Why stay loyal to Qantas...

Status
Not open for further replies.
Acknowlegded re: the devil's advocate.

The thing about revenue is kinda my point. It makes the retort that it is a "frequent flyer" program more or less pointless. That might be the name but it is really a revenue program regardless of how often one flies. In the past someone like the OP who only ever flies with qantas would be recognised via loyalty bonus. Something that Qantas no longer care about, I would have thought that recognising someone like the OP who is loyal would have some benefit to Qantas. Sure it's not going to be headline stuff, but I really have to wonder about burning a core group of people who only fly qantas. Is it clever to encourage these customers to fly with the competition?

Totally agree, but here's the thing - where do you (if you're QF) set the bar? The case of the OP as suggested by someone else earlier, after some years of WP status and more of Gold, could well be close to LTS.. To me, this is an effort by QF (and of course they are not the only one who do this for sure, United, America, BA etc all track lifetime "loyalty") and reward. I don't know if QF does or doesn't care about the loyalty bonus.. I kind of forget about it myself till I see oh whee did that 8k points come from? but that Silver who hits that 500 (and I recall whenit used to be what 400 or 450?) SC threshold get a nice bonus. LTS/LTS rewards longer term loyalty over years.

Agree totally QFF has been a revenue based (in one form or another) system for years, decades even if you consider Status/Tier credits from day one as essentially equating status accural being tied to fare paid. That the US based (and other) carriers have only recently taken the plunge (led by DL and copycat UA) is obviously taking the model that "worked" (from their point of you!) elsewhere.

As also noted, a huge proportion of QFF membership accrue points and blow them on an award to Bali or something. Heck I had a friend who thought the sky was falling a year or so back thinking QF would fail and redeemed >190k QFF points for woolies vouchers (I do not know if she bought a toaster with those :D ) even though I told her not to worry and that was a fair stash that could be used for her dream trip to Europe. Her choice. Most people have a short term (relative) value of their QFF points. Either way she as a (former) QFF member had no interest or probably really understanding of status.

Most customers wouldn't. We value it because most of us fly a lot and value the perks.

So back to the OP, let's say they have I dunno 6000 SC Lifteime SC... should QF recognise that over 7000? maybe at 4000? where do you draw the line?

anyway just some thughts
 
As also noted, a huge proportion of QFF membership accrue points and blow them on an award to Bali or something. Heck I had a friend who thought the sky was falling a year or so back thinking QF would fail and redeemed >190k QFF points for woolies vouchers (I do not know if she bought a toaster with those :D ) even though I told her not to worry and that was a fair stash that could be used for her dream trip to Europe. Her choice.

I just threw up in my mouth reading that bit :( What a waste!
 
I just threw up in my mouth reading that bit :( What a waste!

I apologise for the damage to your system...

yeah I was flabbergasted.... but by the time she told me it was done.. I just thought well what can I say? I thought I'd be positive and hoped she bought good things with her vouchers and enjoyed... I figured anything else wouldn't help the friendship lol but inside I was rolling all 4 of my eyes in multiple directions and quietly imploding at the notion lol
 
Actually... is the Woollies deal such a bad one?? 190K points seems to get you $1250 to spend at Woolworths. Add to that the taxes and qantas charges you'd pay on a flight to london (currently $893.52 for economy) and you 'have' $2150 of value in your hand.

Now that's almost enough to buy yourself a mixed class fare in business class to Europe - with no fussing about award availability, and you'd earn points and SCs.

Even if you looked at a business class redemption to Asia... the woollies $$ plus the taxes and qantas fees and you could buy a revenue business class ticket on a smaller airline.

Woollies vouchers may not be the best deal, but I don't think they're the worst either once the qantas charges are factored in.
 
Do our footie players go out on the field without learning the rules?

So if you consider that the outcome of your flying is less than optimistic, have you taken the time to learn the "flying rules"?

I didn't think so.

While QF has made it more difficult to earn partner SCs, it is not impossible. Especially in the USA where AA is a close partner. And I'll second the reference to UL. Sri Lanka is a wonderful place for a short stopover on the way from Australia to Europe. And in-expensive. And the hop to SIN or BKK in J class is cheap-ish (Pick either MH or UL). Solving any issues with SCs at the Silver level.

Happy wandering

Fred
 
EXCLUSIVE OFFER - Offer expires: 20 Jan 2025

- Earn up to 200,000 bonus Velocity Points*
- Enjoy unlimited complimentary access to Priority Pass lounges worldwide
- Earn up to 3 Citi reward Points per dollar uncapped

*Terms And Conditions Apply

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

I really don't understand the way businesses try really hard to get market share - ie get new customers, but once those customers are in the fold they are ignored. Surely it is more important and cheaper to keep existing customers ad prevent them going to the competition.

I've been in the loyalty game for the better part of the last decade (telco, airline and now hotel) and can tell you most companies Dont know what to do with the data they have. Everyone knows its more cost effective to keep an existing customer than to get a new one but how do you prove ROI and show quantified metrics around this to get budget from upstairs to maintain or increase spend in this area?

Partial problem is the wrong people are in the job. They're working there because its a job and not because they love numbers or the overall company strategy.

Another issue is internal analysts being guided by marketing, retention/loyalty, internal sales and corporate all at the same time. They're simply doing the work they're told to do. There is little creativity.

"If it ain't broke don't fix it". The company is making money and they can't quantify what not having a real retention strategy in place is costing in lost opportunity($) - so why bother?

People making the decisions are not the customers. No matter how many surveys, customer focus groups, panels or research nights you do it will never replace actually being the affected customer. Even then, most customers couldn't tell you what's wrong or how yo fix it.

Tesco is the poster child for loyalty back in the early 2000s and its where most employees in loyalty get their inspiration from. There's a book about it that I'm sure is mandatory reading for interns these days.

All of these challenges add up to one giant issue that not many companies in loyalty know how to address.

What they end up doing is picking the low hanging fruit. A new fee here a drop in reward here, new promotion over here.

All of these efforts kind of work to a degree and so long as they continue to generate the company revenue why would management care to make any changes or make any changes?

Like most things in life, its what we Dont see that affects us the most.
 
Totally agree, but here's the thing - where do you (if you're QF) set the bar? The case of the OP as suggested by someone else earlier, after some years of WP status and more of Gold, could well be close to LTS.. To me, this is an effort by QF (and of course they are not the only one who do this for sure, United, America, BA etc all track lifetime "loyalty") and reward. I don't know if QF does or doesn't care about the loyalty bonus.. I kind of forget about it myself till I see oh whee did that 8k points come from? but that Silver who hits that 500 (and I recall whenit used to be what 400 or 450?) SC threshold get a nice bonus. LTS/LTS rewards longer term loyalty over years.

Agree totally QFF has been a revenue based (in one form or another) system for years, decades even if you consider Status/Tier credits from day one as essentially equating status accural being tied to fare paid. That the US based (and other) carriers have only recently taken the plunge (led by DL and copycat UA) is obviously taking the model that "worked" (from their point of you!) elsewhere.

As also noted, a huge proportion of QFF membership accrue points and blow them on an award to Bali or something. Heck I had a friend who thought the sky was falling a year or so back thinking QF would fail and redeemed >190k QFF points for woolies vouchers (I do not know if she bought a toaster with those :D ) even though I told her not to worry and that was a fair stash that could be used for her dream trip to Europe. Her choice. Most people have a short term (relative) value of their QFF points. Either way she as a (former) QFF member had no interest or probably really understanding of status.

Most customers wouldn't. We value it because most of us fly a lot and value the perks.

So back to the OP, let's say they have I dunno 6000 SC Lifteime SC... should QF recognise that over 7000? maybe at 4000? where do you draw the line?

anyway just some thughts

Yes well the OP may be close to lifetime status. I guess I was thinking of my children as an example. They fly nowhere near 500 SC a year. Remembering loyalty bonus is annual now. My platinum status is kinda useless for family trips which are usually with SWMBO's siblings and their partners, so no lounge access. No loyalty for everyone else. So we might as well fly cheapest or most convenient airline. Meaning there are two children who are not learning that flying means Qantas.

Anyway.

Oh also just to pop in the I used 180000 points +~$600 for 5 business seats ADL-AKL. Same flight on sale for $4500, as half of a return fare. Or $1625 for a Y fare. So 180000 points saved me paying either $1000 or $3900.

(Yes platinum benefit seat release ;) )
 
Last edited:
I have a dilemma. A bucket load of points and I am having great difficulty redeeming them for what I want.

So the next dilemma is what to do about travel to Thailand. Picking a random month of September when i want to go next and there are a few options.

Qantas sale currently ~$700 BNE-CNX return (~$900 outside sale) and will earn me as a Platinum around 10,000 QFF points. My gripe with Qantas is that I am not able to preselect bulkhead seats so need to pay $180 extra to sit in exit row. Still a good deal and I get some points.

Singapore Airlines is $1100 BNE-CNX return to be able to credit either on KrisFlyer or Velocity. And that does not solve the bulkhead/exit row situation either.

Thai Airways is $1100 BNE-CNX return to be able to credit to KrisFlyer. And again that does not solve the bulkhead/exit row situation either.

I can wait for Thai or Singapore to have a sale but their sales are few and far between and that gets us closer to September and the less likelihood of finding the right availability at the price I want to pay.

There are other options such as Jetstar, Scoot, Air Asia etc but with luggage, golf clubs, seat selection etc the cost comes close to $700 if not more so no point torturing myself if I am not able to save anything.

I would love to find a cost effective alternative but in my situation everywhere I turn and that answer is still Qantas. I keep thinking I am missing something but everywhere I turn the answer does not change. Not that simple for all.
 
I wish I had the option, but sadly ex PER, to Asia IMPOSSIBLE.

It was always great to be welcomed aboard, in most cases, with G'day and then the Aussie humour.

Sadly these days are gone..........
 
I have a dilemma. A bucket load of points and I am having great difficulty redeeming them for what I want.

So the next dilemma is what to do about travel to Thailand. Picking a random month of September when i want to go next and there are a few options.

Qantas sale currently ~$700 BNE-CNX return (~$900 outside sale) and will earn me as a Platinum around 10,000 QFF points. My gripe with Qantas is that I am not able to preselect bulkhead seats so need to pay $180 extra to sit in exit row. Still a good deal and I get some points.

Singapore Airlines is $1100 BNE-CNX return to be able to credit either on KrisFlyer or Velocity. And that does not solve the bulkhead/exit row situation either.

Thai Airways is $1100 BNE-CNX return to be able to credit to KrisFlyer. And again that does not solve the bulkhead/exit row situation either.

I can wait for Thai or Singapore to have a sale but their sales are few and far between and that gets us closer to September and the less likelihood of finding the right availability at the price I want to pay.

There are other options such as Jetstar, Scoot, Air Asia etc but with luggage, golf clubs, seat selection etc the cost comes close to $700 if not more so no point torturing myself if I am not able to save anything.

I would love to find a cost effective alternative but in my situation everywhere I turn and that answer is still Qantas. I keep thinking I am missing something but everywhere I turn the answer does not change. Not that simple for all.

Wha is the routing on QF for BNE-CNX?

Also not sure where you get Thais prices from but they currently have a sale on and for all of September are $900 return for BNE-CNX.
 
Singapore Airlines is $1100 BNE-CNX return to be able to credit either on KrisFlyer or Velocity. And that does not solve the bulkhead/exit row situation either.

SQ charges USD40 for exit-row/other preferred seating. (each way AUD-SIN, and USD20 for short haul to Thailand)
 
great thread this one!
the Customer Analytics is integral to the program... but its is of course trial and error, but what was explained above looks on the money, that said, the trick is to make yourself look like you need persuasion rather than a sleeping dog or sure thing as if you buy anyway, whats the point of offering you more - the status credits is a tricky one, as it would appear the leisure traveller has no real chance (unless paying direct for business/first or the USA AA 1st LOTFAP trips at the cut price fares) of raking in the perks of continual travel paid by someone else - the business market being one where its all paid by a 3rd party - when you gotta put your own money out there fair enough to go for BFOD. I would point out that ansett loyalty affected many people too, as that put me 10 years behind on status credits in the QF program, no transfer value applied, at least i had two free trips to europe that I bought with Ansett points before it expired...
the other point i did a search on UL just now, and it would appear there's a 2for1 deal going on business class fares so the comparisons perhaps aren't like for like as the other airlines don't - and of course because other airlines fly into different cities in europe,, not easy to get a direct comparison, not exactly wanting to go to London everytime i travel there just for transit!
Last point, every system will have its loopholes - what i really like about this website is that it uncovers them for others to share in the delight...trouble is most people dont have the luxury of holidays at the time cheap fares are available, and because they are struck with some kind of Retail Price Optimisation in mind and to avoid constant rate adjustments, high demand periods will always come with higher fares, which competition will to some degree keep within floor and ceiling limits (better to have a seat filled with revenue than zero dollars) and for us as the consumers, it ultimately comes down to how quickly we can accumulate points to convert to the high value fares instead of paying the full cost of money. Other than that, we prefer to "shop around" and make comparisons preferably without having daily changes to fares which I and most other consumers find frustrating, the retail price optimisation model doesn't subscribe to the view that you do that, the core price ought be set for a period of time with a view that it is discounted, not raised (ie better as a consumer to pay whats asked and perhaps be pleasantly surprised by an extra discount, than lumbered with a price uplift, in the time it takes to make a booking!)
 
Chasing status is fairly pointless if you don't actually fly very much. You'd be better off going for BFOD and maybe looking around for business class deals on cheaper airlines. Unfortunately Qantas do not consider a couple of economy overseas flights a year a sign of loyalty.

They might. But certainly not a sign of frequency. And that's what the programme is called, Qantas FREQUENT flyer.
I too am loyal, and only through hard Yakka do I manage WP.
Frequency is the only way (imho) to keep status. Unless you fly F or J to LHR a couple of times a year.
Once I attain LTS, I will at least be able to pair that with my LTQC to give me some respite from the madding crowds when travelling.
 
They might. But certainly not a sign of frequency. And that's what the programme is called, Qantas FREQUENT flyer.

Semantics, it's a loyalty scheme that basically rewards spend, not frequency, and is increasingly focused on generating revenue from activities that don't involve aircraft at all.

It would take 70 return flights ADL/SYD to get Platinum now (47 before Fairer & Simpler) - that's not just frequency, that's madness :)
 
[ Devil's advocate/other side hat on ]

Yes, QF is a loyalty scheme rewarding revenue/spend. There is no argument there. Gone are the good old days as it were... and remember it's a private business that's running this. Also think of it this way, various aspects of higher tiers of status - Gold and WP, come with a cost to the airline to provide it - in some cases the cost maybe minimal, and in others it could be substantial - consider, as example, those flying on a cheapo JQ fare eating and drinking up big in the F lounge prior (cost). WP's using AA Flagship lounges (QF is charged) on those status runs in the USA, use of BA complex at LHR or EK at DXB etc, let alone domestic clubs cost food, staff, drink etc. I imagine the numbers of paid memberships of QC, even with the corporates, don't cover the costs of running these things. Now, yes, providing these services is part of your legacy or "full service" airline model.. without them it might as well be Jetstar or Tiger.....

with all that in mind, here's my point - looking at it from the provider point of view - where do you decide the cost/benefit is there to wear this cost vs the yield generated by the patronage? the whole SC concept has always been about "rewarding" your spend - your lower Y fares getting the least and the full F more - as we all know.

Essentially this comes down to, and I hate to use this phrase, what "value" we as customers have to a company like QF (yes, everyone's special in their own right :D ).

And in the reverse, we as customers, make our choices based on how much we value the companies that provide services to us (in this case, airlines). For some, the pros of QF are worth it, be it using their status for releasing award space, or F lounge access, or upgrade priority.. for some it will not be worth it, and they go BFOD. Each of us in our own way make a cost/benefit analysis of one sort of another when approaching a desired outcome (JohnK's example of BNE-CNX).

I just lost status with another carrier. why? I didn't fly with them. That's the way it works. Now, I may fly again, and get status back and that's fine, but that's the system. Now I am ~80% of the way to a lifetime status goal in that airline's program, but I don't think previous years of top tier status with them should entitle me to anything more at this point.

It's kind of like "What have you done for me lately?" sort of thing. harsh, but true.

At the end of the day it's obviously VERY individual as to how we value things, just as we ourselves are valued (in a corporate, monetary sense) by all sorts of companies we deal with - by this I am thinking of things like your credit card rating, or debt rating or whatever it's called here.. or how much a bank maybe prepared to loan you (based on you rincome and risk assessment etc), a utility company based on your customer history, and airline (on your spend/long term history).

back to QF they do provide ways to show some measure of "reocognition" eg soft landings, LTS/LTG, retention incentives like Bonus offers etc) but they're not a charity to give out the good stuff to everyone. They'd go broke doing that and again those who EARNED the top tiers would be up in arms. Yes, earned by paying for it either in massive BIS miles, or massive spend (eg: your return F tix to LHR vs 30 ADL-SYD oneways).

I am reminded of the infamous "Baht Runs" circa 2000 where certain enterprising individuals went to Thailand and either flew themselves, or paid others (seriously!) to fly insane 10+ sectors a day at rock bottom TG domestic fares racking up elite sector qualifying numbers and getting to UA's 1K status (which was then the top of the tree sort of like P1 is for QF now). I think it cost at the time like $1k or $1400 USD or so to do this. This is not the sort of elite customer UA wanted... that was quickly clamped down on. Imagine if all of us could get QFF WP or even P1 for a thousand bucks.. everyone would have it and it would mean nothing (yes I know YUP fans can do very close to this for a few grand, but you still need your 4 QF~). No offence to anyone here who does this kind of thing (heck, I've been known to do a few in my day) but these are not the customers QF really want.... and this is why your P1 qual requires 2700 or whatever it is SC worth on "QF" flights).

Let me finish with putting this whole thing into a much more general analogy, though a poor one... say you have a friend.. a friend you've known a while... for a time you give and take equally from the friendship.. but then it's more of you giving and them taking and it feels unfair because they're not giving back as much.. what do you do? (yes I know a "corporate relationship" such as between QF/QFF and it's members is hardly a friendship in the social sense which is why my analogy is poor but I hope the general gist of my idea gets across :) ).
 
Wha is the routing on QF for BNE-CNX?
BNE-SYD-BKK-CNX.

The current airfare via multi-trip is $764 + $180 for exit row + $30 credit card surcharge.

For those in the know does window exit row on A330 attract surcharge? I forget whether legroom is restricted or not.

Also not sure where you get Thais prices from but they currently have a sale on and for all of September are $900 return for BNE-CNX.
That's not what I get. Outbound 02 Sep and inbound 12 Sep airfare is ~$1100 and is only partial mileage accrual. Books into W class and on KrisFlyer no earn on international sectors. Full mileage accrual is ~$1270. And then extra for exit row if that's possible.
 
BNE-SYD-BKK-CNX.

The current airfare via multi-trip is $764 + $180 for exit row + $30 credit card surcharge.

For those in the know does window exit row on A330 attract surcharge? I forget whether legroom is restricted or not.


That's not what I get. Outbound 02 Sep and inbound 12 Sep airfare is ~$1100 and is only partial mileage accrual. Books into W class and on KrisFlyer no earn on international sectors. Full mileage accrual is ~$1270. And then extra for exit row if that's possible.

Are you clicking through to their sale fares? Thai has a crazy website design where their sale fares don't show in the main engine when you do a search, you actually have to click through where they advertise the sales. It must lose them a crazy amount of bookings just through this design of the website not showing their cheapest fare available. It also means a lot of the time the aggregators don't pick up their cheapest fares either. I actually brought this to the attention of the Melbourne office and they responded that people/customers prefer it this way, haha.

You can't pay for exit rows on Thai, they are allocated at the airport.
 
Are you clicking through to their sale fares? Thai has a crazy website design where their sale fares don't show in the main engine when you do a search, you actually have to click through where they advertise the sales. It must lose them a crazy amount of bookings just through this design of the website not showing their cheapest fare available. It also means a lot of the time the aggregators don't pick up their cheapest fares either. I actually brought this to the attention of the Melbourne office and they responded that people/customers prefer it this way, haha.

You can't pay for exit rows on Thai, they are allocated at the airport.
Interesting trap. Clicking on sales airfares it is $920 in W class with partial mileage accrual or $1084 in Q class with full mileage accrual. Bulkhead/exit row before airport would be nice.

Qantas still in front from where I am standing.

And once you factor in Australian domestic connection included free or very cheap that suits me perfectly as golf clubs are in SYD, lounge access including SYD First lounge then Qantas are even further in front.

Hard for me to go to the competition with little incentive to do so. No point in change for change sake.
 
Hard for me to go to the competition with little incentive to do so. No point in change for change sake.

DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!!! :D

This is EXACTLY what all those marketing and loyalty types at QFF want all their members/customers to think! :)
 
DING DING DING DING! We have a winner!!! :D

This is EXACTLY what all those marketing and loyalty types at QFF want all their members/customers to think! :)
That's not the case.

The simple facts for BNE-CNX return in September is Qantas airfare ~$800 with all the trimmings including QFF 100SCs and QFF points.

The next best is Thai airfare ~$920 with only BKK-CNX earning miles.

If you had no status which would you choose? With status (including Lifetime Gold) it is extremely difficult to move away.

And I'm sure this doesn't work out in Qantas' favour on every route.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Become an AFF member!

Join Australian Frequent Flyer (AFF) for free and unlock insider tips, exclusive deals, and global meetups with 65,000+ frequent flyers.

AFF members can also access our Frequent Flyer Training courses, and upgrade to Fast-track your way to expert traveller status and unlock even more exclusive discounts!

AFF forum abbreviations

Wondering about Y, J or any of the other abbreviations used on our forum?

Check out our guide to common AFF acronyms & abbreviations.
Back
Top