Would you complain if Qantas took your 75K points after the 18 month expiry date?

[only4tehlulz]

I can understand that not everyone is used to frequent flyer schemes or travels often to not pay attention to "details" such as expiration points but would I bother / dare to complain so that my name makes it to an article in a Tabloid?

Hell NO!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If nothing else, the article reminds others in a similar position to check their accounts and the expiry dates.

2500 points would be a lot of points to most people. They'd assume they have to spend $2500 on a credit card (at the very least, some cards give less than 1c per $1 spend), or they'd need to spend $6000+ at Woollies.

Sure, they could buy one case of wine. But not everyone knows that.

Didn't points expiry used to be 36 months?

 

[offshore171]

For many loyalty schemes that I am enrolled in, points now never expire.

I don't have the details, but I remember reading something alone the lines that under our accounting standards for listed companies, there was some sort of accounting reason that the points must have a finite expiry.

Maybe someone can elaborate on the details.

I'm ok with an expiry due to complete inactivity, although I think 2 years would be fairer, and a more obvious reminder process.

As an example, Accor hotels points expire after 12 months of inactivity. I recently received an email from them with the following subject line:

Don't lose your Rewards points!


Body of the email then tells you when the points are due to expire and how you can keep them active.

 

[drron]

As many know mrsdrron lost all her Velocity points after the changes to expiry and pooling no longer being allowed to extend expiry date.She had kept emails and expiry was never mentioned.Thanks to intervention from AFFers she got her points back so she transferred them all to KF and has never used VA since.
I think the QF system where you can get the points back after a stipulated amount of new activity is much fairer.
I do think though that the notification of expiry should be much clearer.I received an email from Hhonors a few weeks ago headlined much the same as the Accor example posted above.Ironically it arrived as I checked in to a Hilton.

And it is all very well to be scathing of the individuals but in mrsdrron's case it was very much a secondary program.These don't get checked frequently especially by non-AFFers.
However the case in the OP was stupid as it says he was contacted and a reasonable offer to restore points was given.no sympathy for that fellow.

 

[opusman]

Didn't points expiry used to be 36 months?

Points used to never expire.

 

[flyingfan]

No I wouldn't complain. I'm in the camp of taking responsibility for your own actions rather than screaming that QF or any other 'loyalty' business has ripped you off.
Past stories have said the accountholders admitting they don't read email reminders or warnings because 'who has time to read those emails.' Well trim those emails in prefs and make it your responsibility to be aware. Expecting a phone call in a system with over 10 million users is unreasonable.

 

[Denali]

I wouldnt complain but I woiuld ask if there was any way I could have them restored.

For email notices, I know this is QF but I never, ever get VA emails for some reason. Triple checked everything, unticked, ticked ect and still dont get VA emails so it happens

 

[drron]

No I wouldn't complain. I'm in the camp of taking responsibility for your own actions rather than screaming that QF or any other 'loyalty' business has ripped you off.
Past stories have said the accountholders admitting they don't read email reminders or warnings because 'who has time to read those emails.' Well trim those emails in prefs and make it your responsibility to be aware. Expecting a phone call in a system with over 10 million users is unreasonable.

But haviny the expiry notice in the small print implies a wish on the part of the sender for those points to expire IMHO.A separate email with the expiry in the headline as done by many hotel programs should be compulsory.Again IMHO.

 

[flyingfan]

But haviny the expiry notice in the small print implies a wish on the part of the sender for those points to expire IMHO.A separate email with the expiry in the headline as done by many hotel programs should be compulsory.Again IMHO.

Agreed, when points expire the business wins by not having ongoing liability and you lose. What I was trying to say was I'd bet there'd still be rage and complaining even if a business sent bold, clear, can't miss it emails that said nothing but Your xx_ Points Are About To Expire.

EDIT: Also if you're not collecting points within 18 months then you're not really playing the loyalty game right. You can even literally earn points in your sleep now!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What I was trying to say was I'd bet there'd still be rage and complaining even if a business sent bold, clear, can't miss it emails that said nothing but Your xx_ Points Are About To Expire.

Be that as it may, i don't thinks that's justification to not send out enhanced, and frequent, emails warning about points expiry.

Has the airline done everything they can reasonably do to ensure points don't expire? Email notifications cost nothing, or next to nothing. Why not send them once a month? Sending them three months before gives people time to act, but it is also in the period where it's not necessarily an immediate 'call to action'. People may be tempted to 'put it aside' as it's still three months away.

 

[33kft]

To those who think QF sending an extra email will make the difference:

Look over a family member/friend's shoulder next time and check how many unread emails they have. For some people, it's a 6 digit number. Lately most of the whingers on QF's facebook page have been saying "why didn't I get a call? I think my 20K balance being reset should qualify for one". Little do they know that QF wouldn't call anyone less than a P1 for any reason and even that might be a stretch.

It's an issue of expectations. People can't manage the arithmetic of why a program with 12 million members can't give courtesy calls to tell them their points are due to expire. At an average of 1 million expiries a month and with 8 hours in the working day and a 30 day month, it would only take 4,000 calls per hour so I don't see the problem personally. In fact they should call a few times, because I'm a busy person and reminding me a month out is not good enough.

These are the same people asking what the point of status credits are when they get taken away every year, confusing double status credits and double points, spamming the qantas points hacks group with complaints about how they were not able to use their lounge invites for non QF lounges, getting upset because they are comparing two flights on completely different fare classes, booking non flex fares and complaining because they think their reason for rebooking should not incur fees, etc etc. If we adjust everything to suit the lowest common denominator, it will not be in our interests, and I tend to think of it as a lazy tax for those who coast through life without bothering to put in the effort to learn, understand and optimize available options.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Calling 12 million people is unreasonable. Sending out an email is not.

 

[33kft]

Calling 12 million people is unreasonable. Sending out an email is not.

Agreed, but it doesn't solve the problem. These people have not logged in, tracked, considered or interacted with their points balance for 18 months. The email is an excuse, not a solution. The next excuse will be the call, and if you take a moment to look at ongoing feedback, it's already what a large number of people are expecting. The issue is clear, the solution is not - extending expiry only benefits those who aren't interacting with the program, it could only be instituted if the breakage costs are either absorbed by shareholders (unlikely) or passed on to customers (assuredly).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree it's not a total solution. But that in itself shouldn't be a reason not to do it. You might alert 'x %' more people. For next to nothing.

 

[deebens]

It's hilarious, it's even more hilarious over at The Australian where they've written the same story because it's basically red meat for their Joyce hating readership.

Simultaneously, the consensus manages to be that Qantas points are utterly worthless and how dare a company expire those (worthless) points.

I'm surprised Virgin aren't doing better given most of News Corp's reader base are perpetually 'never flying Qantas again!'

 

[drron]

But if the email comes with a header-Your points are about to expire-most would probably not leave that email unread.I always scan the headers on my email list and many I would not look at.But the one from Hhonors saying you are about to loose your points I looked at straight away.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Does not the simplicity of a fabulous goodwill gesture like an email advising ‘Do not let your valuable Loyalty Points expire - ACT NOW’ ever enter the inner workings of these big Companies? I would kill for such a scenario

 

[offshore171]

EDIT: Also if you're not collecting points within 18 months then you're not reall

Fair observation. Ultimately, it’s a *frequent flyer* scheme.

It’s right there in the name.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

No these schemes are way past ‘Flying’ schemes - they are ‘Loyalty Schemes’ now - enrol and earn pts when you fly - when you use one of our Credit Cards - when you buy our wine - when you buy from our online store - when you shop at WW - when you input your FF number in 1,000 other scenarios - way past ‘Flying’

 

[offshore171]

No these schemes are way past ‘Flying’ schemes - they are ‘Loyalty Schemes’ now - enrol and earn pts when you fly - when you use one of our Credit Cards - when you buy our wine - when you buy from our online store - when you shop at WW - when you input your FF number in 1,000 other scenarios - way past ‘Flying’

So even under that definition, "loyalty" suggests a degree of regular repeat custom. Having no interactions whatsoever over 18 months is stretching that definition too.

As you say there's so many ways to keep the account active. To have zero interactions with the scheme over 18 months, doesn't really meet the definition of "frequent".

Maybe they should rename it the "Qantas Earn A Few Points Once Every Couple Of Years To Save Up For A Trip To The Goldie Scheme"