Ooh Tiger, you did it again and are grounded - fly below LSALT (lowest safe altitude)

[markis10]

Well it looks like another LCC has been busted twice for the same thing:

FOR the second time in a month, the federal aviation watchdog is investigating why a Tiger Airways jet flew below the minimum safe altitude. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau said it was looking into the descent of a Tiger Airways Airbus A320 into Avalon Airport, southwest of Melbourne, about 11am (AEST) yesterday.
The flight from Sydney was reported to have flown under the minimum altitude on approach.
On the evening of June 7, air traffic control reported another Tiger Airways A320 cleared to descend to 2500 feet (762m) near Melbourne Airport but it continued to a reported 2000 feet.
The lowest safe altitude for that leg of the approach was 2500 feet, the bureau said.

Read more: Second probe into Tiger Airways flight | News.com.au
​

 

[Nigelinoz]

Crikey is reporting that CASA have given the airline 60 days from mid June to complete instrument rating renewals for all of its pilots and pass them through proficiency check exercises in A320 flight simulators.
Tiger Airways Australia pilots being compulsorily retrained | Plane Talking
Cheers
N'oz

 

[Standby]

Crikey is reporting that CASA have given the airline 60 days from mid June to complete instrument rating renewals for all of its pilots and pass them through proficiency check exercises in A320 flight simulators.
Tiger Airways Australia pilots being compulsorily retrained | Plane Talking
Cheers
N'oz

Just not good enough.
You'd think internally there would have been very clear messages to crew given the scrutiny they are under. This appears almost a systematic failure.
20% lower than the proper approach should have registered somewhere on the flightdeck you'd hope
I'm sure there are some with experience can explain how this can happen

 

[yohy?!]

Seems a little unfair to me - was any action taken against QFlink after their multiple stick shaker incidents? Or JQ after their near smokin-hole-in-the-ground incident?

Just sayin

 

[Standby]

Seems a little unfair to me - was any action taken against QFlink after their multiple stick shaker incidents? Or JQ after their near smokin-hole-in-the-ground incident?

Just sayin

By no means am I saying errors arent made by all airlines crews, but a small airline (10 aircraft) already under investigation ,I'd imagine there would be a very strong focus from above within TT about attention to detail. 1 grounding from the show cause would kill the brand. The crikey article shows more than 1 serious proceedural error.
Forget JQ/QFlink a ceratin tail scrape at tulla by EK is the nearest thing to recent bad outcome. So errors occur at all levels in the airline foodchain but the risk to TT and their size makes it easier to be made an example of with the consequences

 

[yohy?!]

By no means am I saying errors arent made by all airlines crews, but a small airline (10 aircraft) already under investigation ,I'd imagine there would be a very strong focus from above within TT about attention to detail. 1 grounding from the show cause would kill the brand. The crikey article shows more than 1 serious proceedural error.
Forget JQ/QFlink a ceratin tail scrape at tulla by EK is the nearest thing to recent bad outcome. So errors occur at all levels in the airline foodchain but the risk to TT and their size makes it easier to be made an example of with the consequences

True indeed but as you say the EK incident was by and far the closest to a disaster so why is TT being pursued on this - I haven't heard of any action against Air Asia X after their multiple LSALT breaches at OOL last year?

Perhaps the QF lobbyists are striking again?

 

[Standby]

True indeed but as you say the EK incident was by and far the closest to a disaster so why is TT being pursued on this - I haven't heard of any action against Air Asia X after their multiple LSALT breaches at OOL last year?

Perhaps the QF lobbyists are striking again?

I'm not sure I get it..QF lobbyists are making TT do things which as a % of their total flight ops in a defined period whilst already under scrutiny are seem "higher" than you'd like??
For their size they continue to do things that draw regulator attention too often...they dont need QF of DJ (who would benefit most from their dissappearance) JQ or anyone else lobbying CASA, they seem to do a good job of saying "look at MOI" themselves.

 

[straitman]

True indeed but as you say the EK incident was by and far the closest to a disaster so why is TT being pursued on this - I haven't heard of any action against Air Asia X after their multiple LSALT breaches at OOL last year?

Perhaps the QF lobbyists are striking again?

I have no knowledge of where they are with the Air Asia X incidents but there is never (IMHO) an excuse for flying below LSALT.

 

[mannej]

Seems a little unfair to me - was any action taken against QFlink after their multiple stick shaker incidents? Or JQ after their near smokin-hole-in-the-ground incident?

Just sayin

Would you include TT for flying with an incorrectly maintained wing and not reporting it to CASA?

 

[yohy?!]

I'm not sure I get it..QF lobbyists are making TT do things which as a % of their total flight ops in a defined period whilst already under scrutiny are seem "higher" than you'd like??
For their size they continue to do things that draw regulator attention too often...they dont need QF of DJ (who would benefit most from their dissappearance) JQ or anyone else lobbying CASA, they seem to do a good job of saying "look at MOI" themselves.

I guess the point was QFlink, JQ and others have incidents which are as serious or more serious than these LSALT breaches yet no action is taken.

So why is TT being singled out.....a QF conspiracy I tells ya

 

[yohy?!]

Would you include TT for flying with an incorrectly maintained wing and not reporting it to CASA?

Why not, first I've heard of it but I guess my point was that it wasn't an incident that was seconds away from stalling or flying into the ground

 

[anat0l]

Could it be the ash cloud?

Hey, NZ and DJ were doing the same before...




Just kidding... *ribbing exercise*

 

[support]

Why not, first I've heard of it but I guess my point was that it wasn't an incident that was seconds away from stalling or flying into the ground

I beg to differ.

Flying below Lowest Safe Altitude certainly put one in the position to be flying into the ground.

 

[mannej]

Why not, first I've heard of it but I guess my point was that it wasn't an incident that was seconds away from stalling or flying into the ground

ATSB report finds Tiger Airbus flew for eight months with wing fault | Herald Sun
I don't think that I can agree with your comments. A Stick Shaker is a warning mechanism. Flying below Minimum Safe Altitude has been behind accidents before, so I don't get the its not a big deal reference?

 

[Danger]

The incident aside, what's with the "Both investigations were expected to be completed by mid-2012"? Seriously? Up to 12 months for this investigation? God forbid there be a significant (and I'm not downplaying the severity of this) aviation event in Australia. While I do not pretend to be an expert in any way, at this rate, the investigation of the ditching of a single engine toy plane with a couple of lego men on board could take years to investigate!

 

[thewinchester]

TT (Tiger Airways) grounded

This has literally come in within the last minute from CASA, published on twitter less than 90sec ago. Statement is as follows:

@CASABriefing: CASA has grounded Tiger Airways for immediate and serious safety reasons. More to come.

The fact that CASA is online at 3am AEST and posting this notice to me communicates the seriousness of the situation. I'll update this post with more information as it comes to hand.

I'm assuming this is linked to the LSAT incident and more, so this post is a reference only. Please keep all discussion in this thread.

 

[koonyaflyer]

Re: TT (Tiger Airways) grounded

Their website is now showing that flights are grounded until 9 July. In some ways this increases my confidence in CASA, but I do think that this is the chance to sort the Tiger mess out for once and for all .......I personally think they are a blight in the Australian aviation industry.

 

[AdMEL]

Re: TT (Tiger Airways) grounded

It appears CASA are a little slow to update twitter and their website - according to the TT website, they were grounded at 11pm AEST!

 

[rechoboam]

Re: TT (Tiger Airways) grounded

literally getting in the car for a jetstar flight, the airport should be fun today....imagine all the school holiday travellers...

 

[Sprucegoose]

Just heard it on the radio. Not on ABC yet.Serves them right. Cheapskates, underpaying pilots and not exactly getting the creme de la creme, maybe?