Will you still earn/retain Velocity status beyond 2025?

[justinbrett]

How so? A passenger on one of their new international flights will be paying a fair bit and should qualify for platinum more easily ( fewer flights, at least) than pure domestic flyers.

Again, they are rewarding people who spend money with them not partner Airlines.

Just the comments in the podcast

Is QR not a partner airline also?

 

[33kft]

The 'quality' of Jetstar's customer base has degraded since the collapse of Tiger. The 'party squads' looking to get to their boozy holiday as cheaply as possible now only have one airline to fly.

So in markets where VA and JQ compete on price, we need to fly QF to avoid the riff raff?

 

[levelnine]

So in markets where VA and JQ compete on price, we need to fly QF to avoid the riff raff?

In what markets is VA equally priced to JQ?

 

[MarkD]

Hold on.

You have status with VA for several more years. You do not have particularly valuable status with QF (your profile says Silver). You are paying more to fly QF even though you have fewer benefits and no lounge access.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

No. Not cutting my nose off to spite my face. Using bfod. Where did I say the QF fare was more expensive on my bookings? BFOD means best fare of day and as it stands QF have been better fare given the times and routes I have booked.

 

[MarkD]

Another point to consider in relation to the suggestion that people will start flying Jetstar instead of Virgin.

The 'quality' of Jetstar's customer base has degraded since the collapse of Tiger. The 'party squads' looking to get to their boozy holiday as cheaply as possible now only have one airline to fly.

It was interesting hearing someone say this to me last week — they were on a flight full of really poorly behaved young men and have sworn off flying Jetstar again. The financial savings compared to Virgin were not worth the unpleasantness of the experience.

My prediction is a lot of the people who are threatening to fly Jetstar will be back to Virgin after one unpleasant experience.

And you think the VA Bali bogan bus is any better? Had a VA flight attendant mention that she practically cries when allocated to a DPS Flight because of the entitled drunken morons that frequent that flight.

 

[levelnine]

No. Not cutting my nose off to spite my face. Using bfod. Where did I say the QF fare was more expensive on my bookings? BFOD means best fare of day and as it stands QF have been better fare given the times and routes I have booked.

But why weren't you actively chasing BFOD prior to the changes? In your own words, 'For a coffee and sandwich in the lounge im better off flying jq or qf and going without a lounge.' Why was that not always the case?

 

[MarkD]

Would the new regime prevent this? Quick back of the napkin math, it's $6,000 for VA Gold, or $1,500 per flight for 4 flights to reach Gold.

VA flights SYD-PER in J are going for $1,600 each way. You could get VA Gold in 4 east-west legs, could you do that previously? No, because SYD-PER would earn 105 SC in J, for a total of 420 SC with the target being 500 to earn Gold (yes, it would have allowed you to requal)

The point is, it doesn't seem to actually make earning status harder, it just shifts the emphasis from the mileage calculation to price calculation, ie if you pay for the more expensive flights on any given day you'll earn it quicker. This is entirely at odds with all claims that this new regime either reduces the ability for infrequent flyers to qualify, or rewards those who fly the most.

It rewards those who pay the most, and who fly VA/codeshares over partners, this is indeed true.

So on many occasions you can buy J seats cheaper than flex Y. Who in their right mind is going to pay more for a y seat than J ? I just dont get their game

 

[MarkD]

But why weren't you actively chasing BFOD prior to the changes? In your own words, 'For a coffee and sandwich in the lounge im better off flying jq or qf and going without a lounge.' Why was that not always the case?

Because the game has changed. I flew quite often J. More J than Y due to cheap J fares. The incentive to do so is now gone as the SC earn has been halved on my normal flight sector on a discount J fare. They have made someone who was quite loyal see the light and just fly at a time and fare class that suits me. No more flying several hours earlier or later than what i usually would to be on VA. NOW ITS WHAT i want, not them. Its common sense if they want to make status double the cost why should i bother to be loyal. In reality if i continued to stay with all flights on VA id likely drop to gold and at a push maybe maintain platinum but why should I ? We have quite a few overseas trips planned over next 12 months and I can save coughloads flying good quality carriers that arent part of VA Partners for thousands less and further my domestic flying when it suits me. Dont use lounges a lot anyway, the only part that is of benefit is priority boarding and priority checkin if travelling with luggage.
Further. You will find many on here are similar, in that we stick to one or the other and if its slightly more expensive, we would fly our chosen carrier out of loyalty. But as thats gone they get mone in return.

 

[Bundy Bear]

I will go from Gold likely to silver, but with the changes in the American Express credit card I get lounge added so I won't need to do quiet so much flying.

Having just a bit of status can help.

 

[SYD]

I will go from Gold likely to silver, but with the changes in the American Express credit card I get lounge added so I won't need to do quiet so much flying.

Having just a bit of status can help.

TBH, for the average domestic only flyer just buying VA lounge membership and optional Economy X or Preferred seating (as required) will give much the same benefit as Gold for a fraction of the cost…

Quite different over the road where OWS (and up) has tangible benefits around the world, as well as at home.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just the comments in the podcast

Is QR not a partner airline also?

What I heard on the podcast, and in the changes anyway was, inter alia, "Spend money flying Virgin, not partners and we'll give you status." The Velocity program applies to VA's proposed (not finally approved) new flights, so flying the VA flights will get you status quicker, as its just $ spend now. Seems to me VA's proposed expansion and Velocity are perfectly aligned.

QR is a partner and hopefully will be a stronger partner and maybe (hopefully) the earning on QR coded flights may be brought up to flying VA coded levels. Differential earning on various partners wouldn't be a new concept. If not, well, if we want to earn towards Velocity status we'll just have to take those VA coded flights to Doha, not the QR ones.

 

[andye]

Frequent flyer schemes have been astonishingly successful for airlines

For most of this time they have not been tied directly to revenue. When they are, they effectively become discount schemes and remove gamification/arbitrage

Its a pity as thats the bit I like though i appreciate the bean-counters find the revenue model easier to get their head around.

In my case, I have definitely made incremental spend for benefits which I perceive to be useful. I guess VA will see how much psychology interacts with simple maths

 

[justinbrett]

What I heard on the podcast, and in the changes anyway was, inter alia, "Spend money flying Virgin, not partners and we'll give you status." The Velocity program applies to VA's proposed (not finally approved) new flights, so flying the VA flights will get you status quicker, as its just $ spend now. Seems to me VA's proposed expansion and Velocity are perfectly aligned.

QR is a partner and hopefully will be a stronger partner and maybe (hopefully) the earning on QR coded flights may be brought up to flying VA coded levels. Differential earning on various partners wouldn't be a new concept. If not, well, if we want to earn towards Velocity status we'll just have to take those VA coded flights to Doha, not the QR ones.

Maybe listen to it again.

Particularly the bit “How do we make the Sydney Melbourne flying experience really really great, so that’s where we are focused on” (17th minute).

I don’t think there will be a single difference between flying the VA wet lease to DOH vs flying the VA codeshare on QR proper.

So why should the VA codeshare to SFO, HND or AKL be any different? Europe is only part of the international travel market - look at QF, far more services are going to the Americas, Asia and NZ than they are to Europe and Africa.

 

[Harrison_133]

What I heard on the podcast, and in the changes anyway was, inter alia, "Spend money flying Virgin, not partners and we'll give you status." The Velocity program applies to VA's proposed (not finally approved) new flights, so flying the VA flights will get you status quicker, as its just $ spend now.

I certainly don't disagree with you about wanting to reward those who fly Virgin more, but I find it a little incongruous for them to be disincentivising travel on their partner airlines given their whole international network 'strategy' since post-administration has hinged on said partner airlines. They've spent the last few years hyping up this international network of partner airlines and Jayne herself has been in the media many times spruiking this quasi-international network. I feel there is a bit of disconnect between Virgin and Velocity on this point.

It's clear something needed to give, and I'm glad they're trying to thin the herd, but I do think some of the changes are a bit extreme or need to be rethought.

 

[RooFlyer]

Maybe listen to it again.
Particularly the bit “How do we make the Sydney Melbourne flying experience really really great, so that’s where we are focused on” (17th minute).

No, I don't need to listen again, thanks, because I listened in its entirety AND have read more about it around the traps .

Rightly so re domestic, that's where their client/revenue base is. But that's nothing to do with Velocity "walking away from international pax", which was your contention that I was addressing. Velocity will service the new international routes (at least VA coded) just the same as it will SYD-MEL. A dollar is a dollar which is how the new system will work.

I don’t think there will be a single difference between flying the VA wet lease to DOH vs flying the VA codeshare on QR proper.

You mean VFF earning? You'd have to be correct. But I actually wrote about earning on VA coded flights to DOH Vs QR coded. Could go either way - less earn on QR codes to be consistent or same earn because they are buddies and co-investors now.

So why should the VA codeshare to SFO, HND or AKL be any different? Europe is only part of the international travel market - look at QF, far more services are going to the Americas, Asia and NZ than they are to Europe and Africa.

What? You may have heard of the proposed, and interim-approved tie-up/investment/co-ordination between VA and QR - that could be considered a difference! The only relevance I can see in QF here is historic differential partner earn wrt QR.

 

[drron]

You can still earn status on SQ and SQ to the USA can be a good deal.
We often fly BNE-SIN-BKK and return. Sometimes we run out of points and have to buy a fare. So after the changes we would get 150 SCs each way on SQ tickets down from 180 at present. On VA codeshare it is still 180. But for our flight next October the SQ fare BKK-BNE was $A1600 cheaper than the VA codeshare. Not a problem for me.
All our award Flights to and from BKK in the next 10 months have been done with VA points. Just no awards on either VA or SQ early October -school holidays.

 

[33kft]

In what markets is VA equally priced to JQ?

So VA is not BFOD on any domestic leisure routes whatsoever?

I don't have a way of pulling the data to respond to your query, but following your theory, JQ either offers the lowest cost fares across all leisure routes, or the point you make about BFOD pricing on leisure routes attracting undesirables applies to VA in some markets as well?

Or are you saying that undesirables are inherently attracted to JQ in a way that doesn't apply to VA where it is the cheapest carrier in a given market?

I genuinely don't follow how switching from VA to JQ means you deal with worse traveller behaviour because of cheaper fares when VA either are the cheapest in some markets or are just not the BFOD in any market in which case the other predominant advice in this thread (forget status, fly BFOD) would never apply to a VA fare?

 

[twinaisle]

And you think the VA Bali bogan bus is any better? Had a VA flight attendant mention that she practically cries when allocated to a DPS Flight because of the entitled drunken morons that frequent that flight.

To be honest if you cry because you see a DPS rostered then maybe it's not the right job.

 

[levelnine]

So VA is not BFOD on any domestic leisure routes whatsoever?

I don't have a way of pulling the data to respond to your query, but following your theory, JQ either offers the lowest cost fares across all leisure routes, or the point you make about BFOD pricing on leisure routes attracting undesirables applies to VA in some markets as well?

Or are you saying that undesirables are inherently attracted to JQ in a way that doesn't apply to VA where it is the cheapest carrier in a given market?

I genuinely don't follow how switching from VA to JQ means you deal with worse traveller behaviour because of cheaper fares when VA either are the cheapest in some markets or are just not the BFOD in any market in which case the other predominant advice in this thread (forget status, fly BFOD) would never apply to a VA fare?

Happy for you to point me to just a couple of leisure routes where VA is consistently BFOD.

This is the pretty much the typical pattern ime:

 

[justinbrett]

No, I don't need to listen again, thanks, because I listened in its entirety AND have read more about it around the traps .

Rightly so re domestic, that's where their client/revenue base is. But that's nothing to do with Velocity "walking away from international pax", which was your contention that I was addressing. Velocity will service the new international routes (at least VA coded) just the same as it will SYD-MEL. A dollar is a dollar which is how the new system will work.

Which was my point, they are focusing on domestic because that's where their customer base is, acknowledging that it may disappoint those who fly mostly internationally.

The QR services to DOH are just a small part of the international network and why should they be any different to UA flights to SFO or NZ to AKL. They're all partner airline flights.

Even when VA has the wet lease flights, I'd wager almost all pax will be connecting on QR codeshare services elsewhere. Working with partner airlines is the sole strategy for VA long haul. So while VA the airline tries hard to fill the gap with QF for long haul services, Velocity is completely blowing up the program for everyone except those booking on VA (albeit that's apparently only 15% of members).