Worse than feet on bulkheads

[Denali]

I thought the unwritten rule was the window seat person controls the shade, the poor centre person has both armrests, and the aisle person ins in position Alpha.

Thanks to Boeing and the 787, the FAs now control the shades

 

[nutwood]

I missed this thread earlier. Skimming through, I'm left with a question. I can see the point of many of the objections, and indeed agree with them. What's puzzling me is why does the title subject "feet on bulkheads" arose such ire? I'm somewhat vertically challenged so have not found myself in the position where I wish to rest my feet on a bulkhead, however I can see that persons with longer legs than I might well wish to relieve the pressure on their spine by resting their feet on the opposing vertical face. Why is this a problem? What function does the bulkhead perform that makes feet offensive?
Genuinely interested. I sometimes arrange matters in lounges so I can rest my feet on a convenient ledge. I'm wondering if there's an entire section of etiquette that has passed me by!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I missed this thread earlier. Skimming through, I'm left with a question. I can see the point of many of the objections, and indeed agree with them. What's puzzling me is why does the title subject "feet on bulkheads" arose such ire? I'm somewhat vertically challenged so have not found myself in the position where I wish to rest my feet on a bulkhead, however I can see that persons with longer legs than I might well wish to relieve the pressure on their spine by resting their feet on the opposing vertical face. Why is this a problem? What function does the bulkhead perform that makes feet offensive?
Genuinely interested. I sometimes arrange matters in lounges so I can rest my feet on a convenient ledge. I'm wondering if there's an entire section of etiquette that has passed me by!

Most people seem to base it on manners - that you wouldn't do it at their home or their friend's place, so why would you do it on a plane. They see it as disrespectful (to the airline) and unhygenic.

That being said - I'm in your camp. I really don't see the issue. The cabin crew don't own the plane and you don't eat off the bulkhead.

Most of the objectors say it's ok to put your feet on a seat (for example if you have a spare seat beside you or if you are in F or J). But you cannot put a foot on a bulkhead.

 

[nutwood]

Most people seem to base it on manners - that you wouldn't do it at their home of their friend's place, so why would you do it on a plane. They see it as disrespectful (to the airline) and unhygenic.

That being said - I'm in your camp. I really don't see the issue. The cabin crew don't own the plane and you don't eat off the bulkhead.

Most of the objectors say it's ok to put your feet on a seat (for example if you have a spare seat beside you or if you are in F or J). But you cannot put a foot on a bulkhead.

Thanks for that. Puts it in context. If my legs ever grow, I'll relax with an easy conscience.

 

[Denali]

Fist fight in Y. I hate boxing but that left at 20secs is impressive

Passenger Shaming

 

[Scott K]

Fist fight in Y. I hate boxing but that left at 20secs is impressive

Passenger Shaming

Oh that's going to make for an uncomfortable flight if they left both of those knobs on the plane. Hopefully they left them on sitting besides the gate.

 

[suze2000]

Oh darn, the video's been deleted.

Just got back from trip to England - most of which was in 787s. I really like the dimmable windows - so you can turn down the sun, but still see out, but I HATE that the FAs can do whatever the F they want with them and you have no recourse. Got on the flight at LHR at 9:30 am and the windows were blackened from about 4 hours into the flight until after the "breakfast" service before we landed at HND at 0630. I don't understand the need to keep the windows blackened when it is NIGHT outside?? I would like to see the stars and the land we are flying over, if possible, the pretty lights of the towns and cities.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Oh darn, the video's been deleted.

Just got back from trip to England - most of which was in 787s. I really like the dimmable windows - so you can turn down the sun, but still see out, but I HATE that the FAs can do whatever the F they want with them and you have no recourse. Got on the flight at LHR at 9:30 am and the windows were blackened from about 4 hours into the flight until after the "breakfast" service before we landed at HND at 0630. I don't understand the need to keep the windows blackened when it is NIGHT outside?? I would like to see the stars and the land we are flying over, if possible, the pretty lights of the towns and cities.

Next time just ask a crew member to 'unlock' your window so you can look out.

I guess there are a couple of things to consider... while your flight at this time of year might have been in total darkness, other flights on different routes - or in summer - might have periods of sun for much of the flight even if 'overnight' (depending how far north you are).

Some people forget to close their windows before going to sleep.

 

[suze2000]

I'll keep that unlocking thing in mind, thanks. I did also notice that when the FAs blacken them they are REALLY dark compared to when you darken them fully yourself.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I was an interested observer as a pax in the SIN lounge this evening put his feet up on one of the coffee tables.

Soon after a staff member walked over with a stool - the sort you’d use to get something off a high shelf - and said loud enough for those nearby to hear: “Perhaps your sore leg would be more comfortable on this. The other guests may also prefer it.”

Outstanding.

I should mention there was no indication of a sore leg - he didn’t limp to get his beer.

Within two minutes the feet were back on the table.

In other news:
Thongs observed tonight: 2.

 

[Pushka]

I was an interested observer as a pax in the SIN lounge this evening put his feet up on one of the coffee tables.

Soon after a staff member walked over with a stool - the sort you’d use to get something off a high shelf - and said loud enough for those nearby to hear: “Perhaps your sore leg would be more comfortable on this. The other guests may also prefer it.”

Outstanding.

I should mention there was no indication of a sore leg - he didn’t limp to get his beer.

Within two minutes the feet were back on the table.

In other news:
Thongs observed tonight: 2.

Maybe the next option is to hit him on the head with it. Clearly he’s too obtuse or doesn’t give a damn to take the hint. So it needs to be very direct. People can be such slobs.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Why is it that people who book an economy seat are surprised to travel in economy?



This is Mr DYKWIA who complained loudly about not getting his upgrade.

He then complained about the terrible leg room.

All while being handed a pre-departure glass of bubbly.

After that he put his feet up and was virtually ignored by the crew for the next eight hours.

Meantime, by being nice, I was well supplied with Shiraz from up the front.

 

[JohnK]

Walked in to a relatively full SYD VA lounge yesterday afternoon. There's a small table near reception available but only one chair. Notice that someone nearby has both legs on an extra chair. Found an extra chair and brought back to table and we sat down.

This person continued to have both legs on chair and lounge getting busier. Youngish. No signs of mobility issues. Saw a staff member getting coffee when I went to get a drink and a few minutes later the man was spoken to by supervisor and both feet on floor until they left to board.

I struggle to understand some people and their behaviour in public.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I struggle to understand some people and their behaviour in public.

Easier just to give up and not worry about it (Except for people who snore on planes and those who leave their window shades fully up on day flights. I struggle with their behaviour too!)

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Why is it that people who book an economy seat are surprised to travel in economy?

View attachment 151439

This is Mr DYKWIA who complained loudly about not getting his upgrade.

He then complained about the terrible leg room.

All while being handed a pre-departure glass of bubbly.

After that he put his feet up and was virtually ignored by the crew for the next eight hours.

Meantime, by being nice, I was well supplied with Shiraz from up the front.

In my deep-dive into the airline world - I've undercovered sobering truths

1) Seat manufacturers don't give a cough what passengers want. The few companies which manufacturer commercial airline seats are booked years in advance and have no need to innovate with new designs.
2) Few airlines have meaningful directional input into seat design, mainly because...
... 3) 99.9% of airline employees are NOT frequent flyers and seldom pay for revenue tickets. They don't LIVE and BREATHE the product.
4) Everything comes back to economics and financial folks at airline being conservative (risk associated with going against the grain)
5) The geeky frequent flyers (ie: on AFF) are rich in feedback but need airline perspective to extract what the real issues are in order to cut through the loyal brainwashed lens of loyalty.

An example of cutting through the noise to really understand the core issues - I spent an hour in airport lounges every day for over a year speaking with passengers about all sorts of issues.

The above photo highlights a HUGE disconnect between 'airline thinking/misconception of pax experience' and 'seat design'. The passenger in the photo has LESS legroom than most economy seats due to inability to put legs under a seat in front and sitting on the front of the seat which creates a semi-flat position that even 200cm+ people are able to achieve. The bulkhead appeal is NOT legroom - it's knee space.

But, knee space is only comfortable for ultrashort journeys. For taller folks, thigh muscles become ultra tired with a 180-degree flat seat cushion, and need to be elevated to relieve muscle fatigue, and thus - feet on bulkhead provides the relief. While simple - it took weeks of talking with pax to figure this out - reading between the lines on their complaints.

There is a seat manufacturer I tested recently with a revolutionary business class seat that can tilt your body back in the seat, thus creating incredibly comfortable space which has no stress on muscles.. Similar idea to the massively popular cocoon baby beds - https://www.earthmother.ie/user/products/large/cocoonababy2[4].jpg

Feet on bulkheads? It's more comfortable than most short-haul business class seats for tall people. Akin to an overweight person putting up the armrest to provide the extra comfort.

 

[JohnK]

Easier just to give up and not worry about it (Except for people who snore on planes and those who leave their window shades fully up on day flights. I struggle with their behaviour too!)

LOL. Apparently I snored quite loud on yesterday's flight.

But I couldn't leave that behaviour in the lounge alone without saying something.

 

[suze2000]

There is a seat manufacturer I tested recently with a revolutionary business class seat that can tilt your body back in the seat, thus creating incredibly comfortable space which has no stress on muscles.. Similar idea to the massively popular cocoon baby beds - https://www.earthmother.ie/user/products/large/cocoonababy2[4].jpg

You mean, like an old Qantas Cradle seat? IIRC ,they had them on BA as well (or is that the other way around?)

Apart from true lie flat seats ,this was by far my fave J seat. Got eight straight hours on a KLM flight in something very similar.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You mean, like an old Qantas Cradle seat? IIRC ,they had them on BA as well (or is that the other way around?)

Apart from true lie flat seats ,this was by far my fave J seat. Got eight straight hours on a KLM flight in something very similar.

yeah BA used to have them

It's a bit like the spin being used by the QF Sunraise project where designers are claiming they need to experiment with things never before seen on commerical aircraft. Me thinks they should just sign up to Pinterest... plenty of archive footage there of 'below decks' lounges, galleys and bars. Hardly 'revolutionary'.

 

[drron]

Amazing considerate behaviour.

 

[Quickstatus]

In my deep-dive into the airline world - I've undercovered sobering truths

1) Seat manufacturers don't give a **** what passengers want.

And the airlines try to con us by dropping names of industrial designers with names ending in C rather than K.

Seriously though I put some of the blame on airline journalists who are invariably invited by airlines to review their product. Generally the airlines gives them a press statement that the journalists rehash verbatim often without criticism.

The contrarian journalist (or are they really journalists) tends not to exist because they are usually not invited by the airline

For me the best J seat for sleep : surprisingly the QF Skybed II. Why?. Because you don’t have to put your legs into a tunnel. (Droop notwithstanding)

The worst leg tunnel: MH A330 Throne seats. When your knees go into the tunnel you cannot bend them and immediately you might as well be paraplegic if you want to roll onto side

The worst J seat: JL Skysuite

To the designers and “journalists”. You can’t build a seat which allows you to do everything. Everything is a compromise. The more “functionality” you build in, the more you compromise. That’s why the Skybed II is the best for me - because there is less to compromise.

I tried to explain to a colleague yesterday that Row 60 on the QF 747 is not an exit row but a bulkhead Row. Repeat bulkhead seats are not exit row seats. And Row 43 is not exit row either.
Bulkhead Row does not give more legroom repeat bulkhead rows do not give more legroom. There is slightly more knee room depending on airline and no one is reclining into your face. But there is less legroom - your legs can’t move!. That is why this thread exists - it is uncomfortable sitting for long periods with knees at 90 degrees. So, feet on bulkheads become common. Less legroom because you cannot stretch your feet out under the seat in front like those seated behind a bulkhead. And the seat is narrower.