Why stay loyal to Qantas...

[AustraliaPoochie]

Why?
Because VA still has a long way to go, in comparison to what AN was many years ago, Ansett that is.
Ok, VA fares can be lower sometimes in comparison to QF, for what I pay though when fares with QF and VA are only $10 difference, I would expect something a bit more from VA.
NOW, if they gave any time access (before a flight) for VA PS access to the lounge like what SG get, then, I would be swayed totally towards VA for all my Au domestic flights.
Right now, I am sort of half QF and VA.

 

[therudies86]

Although I'm a WP I wouldn't say that I'm loyal to Qantas.

I fly with them because it is in my interest - in this case because of the benefits of the QFF program (for me early access to extra leg room seats, better chance on upgrades, and lounge access). But if Qantas didn't offer these benefits given my anticipated flying, I would almost certainly spread the load across BFOD.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

from UL's own website they give MEL-CDG at 30 hours. compared to QF (changing in DXB) at 24 hours. As a leisure traveller I'm happy to wear 6 hours to save $5000 on the fare for a comparable seat, better service, and the opportunity to get good duty free in singapore.

if I was an economy passenger, I suspect I might be happy to take 6 hours longer, but get lounges, a bed, and a chauffeur car thrown in for a couple hundred dollars extra each way over another airline's economy. (An arrive ready to go rather than a day of jetlag.)

 

[RichardMEL]

from UL's own website they give MEL-CDG at 30 hours. compared to QF (changing in DXB) at 24 hours. As a leisure traveller I'm happy to wear 6 hours to save $5000 on the fare for a comparable seat, better service, and the opportunity to get good duty free in singapore.

if I was an economy passenger, I suspect I might be happy to take 6 hours longer, but get lounges, a bed, and a chauffeur car thrown in for a couple hundred dollars extra each way over another airline's economy. (An arrive ready to go rather than a day of jetlag.)

yes, but remember J fares are priced for the majority(? it would be interesting to know, if you ever could) of passengers who are not going to be leisure based, but more your corporate folks who that extra 6 hours could be half a day of meetings in Paris or London.

I understnd the point that even SQ/EY/CX etc undercut QF's pricing with comparable timings, and that's an issue of competition, and perhaps QF factoring in a certain amount of "home airline/country" loyalty (and corporate contracts) that they feel gives them a price advantage over the others.. I can't (and never would) speak for QF's pricing model but clearly they feel their model, shared with EK in this case to most of europe, works or they wouldn't charge so much.

 

[RichardMEL]

Why?
Because VA still has a long way to go, in comparison to what AN was many years ago, Ansett that is.
Ok, VA fares can be lower sometimes in comparison to QF, for what I pay though when fares with QF and VA are only $10 difference, I would expect something a bit more from VA.
NOW, if they gave any time access (before a flight) for VA PS access to the lounge like what SG get, then, I would be swayed totally towards VA for all my Au domestic flights.
Right now, I am sort of half QF and VA.

And if you pooled to one, then you'd have your gold status with one (which you do have with QF).

And frankly if Silvers were offered lounge access either to QF or VA lounges as you suggest you might as well go hang in the terminal, as that model would simply not work. The crowding would be ridiculous and VA/QF (whoever did this) would lose money hand over fist, or simply move to a more US airline lounge model where the bar isn't "free" and food is limited to packaged cheese and bikkies and salty snacks and you pay for anything else.

is that what you want AP? have at it, but you may find sitting out at the maccas more pleasureable. IMHO

 

[MEL_Traveller]

... works or they wouldn't charge so much.

but they were losing mountains of money on their international services - so obviously something wasn't right.

I was happy to see the latest QF 'New Horizons' sale - QF starting to price fares much more realistically. Perhaps that will stimulate demand.

As for leisure vs business fares... perhaps QF could look to LH. I don't know how successful LH has been, but they are offering a two-tier price structure for First class. Book far enough in advance (leisure) and you can get into the F cabin for little more than the regular business class fare. Need to buy it closer in and you're back at the regular levels.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And frankly if Silvers were offered lounge access either to QF or VA lounges as you suggest you might as well go hang in the terminal, as that model would simply not work.

interesting you should mention that! I read yesterday that SAS allows its silver members into lounges during the summer and winter holidays. Which I thought was a pretty good idea. There's lower business/premium demand, and at the same time ties in all those silvers who might fly another airline.

CX also offers its silver members lounge access to CX owned and operated lounges when flying CX or KA. Another great incentive.

The model does seem to work. (and is that not what QF has largely done anyway with its double SCs offers?)

 

[RichardMEL]

interesting you should mention that! I read yesterday that SAS allows its silver members into lounges during the summer and winter holidays. Which I thought was a pretty good idea. There's lower business/premium demand, and at the same time ties in all those silvers who might fly another airline.

CX also offers its silver members lounge access to CX owned and operated lounges when flying CX or KA. Another great incentive.

The model does seem to work. (and is that not what QF has largely done anyway with its double SCs offers?)

Interesting specially with SK.. that seems like a nice way to open it up and obviously not upset too many business types, and perhaps give some punters a taste of the "good life" to perhaps give them incentive to work towards it on a regular basis (I presume this is also why QF bundles a lounge pass in with its Silver membership - if they still do that is!). CX is interesting too.. I was not aware. I don't have time to look up how CX Silver qualification works compared to other OW airlines but is also interesting.

I would suggest that in the case of QF/VA domestic ops that volume would be an issue. Consider MEL-SYD-BNE - MEL-SYD is what the 3rd bussiest air corridor.. there's quite a load of pax on there.. then consider how the current lounges are (I can't speak for VA)... add in yet another layer of pax coming in? I can't see it.

I'd also note there's a reason in the USA that the US programs (eg: UA, AA) do not grant their own elites access to domestic lounges, even when their alliance partner equivalents can get in - it's a simple volume issue there.

Maybe a compromise could be that between Silver and Gold levels for either QFF or VA you could say give folks another pass for every 50 or 100 SC's earned or maybe say when you're half way to Gold give 2 or 3 as a sort of Silver+ level. I could see that working.

 

[RichardMEL]

Oh on the point of the QF DSC offers... I see this as different to simply allowing lounge access at the Silver level since your DSC (or even 50% SC) offers are incentive to purchase more with the airline. Sure, end result is, in theory, you could fairly easily bump to Gold and that gets included, but in my book the difference is there's no incentive to purchase more, or up if you just give access, but a bonus offer is stimulating demand.

 

[medhead]

+1 with the general gist of responses here. It's called a "Frequent Flyer" elite level for a reason... a few trips a year well... unless it's paid F to LHR or something why should one be rewarded with status and the perks of that?

Still a few trips a year, even in F, is not frequent. Of course, someone in paid F doesn't need status.

 

[samh004]

If I was only 10SC short of Silver I'd just book an extra flight somewhere. But based on a couple years at Platinum and a few at Gold, you can't be too far off Lifetime Silver, which while not offering a lot, is something.

 

[RichardMEL]

Still a few trips a year, even in F, is not frequent. Of course, someone in paid F doesn't need status.

Absolutely but in a world where it's all about revenue your paid F ticket is "worth more" literally and yield wise than a few Y domestic trips or a family trip to DPS. And sure, your paid J/F pax doesn't need status for sure, but you'd get enough SC etc if you had a paid F to LAX/JNB/LHR etc to make Silver anyway.

btw with regards to my recent posts I'm not trying to defend the airlines or anything, but more playing devil's advocate or rather trying to see things from the business point of view - as in what's in it for the airlines to provide status for a few trips, or as the recent thread swing to lounge access for silvers.

I'd also note on that topic imagine the gnashing of teeth from current Golds if Silvers were given lounge access... status devaluation, crowding, what's the point to make Gold.... WP is even more worthless etc.

my point being there are many and varied reasons for various policies

 

[medhead]

Absolutely but in a world where it's all about revenue your paid F ticket is "worth more" literally and yield wise than a few Y domestic trips or a family trip to DPS. And sure, your paid J/F pax doesn't need status for sure, but you'd get enough SC etc if you had a paid F to LAX/JNB/LHR etc to make Silver anyway.

btw with regards to my recent posts I'm not trying to defend the airlines or anything, but more playing devil's advocate or rather trying to see things from the business point of view - as in what's in it for the airlines to provide status for a few trips, or as the recent thread swing to lounge access for silvers.

I'd also note on that topic imagine the gnashing of teeth from current Golds if Silvers were given lounge access... status devaluation, crowding, what's the point to make Gold.... WP is even more worthless etc.

my point being there are many and varied reasons for various policies

Acknowlegded re: the devil's advocate.

The thing about revenue is kinda my point. It makes the retort that it is a "frequent flyer" program more or less pointless. That might be the name but it is really a revenue program regardless of how often one flies. In the past someone like the OP who only ever flies with qantas would be recognised via loyalty bonus. Something that Qantas no longer care about, I would have thought that recognising someone like the OP who is loyal would have some benefit to Qantas. Sure it's not going to be headline stuff, but I really have to wonder about burning a core group of people who only fly qantas. Is it clever to encourage these customers to fly with the competition?

 

[Spongbob]

Not too sure if this helps the discussion, but the QFF program has two aspects: points and status. I suggest of the 10 million QFF members, about 9.5 million only care about points, and would fly QF for leisure (i.e. based on timings, convenience and price), and use their points for Award flights and/or upgrades. The other 0.5 million focus on status (with points being a subsidiary benefit), with most of their fights paid by an employer.

In short, the OP's comment that the QFF program is not for "ordinary people" overlooks the 95% of points-interested members. But if you are a status-interested member and use your own funds, QFF may not be the best frequent flyer program for you (not too sure if there is a FF program that is more appropriate for your needs).

 

[drron]

interesting you should mention that! I read yesterday that SAS allows its silver members into lounges during the summer and winter holidays. Which I thought was a pretty good idea. There's lower business/premium demand, and at the same time ties in all those silvers who might fly another airline.

CX also offers its silver members lounge access to CX owned and operated lounges when flying CX or KA. Another great incentive.

The model does seem to work. (and is that not what QF has largely done anyway with its double SCs offers?)

But what would those airlines know.The proper thing to do in summer holidays with less business travellers is to close your premium lounge.much fairer and simpler!

 

[exceladdict]

...and use their points for Award flights and/or upgrades.

and/or toasters.

 

[Quickstatus]

I really don't understand the way businesses try really hard to get market share - ie get new customers, but once those customers are in the fold they are ignored. Surely it is more important and cheaper to keep existing customers ad prevent them going to the competition.

A frequent flyer program seems to be at least on one dimension a serious attempt to keep existing customers. However on any Qantas flight (and others) the vast majority of passengers are BFOD with perhaps to varying degrees loyalty to an aussie brand, rainman sentimentality, route and schedule attractiveness. Some may dabble a bit in the FF side of things. And in recent times, Qantas (and others) seem to be investing in making the experiences of the BFOD passengers better. When Qantas is good they are really good.

However the majority of QF's big announcements have been toward the high value customer and premium end of town while largely ignoring their largest demographic - the Y and Y- passengers. (granted there has been announcements in international Y catering).

Note to Qantas:

The boarding gates are some of the most boring places on earth. Those not in lounges are in the boarding gates. The reason why some of these people board late is because there is nothing to do except look at their idevice. Improve the experience in your boarding gates.
Why divide the departure area into different gates, why not make it into a mega lounge/pub. Make the prices reasonable add in some nice and maybe live entertainment. Look at establishments that have good patronage - they are self funding, people are prepared to pay for drinks and food. What is so different to a departure gate/area. Currently the QF Dom departure area has a smattering of independent stores, people come and go but its boring...Look at Laguardia they re going in the right direction..... The entire departure area looks like a lounge, the difference is that its at the gates and you buy your food and drink.

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

I would think that the reasons to stay loyal to Qantas are:

- you are close to a lifetime status level and want to reach that
- you think your flying might actually get you to reach a particular status level
- the safety record

Reasons not to be loyal:

- $$$ (are points and status credits worth the extra $ which a QF fare is compared to other airlines, when even the exact same flights on an EK fare will be much cheaper, let alone the mixed fare tickets others have pointed out in this thread which would give you most status benefits anyway)
- QFF points (one of the most devalued frequent flyer currencies in the world)
- it's a corporation (any decision they make will be guided by their own best interest. Loyalty programs are inherently designed to make you act in their best interest, sometimes against your own best interest).

 

[Quickstatus]

I would think that the reasons to stay loyal to Qantas are:

- you are close to a lifetime status level and want to reach that
- you think your flying might actually get you to reach a particular status level
- the safety record

Reasons not to be loyal:

- $$$ (are points and status credits worth the extra $ which a QF fare is compared to other airlines, when even the exact same flights on an EK fare will be much cheaper, let alone the mixed fare tickets others have pointed out in this thread which would give you most status benefits anyway)
- QFF points (one of the most devalued frequent flyer currencies in the world)
- it's a corporation (any decision they make will be guided by their own best interest. Loyalty programs are inherently designed to make you act in their best interest, sometimes against your own best interest).

I think once you reach Lifetime status there would be no need to chase status and I can imagine these folk will do BFOD more often...

 

[Supersonic Swinger]

I think once you reach Lifetime status there would be no need to chase status and I can imagine these folk will do BFOD more often...

I have reached LT Silver and continue to credit OW flights to QF but only if they are BFOD. The decade long 'enhancements' to QFF leave me cynical about what LT Gold might still be if I ever get there - it smells like a prime candidate to be made 'Simpler and Fairer' TM. My hard earned cash is too important to spend chasing things which an airline loyalty program management can alter or delete based on circumstances I have no control over.