Why is Alan Joyce still Qantas' CEO?

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So the solution would seem to sack all the Caucasian staff and employ races with known good customer service repute?

FWIW it would be a real shame if it came to that, because the gems (irrespective of culture or race) in the company are truly amongst the best in the world. As I say often, if someone could make a robot modelled off a SQ FA, they would be filthy rich. But when QF get it right, they are the best because their FAs do so most naturally, viz. closest to how a real human behaves. Of course, if people want genuflecting robots, then so be it....

I don't have experience with SQ but I can say that TG,CX,OZ & JAL all have great customer service and it feels very natural because that's how they also behave outside their workplace.
Compared to a western airline, QF offers a very high level of service (in Europe it's much worse) but there is still a lot of room for improvement. There are too many senior staff who got too comfortable in their positions and forgot the golden rules of customer service (rule #1 The customer is ALWAYS right).
 
Sorry but I disagree - the customer isn't always right...
Just check out some of the complaints on the airlines FB pages and you will see what I mean.
 
Joyce and Clifford were both appointed, one by the board and the other by the shareholders as Union busters but they have forgotten to run the airline and have made too many bad calls. Board is largely clueless in my opinion. Shake up required and soon.

Totally agree the decisions come from the top and to many bad calls. Every time I fly with Qantas One tends to gets a disappointed feeling.

I do hope it all changes for the better, as change is needed looking at the share price is confirmation enough. Qantas deserves the best management available.
 
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Totally agree the decisions come from the top and to many bad calls. Every time I fly with Qantas One tends to gets a disappointed feeling.

I do hope it all changes for the better, as change is needed looking at the share price is confirmation enough. Qantas deserves the best management available.

But again, why is Joyce still the CEO if, by popular majority, it is unconscionable and just wrong for him to be so?

As I said, it's either something that we're not seeing to justify his effort, or a fairly gutless group of people keeping him in the top position. As much as Joyce wants to be CEO, his will alone cannot and will not retain his position.
 
Sorry but I disagree - the customer isn't always right...
Just check out some of the complaints on the airlines FB pages and you will see what I mean.

You take it too literally.
The art of customer service is giving the customer the feeling that he is always right, even when he is wrong and trying to solve problems without arguing.
When I use Asian carriers I feel they are always doing their best to accommodate all my needs, no "I can't be bothered" attitude and if there is a request they can't fulfil, they are very apologetic about it, no "can't be done, get over it" attitude some QF staff have.
QF has a very tough competition with the Asian carriers and if it can't match them on price, then AJ should at least put an effort in training his staff to match them on customer service.
 
You take it too literally.
The art of customer service is giving the customer the feeling that he is always right, even when he is wrong and trying to solve problems without arguing.
When I use Asian carriers I feel they are always doing their best to accommodate all my needs, no "I can't be bothered" attitude and if there is a request they can't fulfil, they are very apologetic about it, no "can't be done, get over it" attitude some QF staff have.
QF has a very tough competition with the Asian carriers and if it can't match them on price, then AJ should at least put an effort in training his staff to match them on customer service.

No - the customer isn't always right. Like anything there are good customers and those who aren't always reasonable.
 
But again, why is Joyce still the CEO if, by popular majority, it is unconscionable and just wrong for him to be so?

As I said, it's either something that we're not seeing to justify his effort, or a fairly gutless group of people keeping him in the top position. As much as Joyce wants to be CEO, his will alone cannot and will not retain his position.

EXACTLY and of course a CEO is not a popularity contest.
 
No - the customer isn't always right. Like anything there are good customers and those who aren't always reasonable.

You are missing the point. Off course the customer isn't always right. It's all about dealing with customers (some of them unreasonable) in a way that is not confronting and trying as hard as possible to solve the problem and keep them loyal to your business.
There are too many complaints about QF customer service and it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, the management must make some changes to stay competitive in the market.
 
EXACTLY and of course a CEO is not a popularity contest.

But he at least has to make his company popular and both he and the board have failed to do that.

Maybe his payout is so large that they can't afford it in their current circumstances :rolleyes:
 
You take it too literally.
The art of customer service is giving the customer the feeling that he is always right, even when he is wrong and trying to solve problems without arguing.
When I use Asian carriers I feel they are always doing their best to accommodate all my needs, no "I can't be bothered" attitude and if there is a request they can't fulfil, they are very apologetic about it, no "can't be done, get over it" attitude some QF staff have.
QF has a very tough competition with the Asian carriers and if it can't match them on price, then AJ should at least put an effort in training his staff to match them on customer service.

You are missing the point. Off course the customer isn't always right. It's all about dealing with customers (some of them unreasonable) in a way that is not confronting and trying as hard as possible to solve the problem and keep them loyal to your business.
There are too many complaints about QF customer service and it doesn't matter if they are right or wrong, the management must make some changes to stay competitive in the market.

This will go O/T but anyway...

I believe this is a very outdated phrase - it needs to be reinterpreted because now it is used and misinterpreted far more maliciously than its original intent (in spite noble).

Just as much as you believe people have mistaken the "literal" interpretation of this phrase, there are just as many - if not more - people (naturally those who don't work in customer service but are customers themselves anyway) who take the literal interpretation of this phrase for the customer side. The availability of imperative and public feedback methods popularised by social media juxtapose these kinds of cases. The result of this misinterpretation by customers is something which mannej has somewhat alluded to - a plethora of people who are unreasonable and use this phrase as a cover-all trump card to seemingly exemplify the utter lack of "customer service" or rather diplomacy on the part of the airline (or any company), when in fact it is the customer who is being undiplomatic (unwilling to negotiate) or unreasonable (attempting unfair moral or tactical gain from baseless or malicious intent).

You might say we can't "save these customers" - that's not how the public see it. It is interesting to see news outlets or "communication experts" or "social media experts" (whom I'm sure, again, at a per se level, are good at what they do) pick up the unreasonable cases and expose them as examples of a customer who has been badly wronged by the company. They have automatically assumed that the customer did nothing wrong, the customer is very reasonable and the customer is diplomatic. Some customers are, but more than a trivial amount are not (at the very least, initially). Again, due to social media, it is much easier these days for people to be judge, jury and executioner, which - as much as one may want to be believed that many companies are large, faceless and in general "bad guys" - is unfair on the company; they may have resolve eventually with the customer, but the paint has been splashed and the stain will never wash out.

Having worked in customer service before, whilst it does take training to do such positions, those who are good or at least trying are not trying to be undiplomatic (the first and foremost quality required - diplomacy) or unreasonable. But there are certainly customers who are trying to gain unfair advantage (in some cases they have deliberately "set up" the situation from the initial transaction to attempt to "game" the system, and would you believe the absolute outrage when we subtly call them out on their game).

To be diplomatic and to work towards a mutually agreeable outcome - although filled with buzzwords and jargo-vocabulary - is really the heart of the matter. To assume every customer is always right is no longer a reasonable epithet, is a dangerous precedent and there are clearly examples where customers are now using it to press their advantage.

I should finally qualify that of course this doesn't mean the disposition that all customers are unreasonable, or that all customers are unreasonable per se, is the correct attitude to adopt. Nor are all cases of customer service (including failures and recoveries) borne from the problem I describe above. We unfortunately don't celebrate customer service wins as much as we should (we report more on the paint splashing much more than it being cleaned up) - in fact, only the company reports on wins which are usually later decried by the general public as spin - not to mention that we often rate a company more on their failures rather than on their successes (which admittedly highly mirrors our behaviour as humans amongst other humans), but as much as you believe the literal misinterpretation is not a case to argue against the former "golden rule", I submit that there are far more than a trivial number of cases where this rule has done it's day, and if it's any service to the rule's noble beginnings, then it's quite the opposite - the rule is being destroyed.

EXACTLY and of course a CEO is not a popularity contest.

Popularity contest it may not be, but popularity is an inherent component of the diplomatic process of which - like politics - largely mirrors the method in which company management is composed, including the role of the CEO. The main difference versus the predominant western political system is the proportional distortion due to shareholding numbers which has a larger influence on displacing where the key interest of who really should decide the CEO (as it would seem), let alone the internal power of the board independent of the shareholders.

Now if that last statement is false then there's not much reason why Joyce should still be the CEO (in fact, he would've likely been dismissed some years ago). But from observing the current situation, we know this is not the case, or there is something else we do not know which is critical to understand (or, it is an unfortunate side-effect of the legislation and framework in which Australian companies may operate).
 
But he at least has to make his company popular and both he and the board have failed to do that.

Maybe his payout is so large that they can't afford it in their current circumstances :rolleyes:

Define "popular". The name is so noticeable, whether it be in success or failure.

The second statement is rather interesting, though they still have a significant amount in the bank, unless his payout is about a billion dollars....
 
Great thread management by anat01.. great post #70.
Hopefully the new year will bring more "thinking" threads of this ilk.
 
Define "popular". The name is so noticeable, whether it be in success or failure.

The second statement is rather interesting, though they still have a significant amount in the bank, unless his payout is about a billion dollars....

pop·u·lar (p
obreve.gif
p
prime.gif
y
schwa.gif
-l
schwa.gif
r)adj.1. Widely liked or appreciated: a popular resort.
2. Liked by acquaintances; sought after for company: "Beware of over-great pleasure in being popular or even beloved" (Margaret Fuller).
3. Of, representing, or carried on by the people at large: the popular vote.
4. Fit for, adapted to, or reflecting the taste of the people at large: popular entertainment; popular science.
5. Accepted by or prevalent among the people in general: a popular misunderstanding of the issue.
6. Suited to or within the means of ordinary people: popular prices.
7. Originating among the people: popular legend.

The term is relative and is often measured, in a commercial sense, by performance against competitors.

QF board may believe that AJ's payout is so large that it would not be politically (in the widest sense) acceptable in their financial circumastances, as opposed to cash available.
 
This will go O/T but anyway...

I believe this is a very outdated phrase - it needs to be reinterpreted because now it is used and misinterpreted far more maliciously than its original intent (in spite noble).

Just as much as you believe people have mistaken the "literal" interpretation of this phrase, there are just as many - if not more - people (naturally those who don't work in customer service but are customers themselves anyway) who take the literal interpretation of this phrase for the customer side. The availability of imperative and public feedback methods popularised by social media juxtapose these kinds of cases. The result of this misinterpretation by customers is something which mannej has somewhat alluded to - a plethora of people who are unreasonable and use this phrase as a cover-all trump card to seemingly exemplify the utter lack of "customer service" or rather diplomacy on the part of the airline (or any company), when in fact it is the customer who is being undiplomatic (unwilling to negotiate) or unreasonable (attempting unfair moral or tactical gain from baseless or malicious intent).

You might say we can't "save these customers" - that's not how the public see it. It is interesting to see news outlets or "communication experts" or "social media experts" (whom I'm sure, again, at a per se level, are good at what they do) pick up the unreasonable cases and expose them as examples of a customer who has been badly wronged by the company. They have automatically assumed that the customer did nothing wrong, the customer is very reasonable and the customer is diplomatic. Some customers are, but more than a trivial amount are not (at the very least, initially). Again, due to social media, it is much easier these days for people to be judge, jury and executioner, which - as much as one may want to be believed that many companies are large, faceless and in general "bad guys" - is unfair on the company; they may have resolve eventually with the customer, but the paint has been splashed and the stain will never wash out.

Having worked in customer service before, whilst it does take training to do such positions, those who are good or at least trying are not trying to be undiplomatic (the first and foremost quality required - diplomacy) or unreasonable. But there are certainly customers who are trying to gain unfair advantage (in some cases they have deliberately "set up" the situation from the initial transaction to attempt to "game" the system, and would you believe the absolute outrage when we subtly call them out on their game).

To be diplomatic and to work towards a mutually agreeable outcome - although filled with buzzwords and jargo-vocabulary - is really the heart of the matter. To assume every customer is always right is no longer a reasonable epithet, is a dangerous precedent and there are clearly examples where customers are now using it to press their advantage.

I should finally qualify that of course this doesn't mean the disposition that all customers are unreasonable, or that all customers are unreasonable per se, is the correct attitude to adopt. Nor are all cases of customer service (including failures and recoveries) borne from the problem I describe above. We unfortunately don't celebrate customer service wins as much as we should (we report more on the paint splashing much more than it being cleaned up) - in fact, only the company reports on wins which are usually later decried by the general public as spin - not to mention that we often rate a company more on their failures rather than on their successes (which admittedly highly mirrors our behaviour as humans amongst other humans), but as much as you believe the literal misinterpretation is not a case to argue against the former "golden rule", I submit that there are far more than a trivial number of cases where this rule has done it's day, and if it's any service to the rule's noble beginnings, then it's quite the opposite - the rule is being destroyed.

The "golden rule" is more of a starting point for good customer service. First, let's assume the customer is right and continue from there, opposite to starting with a negative attitude like, "you are wrong", "these are the rules", "computer says no" and so on...

I totally agree with you that some customers try to take advantage of certain situations in order to manipulate the system in their favour and they bring bad reputation to the business, but I do believe the majority are "innocent" customers who just want to get what they paid for and more then often they don't.

Relating a bit more to the topic, I hear too many complaints about the QF service, both on the ground and on board. It bothers me because I'm a loyal customer and I like this airline. Being WP/P1 for a quite a few years, I don't have to deal with the "regular" customer service, which I heard so many complaints about but I did have the "privilege" of experiencing some less then mediocre service on board. It's not bad compared to the American & European carriers, but that's not where QF is competing.
The problem is the Asian & Middle Eastern carriers have set the bar very high, focusing on J & F pax. Too many people I know are getting sick of paying a high price for QF and having to deal with old planes and bad service. I'm glad to see the old planes are being (slowly) refurbished, now it's time to refresh the customer service as well and match it to the competition.
 
Alea iacta est.

Qantas is headed in the direction of its North American legacy brethren. It will need new thinking to salvage it but at the moment it is a tragedy unfolding. Very sad.
 
He is still CEO because he has the luck of the Irish. Blame the Qantas Board, they put him there.
 
The grounding of the fleet was the single, most decisive event in Joyce's tenure. He managed to end the industrial disputes that were crippling QF.

It was also an event which lost Qantas at least $200m and the unquantifiable goodwill of passengers who were grounded or book away for fear of future groundings. I know lots of corporate accounts opened up afterwards to Virgin Australia and others because business travelers don't want their travel plans at the mercy of management and employees who are unable to tackle fundamental business cost issues without resorting to those sorts of catastrophic measures.

I suspect some of the QF Domestic loss of market share is a result of this decision. At a minimum, my contribution to that share.
 
Without wanting to sidetrack the thread I humbly disagree. The grounding was obviously done with full support of the board.

I know a number of c-suite execs at companies with big QF contracts who were travelling on VA for the first time in the weeks prior thanks to the rolling stoppages and slow downs - and this at companies with min %ge QF bookings. The slow-bake was hurting and getting worse.

I also think the final outcome was the worst one for QF. Gillard had the ability to invoke a different national interest clause and could have stopped the grounding but didn't and forced it to go to court adding 48hrs to the shutdown
 
It was also an event which lost Qantas at least $200m and the unquantifiable goodwill of passengers who were grounded or book away for fear of future groundings. I know lots of corporate accounts opened up afterwards to Virgin Australia and others because business travelers don't want their travel plans at the mercy of management and employees who are unable to tackle fundamental business cost issues without resorting to those sorts of catastrophic measures.

I suspect some of the QF Domestic loss of market share is a result of this decision. At a minimum, my contribution to that share.

You don't sell your family to the IRA for a bag of potatoes.

QANTAS doesn't, just doesn't, leave people stranded. Not here, not in Singapore, not in London. Not bloody anywhere.

The man is a fool.

So are the successive Commonwealth ministers who terminated the airline's security and then left it flailing in a sea of newly open landing slots.
 
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