Wilson European Vacation - 23 May to 9 July 2011

[ozbeachbabe]

Vous pourriez avoir besoin de comprendre plus de français de base afin d'avoir une visite utile. Sinon, vous pouvez juste se retrouver au regard fixe les caractéristiques lors de la tournée. Vous ne savez pas si ce serait la valeur de votre 18,50 euros. Mais, ce que vous pensez est le meilleur ...

:mrgreen:

I suggest Google Translate...

I think Anat0l just said "your hat is on your potato"!

 

[lovestotravel]

There go all my AA, Hilton & PC points [well almost 30K AA & Hilton points left]

Personally I'd be saving them

Given that our dollar is worth so much overseas at the moment, I'd be saving my points for when things even out again!

I am planning a trip to Hawaii for later this year, and while I could stay 5 nights free at a St Regis property, I'd rather be paying out of my own pocket now and save the points for when $1 AUD = 0.70USD again

But at the same time using points can be better than using cash, especially if you need to pay interest on a credit card. At 10-20% interest any savings in the current favorable exchange rate are dispersed with interest charges very fast!

 

[QF WP]

My strategy was always to save them for this type of trip and given most of our money is in our business, then it was the perfect use of the strategy as we have a budget for the trip. Airfares have cost $3K for 4 (mostly for my infant son at 10% of J fare), hotel points were used (where available) for most expensive nights which happened to be Paris (Hilton) and Bern (HI), thus our hotel accom only $5K (plus another $3K for 12 nights in Sarlat, France in a chalet). Add to that the car lease (25 days), spending money and passports (x5), it is certainly mounting.

I am now saving up my AA points again for my 45th birthday next year, where we plan to go to JFK (6 nights), SEA (5 nights), GEG (4 nights) and RNO (3 nights).

But firstly, have to sort out the car leasing. Have a conundrum that I will probably post about tonight.

 

[QF WP]

Okay, I wonder if someone can give me some answers.

We are looking to lease a car (rather than hire one) once we leave Prague on 4th June and drive it around to Bordeaux, France.

Looking at the leasing options:

Driveaway Holidays - Puegeot
Europeshoppe - Citroen, Renault

Driveaway doesn't have a pick up from Prague - although access from Munich is possible. Drop off at Bordeaux is perfect.

Europeshoppe's Renault is offline, so down to Citroen. Access from Munich is possible and drop off at Bordeaux. Good selection of cars.

I can't find one that will do a one way, from Czech Republic. Makes me think that a possible solution is to rent a car one way from Prague to Munich (or Eurail), then pick up the leased car.

What have the experienced European travellers here done?

 

[arraitch]

Lindsay, great (and envy-making) plan!

We leased a C5 for just over a month last May, with pickup in Barcelona and dropoff at CDG. It was a comfortable car for long motorway legs, but kinda cosy around French villages, with the GPS making an essential contribution to continuing matrimonial harmony. We were very happy with the arrangements made through Citroën Australia, for which see THE GRAND TOUR OF EUROPE - Car Hire in France or Europe - Citroën DriveEurope Australia. Receiving a discount for being Citroën owners sweetened the deal.

The tax-free leasing arrangements for new French vehicles do have a western European focus; are you locked into Prague, or are other pickup points (Zurich, Frankfurt) possibilities?

Either way, have a great time!

Arraitch

 

[grussellt]

We used Peugeot leasing in 2008 and booked an 807 via Driveaway. We picked up in Toulouse and dropped off in Bordeaux 5 weeks later. The vehicle was perfect (although small carriageways in Spanish villages were not made for it!). We had some damage to one side from a rock fall in the Gorge du Tarn but that caused no problems and was covered by insurance - no claim needed by us. It was particularly good to know that we were driving a new vehicle. You will need to pay extra for a pick up outside France. You may need to understand French pretty well on drop off as sometimes instructions are given in French over the phone as to where you should park!

 

[QF WP]

Thanks arraitch and grussellt, great information from you both and a comfort. Good to know others have done the same thing. I got referred to leasing by IainF as he has used it before.

Our plans take us from Prague to Nuremberg (2 nights), catching up with 2 friends who lives there, one from Flyertalk plus a friend of mine from a Contiki tour. Accom there is Best Flexible Rate, so whilst changeable doesn't fit in with changing plans.

I think we might just leave there early AM on the departure morning, as the next stop is Stuttgart (visiting places we haven't been before and somewhere we don't have anyone to visit). It's Adv Purchase, so not changeable but no need to get there too early on the arrival afternoon.

I'm thinking we get a hire car for the first 2.5 days drive from Prague to Nuremberg, then south to Munich (Airport) and switch cars, then west to Stuttgart. We've both done Munich multiple times, so not concerned about missing it on this trip

GPS is a must for both the hire car and leased car. We have both been doing refresher courses (I did German at school, my wife French), so with that knowledge and iTranslate on the iPhones, we should survive along with help from the locals.

Many thanks to both of you for your time and input. Really appreciate your assistance.


Sent from my iPhone using AFF Mobile

 

[docjames]

I presume it's the Hilton Arc de Triomphe?

We stayed there last June. Great hotel. Really well located, there's a small park nearby for a stroll (during the daytime) which gets you away from the hubub of Paris. Rooms reasonable size (for Paris) and well appointed. water pressure in shower is terrible, but my experience is that that is a Paris-thing combined with low flow shower heads. Good breakfast selection too, but plenty of cafe's in walking distance if you're over hotel breakfasts. Cant vouch for gym etc as didnt use. There's a nice exectuive lounge on the top floor which has basic drinks in the evenings and has a nice ambience (doesnt everywhere in Paris?) and a modest outlook from the top floor.

The lifts broke down whilst we were there, but fixed rapidly. Staff helpful (rare for Paris!) and most spoke English (greet them in French but they'll switch straight to english most of the time).

Happy to take other specific questions.

Enjoy!

 

[QF WP]

docjames, that's the one! Thanks for the comprehensive report - music to my ears as this was the most crucial (read - costly) hotel on the whole trip. I dare not mention to Mrs LW how much the room would have been had we paid for it

We are coming into Gard de Nord on the TVG from Bordeaux and that is really the only question I have at the moment - how best to get to the hotel from there. I expect a taxi is probably the best option for this type of short trip. That'll test Mrs LW and her French! I suppose by then, she'll be more confident given the 20 odd days of having to speak it.

 

[V1213]

I can't find one that will do a one way, from Czech Republic. Makes me think that a possible solution is to rent a car one way from Prague to Munich (or Eurail), then pick up the leased car.

What have the experienced European travellers here done?

Unfortunately the fastest public transport option between Prague and Nürnberg is a 3.5 hour bus ride. The shortest train connection is 4.5 hours, and from personal experience this is a very scenic, off the mainlines trip, however the timetable is limited.

Travel between Nürnberg and München or Stuttgart is very easy and comfortable with the fantastic ICE (InterCityExpress) trains running frequently, getting you there in no time. The problem I always seem to have is that my ICE trips are too short - I settle in, start enjoying some food and tap beer (Warsteiner is from the keg on ICE trains) and find that I could happily travel all day but must get off because my stop has already arrived!

All that said, you'll be travelling with small children so a car would provide convenience in terms of carrying the luggage and supplies. However space, movement, activities and relaxation are restricted in a car compared to the train.

We are coming into Gard de Nord on the TGV from Bordeaux and that is really the only question I have at the moment - how best to get to the hotel from there. I expect a taxi is probably the best option for this type of short trip. That'll test Mrs LW and her French! I suppose by then, she'll be more confident given the 20 odd days of having to speak it.

The best public transport option would be the Métro Line 2 from Barbès Rochechouart to Courcelles. If the short walk from Gare du Nord to Barbès Rochechouart isn't possible with 2 very young children and your luggage you can take Line 4 one stop from the Gare du Nord station to Barbès Rochechouart to connect to Line 4 from there. The hotel looks to be about a 2 minute walk from Courcelles Station. By this point in the trip you would presumably have a good grasp of what is possible with the kids and luggage and therefore whether to choose public transport or concede to a taxi.

 

[docjames]

We flew into CDG (DRW-BNE-MEL-HKG-LHR-CDG for me!), took the bus to the champs-elysee and then a cab from there (due to luggage - without luggage its <10 mins walk).

Yep, it's pricey, but probably worth it (comaprative to prices for other Paris hotels). We enjoyed our stay there (albeit too brief!).


Oh, and if you want a nearby restaurant for dinner (that's Frnech) but not one that's insanely pricey, the concierge have a few recomendations - the ones we went to that they'd reccomended (some we'd also been to previously) were fine - good balance of price vs cost. They'll also call and book for you if necessary.

 

[QF WP]

Unfortunately the fastest public transport option between Prague and Nürnberg is a 3.5 hour bus ride. The shortest train connection is 4.5 hours, and from personal experience this is a very scenic, off the mainlines trip, however the timetable is limited.

Travel between Nürnberg and München or Stuttgart is very easy and comfortable with the fantastic ICE (InterCityExpress) trains running frequently, getting you there in no time. The problem I always seem to have is that my ICE trips are too short - I settle in, start enjoying some food and tap beer (Warsteiner is from the keg on ICE trains) and find that I could happily travel all day but must get off because my stop has already arrived!

All that said, you'll be travelling with small children so a car would provide convenience in terms of carrying the luggage and supplies. However space, movement, activities and relaxation are restricted in a car compared to the train.

Wow, you seem to know the subject very well V1213, awesome information and you are spot on with the dilemma about kids - not that I am rapt with having to drive in countries where I don't know the language (well, Czech Replublic anyway), I'm on the wrong side of the road and most people will pass me (on the Autobahns in Germany). But little point to catching a train (time and expense) if we are at the wrong side of town from our hotel and have added time and expense to get there (and back).

The best public transport option would be the Métro Line 2 from Barbès Rochechouart to Courcelles. If the short walk from Gare du Nord to Barbès Rochechouart isn't possible with 2 very young children and your luggage you can take Line 4 one stop from the Gare du Nord station to Barbès Rochechouart to connect to Line 4 from there. The hotel looks to be about a 2 minute walk from Courcelles Station. By this point in the trip you would presumably have a good grasp of what is possible with the kids and luggage and therefore whether to choose public transport or concede to a taxi.

I so owe you a drink when next in Perth! Yes, by then I'm sure I'll have a fair idea whether my wife will want to do 2 changes of trains - I'll have had the experience in London previously.

 

[QF WP]

We flew into CDG (DRW-BNE-MEL-HKG-LHR-CDG for me!), took the bus to the champs-elysee and then a cab from there (due to luggage - without luggage its <10 mins walk).

Yep, it's pricey, but probably worth it (comaprative to prices for other Paris hotels). We enjoyed our stay there (albeit too brief!).

Oh, and if you want a nearby restaurant for dinner (that's Frnech) but not one that's insanely pricey, the concierge have a few recomendations - the ones we went to that they'd reccomended (some we'd also been to previously) were fine - good balance of price vs cost. They'll also call and book for you if necessary.

The joys of burning 170K HH points meant I breathed a sigh of relief at the cost. We'll certainly be using Concierges at most of our Hotels for their local knowledge of eating establishments.

 

[an*g-bne]

Our plans take us from Prague to Nuremberg (2 nights), catching up with 2 friends who lives there, one from Flyertalk plus a friend of mine from a Contiki tour. Accom there is Best Flexible Rate, so whilst changeable doesn't fit in with changing plans.

I think we might just leave there early AM on the departure morning, as the next stop is Stuttgart (visiting places we haven't been before and somewhere we don't have anyone to visit). It's Adv Purchase, so not changeable but no need to get there too early on the arrival afternoon.

I'm thinking we get a hire car for the first 2.5 days drive from Prague to Nuremberg, then south to Munich (Airport) and switch cars, then west to Stuttgart. We've both done Munich multiple times, so not concerned about missing it on this trip

Unfortunately, Prague and Nürnberg are not the easiest pair of cities to travel between if you don't have your own vehicle. I'm a semi-regular visitor to NUE, as Mrs AN*G has relatives there (she spends about a month each year over there typically). A few years back, when she had call to go to PRG, she ended up taking the ICE to MUC, and then flying MUC-PRG.

As V1213 points out, the train service from Prague to Nürnberg is a non-mainline train (Express Train) - but from experience, no where as comfortable or pleasant as an ICE or the Inter-City/Euro-City. For 5 hours though, it may not be too bad, and will allow some leg stretching. Looks like there's a snack bar on board.

The other option is to fly PRG-MUC, and pick up the lease car in MUC before driving to NUE, though at CZK 3070 per adult, it may get quite expensive quite fast.

No experience on hiring a car one way from PRG.

 

[V1213]

I so owe you a drink when next in Perth!

Haha, let me know when you're in town!

Always happy to help.
On that note, what are your TGV booking plans? Booking through a European website or locally is usually far cheaper than booking from an Australian reseller...

 

[ellen10]

We leased 2 Renault cars in 2009 and it was the best idea. Cars are great and the arrangements were easy. Dropped our car off at Bordeaux airport, so easy. We had a TomTom and it was a great investment, however we didn't use it for the meandering on local roads. Spent a week renting in Sarlat, fabulous.

You may find one way drop off fees expensive if you hire a car in Prague and drop off in Germany. Driveaway will give you a quote. Too bad you missed their earlybird discounts ... ended at the end of March.

With family and bags in toe I would just get a taxi from Gare du Nord. It won't cost much and well worth it. From our experience the taxi drivers in Paris will speak understand English well.

Great trip planned.

 

[drron]

I have given up worrying about not speaking the language.Never had a problem in Europe.In France I would walk into a restaurant and in my best French ask for a table for 2.The answer was always-"And an English menu for monsieur".

 

[docjames]

We hired a car in Stutgart for 3 days, then dropped off in Munich after 2 days. Piece of cake. The Autobarn Stuttgart --> Munich was fine - drive sensibly, dont be afraid of 130kph (you wont need to do more if you're not comfortable, and just stay in the inside lane or two) and give way to everyone. With the full clan Wilson, car will almost be easier (and probably cheaper) for munich --> stuggart than the train I would have thought. Although the train stations in both towns are centrally located, i drove the car into both "central" locations and it wasnt too bad. In true german fashion, all the (major) roads are marked. Just hire a car with sat nav to make life easier (or take your own).

 

[QF WP]

Unfortunately, Prague and Nürnberg are not the easiest pair of cities to travel between if you don't have your own vehicle. I'm a semi-regular visitor to NUE, as Mrs AN*G has relatives there (she spends about a month each year over there typically). A few years back, when she had call to go to PRG, she ended up taking the ICE to MUC, and then flying MUC-PRG.

As V1213 points out, the train service from Prague to Nürnberg is a non-mainline train (Express Train) - but from experience, no where as comfortable or pleasant as an ICE or the Inter-City/Euro-City. For 5 hours though, it may not be too bad, and will allow some leg stretching. Looks like there's a snack bar on board.

The other option is to fly PRG-MUC, and pick up the lease car in MUC before driving to NUE, though at CZK 3070 per adult, it may get quite expensive quite fast.

No experience on hiring a car one way from PRG.

An interesting additional option flying PRG/MUC, will have to look whether the costs (transport to airport + flights for 2 adults + 1 child + 1 infant) will be less than hiring car (Europcar looked like they do one ways, but haven't fully explored that option). Looks like some work to do tonight. It might be easier to drive MUC/NEU than PRG/NEU.

Positive is that we'd be picking up the lease car from MUC airport and no second car to worry about, the negative is that Mrs LW now advises she wants to visit Neuschwanstein Castle, which of course is south of MUC. We might cancel one night at Stuttgart (at least it's fully flex) and stay the night near Fussen.

On that note, what are your TGV booking plans? Booking through a European website or locally is usually far cheaper than booking from an Australian reseller...

Still haven't booked them yet. That's on the spreadsheet for after the cars.

We leased 2 Renault cars in 2009 and it was the best idea. Cars are great and the arrangements were easy. Dropped our car off at Bordeaux airport, so easy. We had a TomTom and it was a great investment, however we didn't use it for the meandering on local roads. Spent a week renting in Sarlat, fabulous.

You may find one way drop off fees expensive if you hire a car in Prague and drop off in Germany. Driveaway will give you a quote. Too bad you missed their earlybird discounts ... ended at the end of March.

Oh yes, I remember your excellent Fodors report - must go back and re-read it.

GPS is a must, so definitely will be addig it (along with 1 booster and 1 child seat) to leased car.

With family and bags in tow I would just get a taxi from Gare du Nord. It won't cost much and well worth it. From our experience the taxi drivers in Paris will speak understand English well. Great trip planned.

I think that Mrs LW will only want to do that. I know she doesn't want to change trains etc and the added cost is worth a happy wife, isn't it

I have given up worrying about not speaking the language. Never had a problem in Europe. In France I would walk into a restaurant and in my best French ask for a table for 2. The answer was always -"And an English menu for monsieur".

That's what I have my wife along for on this trip - French translation .

We hired a car in Stutgart for 3 days, then dropped off in Munich after 2 days. Piece of cake. The Autobarn Stuttgart --> Munich was fine - drive sensibly, dont be afraid of 130kph (you wont need to do more if you're not comfortable, and just stay in the inside lane or two) and give way to everyone. With the full clan Wilson, car will almost be easier (and probably cheaper) for munich --> stuggart than the train I would have thought. Although the train stations in both towns are centrally located, i drove the car into both "central" locations and it wasnt too bad. In true german fashion, all the (major) roads are marked. Just hire a car with sat nav to make life easier (or take your own).

Would I be allowed to drive anything but sensibly with such precious cargo on board ? That's about my speed limit for driving with te kids in the car, so I'll be comfortably in the inside lane, playing Wiggles Songs.

 

[medhead]

Having just done Munich to bamberg on the autobahn - right past nurnberg. I would suggest that the middle lane would be best. Inside lane seemed to be full of trucks travelling at about 100-110. We were mostly in the middle lane at 130 to 150. This was in a Seat people mover thing with winter tires. Interesting experience doing 130 and having a Smart fly past us.

Just on the nurnberg/Munich/fussen/stuttgart thing. Your ordering seems a bit out as you would be travelling back and forward a bit. I don't know enough about the trip to be definitive, but if you fly to Munich then I would suggest Fussen before nurnberg. The obvious problem is that you miss the 2 days of sightseeing between Prague and nurnberg.