just say DJ is $55 and QF is $75. What about availability, schedule, product (I am not sure there is anyone that likes the DJ seats in economy ), offerings, overall fringe benefits including FF program etc.

Generally I would agree with your points John but if all someone is looking for is point to point transport from A to B,the DJ timetable is convenient,you aren't bothered about FF points or status etc then you can compare a $55 fare against a $75 one.
As a self funded traveller I have many times booked a seat on an airline which offered me a cheap fare,even if the difference was only $10.I try to be loyal to QF because I'm a FF member but sometimes the hip pocket nerve wins out over brand loyalty.
And BTW I have no problems with the Y seats on DJ-I prefer them to those of JQ and TT.

Cheers
N'oz

 

[medhead]

My point is that is takes a lot longer to acumulate points on Velocity than it does on QFF.

But that is just not correct. Accumulation of points on velocity is directly related to the cash that you are prepared to spend. It takes as long as you are prepared to spend cash. So for my regular ADL-SYD-ADL I could get 70000 points after 17 to 20 flights if I pay for PE. Buying J on QF is still going to take me 40 to 50 flights to earn that many points. Or the same in economy. The difference is that it will cost you a fixed $10000 (as a DJ gold) to get the points whereas it may take more flights with QF, it could cost about 30% less.

All I was trying to do with the post (it has turned into a thread now :shock was try to highlight there is a lot more than just a straight comparison when researching cheap airfares. You can't just say DJ is $55 and QF is $75. What about availability, schedule, product (I am not sure there is anyone that likes the DJ seats in economy ), offerings, overall fringe benefits including FF program etc.

But this gets to the question of variability versus someones personal position. If DJ has a convenient flight then the fact that QF might have a "bigger" schedule doesn't really come into it. One thing that I'm loving about DJ right now is that they actually call for people with Gold to board first. Unlike on Qantas where I have had a silver FF push in front of me. (yes I gave him a smug look from row 4 when he was in row 18). That's alone is worth about $5 to me, in not stressing about getting to the gate early to get overhead space.

Oh and the DJ seats suit me fine.

 

[ric_melb]

This is actually an interesting thread, as it throws up various people's experiences.
From my point of view if the difference in a one way fare is around $40 in Virgin's favour, I will continue to travel Qantas. Partly this is due to me being a Qantas Club member, and not a Virgin lounge member. Also this year I am chasing status on Qantas!

For my travelling patterns Qantas are ahead for the following reasons.

Minimum 1000 points per flight.
Access to Qantas Club.
Luggage included.
Prefer 767 to 737.
Prefer Qantas economy seat.

 

[dk4]

To add to the complexity of the equations in this thread, in this scenario I would likely pay $39/$49 to fly Jetstar.

 

[dk4]

To add to the complexity of the equations in this thread, in this scenario I would likely pay $39/$49 to fly Jetstar.

On second thought, I might have to alter that equation. :idea:

If am going to aim for a Gold + Gold lounge access strategy, I will probably have to start flying less with JQ in these scenarios and more with DJ. Whereas in the past, my DJ flying was simply "keeping up appearances" and I was equally happy to fly JQ on short hops, I think that this is going to have to change without the peace of mind of AnytimeAccess in a few days.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Re: QANTAS's domestic sale(s)

I would pay an extra $20 to be able to change flights when I arrive at the airport, instead I am saving $20 and getting home earlier, where there is plenty of good food and drink for free .

Plus you get anytime lounge access at home & don't need to be travelling on QF that day!

 

[JohnK]

....when QF are charging 36000 one way BNE- HKT while DJ is 30000 direct or via MEL (or PER which will still be available post FEB).

How is BNE-HKT 36,000 one-way when SYD-HKT is only 30,000 one-way? Is one a partner award while the other is a JQ flight?

How much does Velocity charge for Partner awards?

But that is just not correct. Accumulation of points on velocity is directly related to the cash that you are prepared to spend. It takes as long as you are prepared to spend cash. So for my regular ADL-SYD-ADL I could get 70000 points after 17 to 20 flights if I pay for PE. Buying J on QF is still going to take me 40 to 50 flights to earn that many points. Or the same in economy. The difference is that it will cost you a fixed $10000 (as a DJ gold) to get the points whereas it may take more flights with QF, it could cost about 30% less.

I think we have determined earlier in the thread that the more one pays for airfares then Velocity may be more suitable.

But the whole point of this thread was cheap flights so let's just stick to the point at hand.

At $55 a flight it will take a person ~181 flights to attain DJ Gold status.

At $75 a flight it will take a person 70 flights to attain QF Gold status and 60 flights to retain it and 140 flights to attain QF Platinum status and 120 flights to retain it.

Which is better and quicker and cheaper?

Also take note that a very limited number of DJ flights are that cheap and most times the difference is not much between QF airfares and DJ airfares is negligible. In my search for May and June airfares QF is $75 and DJ is $79.

But this gets to the question of variability versus someones personal position. If DJ has a convenient flight then the fact that QF might have a "bigger" schedule doesn't really come into it.

Really? Schedule is important. Well it is to me anyway especially on the routes where the number of flights per day reduces.

One thing that I'm loving about DJ right now is that they actually call for people with Gold to board first. Unlike on Qantas where I have had a silver FF push in front of me.

You like priority boarding boarding and I couldn't care less priority boarding but I want to be able to check-in 23kgs. On QF a nil status gets luggage allowance included in the airfare whilst on DJ one needs to pay $10 for it. And if we go to status then on QF as a Platinum I get 35kgs which is very important to me and I use it quite often.

I know everyone is excited about getting DJ Gold status for now but please don't compare DJ Gold to QF Platinum as DJ Gold does not even come close. In fact I would say that QF Gold is more valuable than DJ Gold especially when you start to include some international travel on partner airlines..

But now we are getting off-topic and into opinions rather than facts. And the fact is that on cheap airfares status is easier, quicker and cheaper on QFF. It can't be any simpler....

 

[oz_mark]

Who said the QF program is not generous? Someone whose company purchases super savers and higher? QFF is a generous FF program when earning points (yes there are some out there better) and overall I cannot see how anyone in their right minds can compare Velocity to QFF. Chalk and cheese....

One thing I learned coming from Perth, is that the QFF program has a bias towards earning on the short east coast flights, primarily through the 1000 point minimum, but also through SC accrual (e.g. 10 SC SYD-BNE versus 20 SC PER-BNE, which helps push ones status up). So, if you mainly do short east coast hops, then yes, earn can be quite good.

The other bias the program has, is that the best redemptions are on the long haul flights.

Overall, if you earn on short hops and burn on long hops, you may well see it as a generous program. The smarts of the program, is that it is a profile that probably matches many of their frequent flyers.

In comparison, DJ don't use a zone system for SC earning (or for point burning), so the program biases of QFF are not present in their system.

 

[markis10]

How is BNE-HKT 36,000 one-way when SYD-HKT is only 30,000 one-way? Is one a partner award while the other is a JQ flight?

How much does Velocity charge for Partner awards?.

Its not a partner award if you take the time to look on the QF website (I am sure you have access if not the motivation ), its just a connecting QF domestic flight to the SYD JQ flight, the figures quoted are of course without fuel fines and taxes etc or ++ . When you have a going backwards classic award it charges for the connection, whereas a ASA uses the longest point to point distance, so it says the minimum points are 30K.

 

[JohnK]

In comparison, DJ don't use a zone system for SC earning (or for point burning), so the program biases of QFF are not present in their system.

I don't know but perhaps I am doing something wrong but I cannot get too excited about Velocity.

From memory looking at awards a while back and noticed SYD-OOL for 4,500 points + 26 when the outright airfare for the flight was ~$49. That is valuing Velocity points at ~1/2 cent per point.

I was also looking at going to HKT and direct flights from BNE and MEL are ceasing at the end of the month but there is a flight from PER on a 737. :shock: Anyway I could not go BNE-PER-HKT on the one award redemption as I am guessing it is 2 different airlines and the points cost was for BNE-PER and PER-HKT which made it ridiculous. I have since lost the motivation. Perhaps it has changed now.

 

[crazydave98]

Will be interesting to have this debate again once our product changes (inflight, gound/Lounge and Velocity) are all public. Will be the test of whether or not we got it right.

 

[medhead]

I think we have determined earlier in the thread that the more one pays for airfares then Velocity may be more suitable.

But the whole point of this thread was cheap flights so let's just stick to the point at hand.

At $55 a flight it will take a person ~181 flights to attain DJ Gold status.

At $75 a flight it will take a person 70 flights to attain QF Gold status and 60 flights to retain it and 140 flights to attain QF Platinum status and 120 flights to retain it.

Which is better and quicker and cheaper?

When you put it that way it is clear. But I thought you made a general statement that it would take much longer to earn 70000 points with DJ than it takes with QF. Maybe I ignored an implied limitation to cheap airfares in that.

Also take note that a very limited number of DJ flights are that cheap and most times the difference is not much between QF airfares and DJ airfares is negligible. In my search for May and June airfares QF is $75 and DJ is $79.

Really? Schedule is important. Well it is to me anyway especially on the routes where the number of flights per day reduces.

Pricing is going to depend on route so it is fine to selectively look at the pricing on routes that suit you but that also makes it fine for me to selectively look at schedule on the routes that suit me. What I was trying to say is that if there is a flight at a suitable time on the desired route that the overall "size" of an airlines schedule becomes irrelevant.

You like priority boarding boarding and I couldn't care less priority boarding but I want to be able to check-in 23kgs.

of course if one has priority boarding with DJ one also has checked luggage.

All the rest that you mentioned is correct but it gets into area of individual needs and there is not much point to discussion of those points other than that I recognise you have different wants and needs to me.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Will be interesting to have this debate again once our product changes (inflight, gound/Lounge and Velocity) are all public. Will be the test of whether or not we got it right.

When will the changes be announced?

 

[markis10]

Will be interesting to have this debate again once our product changes (inflight, gound/Lounge and Velocity) are all public. Will be the test of whether or not we got it right.

I agree, one of the reasons I thought the subject needed its own thread was the need to get a perspective on how a frequent traveler sees value in the sticker price of an airfare on offer on a particular route across various airlines, as extras and schedules change so do the perceptions of value at times.

 

[JohnK]

Will be interesting to have this debate again once our product changes (inflight, gound/Lounge and Velocity) are all public. Will be the test of whether or not we got it right.

I would be happy to re-assess the situation once all details have been made public.

All the rest that you mentioned is correct but it gets into area of individual needs and there is not much point to discussion of those points other than that I recognise you have different wants and needs to me.

Which is why said we are now going off-topic and into opinions rather than facts.

Pricing is going to depend on route so it is fine to selectively look at the pricing on routes that suit you but that also makes it fine for me to selectively look at schedule on the routes that suit me.

I can't do much more than quote my personal experiences commuting SYD-BNE for the past 3 years. And just out of curiosity I find it hard to believe that what is true for SYD-BNE would not be true for SYD-MEL or SYD-ADL etc.

Perhaps I should look at a different route such as SYD-MEL and see if my theory is correct....

 

[medhead]

Which is why said we are now going off-topic and into opinions rather than facts.

I can't do much more than quote my personal experiences commuting SYD-BNE for the past 3 years. And just out of curiosity I find it hard to believe that what is true for SYD-BNE would not be true for SYD-MEL or SYD-ADL etc.

Perhaps I should look at a different route such as SYD-MEL and see if my theory is correct....

However, the topic of the thread lends itself to subjective discussion rather than facts.

I would suggest looking at ADL-SYD, QF730 and DJ401 during the current sale periods, or even 9,16, 23 May. Even 31 May where I need a flight instead of my booked 30 May flight. $201 vs $88 (or $119 normally). Mine you, I'm not complaining. Just noting the difference. I guess it is probably because of varying demand profiles for ADL vs the east coast. Also the Monday morning flight does save me the cost of a hotel on Sunday night.

No point discussing the return as the DJ flight just doesn't suit me based on schedule. But I think I noticed some variations to schedule later in 2011.

 

[oz_mark]

However, the topic of the thread lends itself to subjective discussion rather than facts.

Absolutely - the nature of the decision on value comes down to what is important to the individual flyer.

 

[JohnK]

However, the topic of the thread lends itself to subjective discussion rather than facts.

Absolutely - the nature of the decision on value comes down to what is important to the individual flyer.

It was a trick question.

Actually I did not create the thread. My post was taken out of another thread and this thread was created.

But of course it is up to the individual as to what is important. Some care about product offered. Some people want to save money and not care about fringe benefits. Others care about status. For others cost of airfare is not a concern as their company pays.

My scenario is only one scenario of many possible scenarios. But if you are interested in cheap airfares and status then for now (unfortunately if you like) the QFF program is far superior to DJ Velocity. I like the airfares to be as cheap as possible but if at the same time I can get status (for not much more spend if at all) then it is a huge bonus.

YMMV....