QF cough about cabin bags

[justinbrett]

How can you say that with such certainty? There's most certainly weight limits within the design of the overhead compartments. The idea of a hundred kilos arriving on your head at a couple of g is less than attractive.

I didn’t say there wasn’t a weight limit on the locker itself. But last I heard there isn’t an Australian variant of the 737 that has a lower locker weight limit to the ones that AA fly.

I don’t know what risk assessment AA did to allow unlimited, but as to whether it’s 7, 10 or 14Kg (the original question) I don’t think the locker limit will be exceeded.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

How can you say that with such certainty? There's most certainly weight limits within the design of the overhead compartments. The idea of a hundred kilos arriving on your head at a couple of g is less than attractive.

CASA’s guidance note is that airlines should take into account any increases in cabin baggage allowance and include that as part of the overall weight calculations for the aircraft. Fair enough! Get that.

It’s more the question here if the weight limits being imposed with pax being told it’s to achieve ‘on time performance’. Size+ specified dimensions… I get that. Bags fit in neatly, off we go.

It’s the weight component that doesn’t seem to add up in the ‘on time performance bit’. So the question was the why do airlines try to enforce weight… 7kg or 10kg does not seem safety related given BA/AA/DL/UA allow unlimited. Or if 7.1kg is not safe, why is another passenger on the same plane allowed 10kg?

If they just came out and said ‘sorry, it’s costing us money to carry all this weight around, and you guys haven’t paid for it in the ticket prices we charge’ that would be understandable!

 

[Hvr]

I don’t know what risk assessment AA did to allow unlimited,

They probably know how many guns the TSA fail to detect in testing and assume there will be more than a few guns airside so decided it's not worth the risk of weighing bags.

 

[jb747]

Interesting....I'm not even slightly interested in the tiny performance issues that you seem hung up on. What I'm thinking about is the accident loading of the locker and its contents. A 5g arrival will break the aircraft, but not the occupants, but I doubt that a loaded locker would withstand 5g without disgorging its contents. As for any AA assessment...I presume they simply consider those sitting under said lockers to be expendable.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Interesting....I'm not even slightly interested in the tiny performance issues that you seem hung up on. What I'm thinking about is the accident loading of the locker and its contents. A 5g arrival will break the aircraft, but not the occupants, but I doubt that a loaded locker would withstand 5g without disgorging its contents. As for any AA assessment...I presume they simply consider those sitting under said lockers to be expendable.

BA is 23kg max per piece. I’ve always assumed the actuaries have done their work and provided advice, and as a backstop, airline insurers are satisfied to cover it.

 

[1022]

I'm in favour of enforcing carry on size and weight limits. Boarding certainly seems more hectic and takes longer than it did 10 or 15 years ago. Australia is now definitely closer to the US-zoo end of the boarding spectrum than the Japanese-decorum-board-a-777-in-15-minutes end. But I think rather than a 2-week sting of enforcement on random flights that only pisses people off and results in men in suits having tanties at ground staff, they need to take a longer term, positive reinforcement view to changing consumer behaviour. If people know that their checked bag will be on the belt within 15 minutes of pulling up at the gate and that priority tagged bags will actually appear first, there may be less incentive to try to travel HLO. Obviously Qantas now has no ability to make such promises seeing as they have outsourced at Swissport who delight in rough handling luggage in front of a camera. Going to an all Airbus fleet with containerised luggage should in theory speed things up, but that still requires having enough staff on hand who actually give a rat's..

 

[RooFlyer]

But I think rather than a 2-week sting of enforcement on random flights that only pisses people off and results in men in suits having tanties at ground staff, they need to take a longer term, positive reinforcement view to changing consumer behaviour. If people know that their checked bag will be on the belt within 15 minutes of pulling up at the gate and that priority tagged bags will actually appear first, there may be less incentive to try to travel HLO. Obviously Qantas now has no ability to make such promises seeing as they have outsourced to the monkeys as Swissport who delight in rough handling luggage in front of a camera

I think that pretty much nails the argument.

 

[pauly7]

I don’t know what risk assessment AA did to allow unlimited, but as to whether it’s 7, 10 or 14Kg (the original question) I don’t think the locker limit will be exceeded.

Falling cabin baggage would bounce off the fat Americans perhaps?

 

[RichardMEL]

Sadly items like the video just released of the "QF" (swissport) checked baggage handlers only adds fuel to the people trying to bring theit kitchen sinks as carry on. sigh

 

[milehighclub]

Here are some the placarded weights for overhead lockers:

A319 have a limit of 43kg

A320 have a limit of 48kg but some older ones are 38kg

A380 have a limit of 53kg (for drop down pivot ones on main deck)

ATR have a limit of 40kg

787 have a limit of 50kg

 

[kangarooflyer88]

I can never understand people who fly Qantas but insist on not checking a bag. Like, hello Qantas gives you a free checked bag, why not use it? I know some will point to frequent travellers who know full well that carry-on baggage is the way to go since you save at a minimum 30 minutes of your life checking in a bag and waiting for a bag to appear on the other end to say nothing of the prospect of lost bags. But experienced travellers aren't the ones who screw up carry-on bags, it's the FoTSGs who expect a full sized suitcase will fit in carry-on space. Also, not withstanding the foregoing statement about experienced travellers not checking a bag, I still do because I can't figure out how security works at Australian airports. Back in North America I can chuck things through x-ray machines, aerosols and liquids, without having to take it out of the bag. Over here it's a big deal apparently and just the annoyance of being hassled at security over something which frankly shouldn't be an issue is why I bite the bullet and check the bag. I should also point out too that the "time-savings" of having a carry on bag is negated by the time spent waiting at the gate to ensure you board first to secure overhead bin space. Having a backpack you can chuck under your seat means you get to board last and maximize the time spent in the lounge.

-RooFlyer88

 

[justinbrett]

I can never understand people who fly Qantas but insist on not checking a bag. Like, hello Qantas gives you a free checked bag, why not use it? I know some will point to frequent travellers who know full well that carry-on baggage is the way to go since you save at a minimum 30 minutes of your life checking in a bag and waiting for a bag to appear on the other end to say nothing of the prospect of lost bags. But experienced travellers aren't the ones who screw up carry-on bags, it's the FoTSGs who expect a full sized suitcase will fit in carry-on space. Also, not withstanding the foregoing statement about experienced travellers not checking a bag, I still do because I can't figure out how security works at Australian airports. Back in North America I can chuck things through x-ray machines, aerosols and liquids, without having to take it out of the bag. Over here it's a big deal apparently and just the annoyance of being hassled at security over something which frankly shouldn't be an issue is why I bite the bullet and check the bag. I should also point out too that the "time-savings" of having a carry on bag is negated by the time spent waiting at the gate to ensure you board first to secure overhead bin space. Having a backpack you can chuck under your seat means you get to board last and maximize the time spent in the lounge.

-RooFlyer88

I’m with you most of the way but I will not allow your statement go unchallenged that North America security, particularly TSA, is less hassle than Australian domestic. Absolutely no way.

 

[travelislife]

The weight is an issue, the allowance is the allowance (OHS, weight limits in the lockers, etc). Over, you check it in, really quite simple.

But that’s the issue. Airlines trying have their cake and eat it too. Jetstar upsells people to 14kg of carry on. With 10kg in one bag. So the 7kg arbitrary limit and weight obviously isn’t a problem OH&S or locker wise if they openly sell it.

 

[Rich]

But that’s the issue. Airlines trying have their cake and eat it too. Jetstar upsells people to 14kg of carry on. With 10kg in one bag. So the 7kg arbitrary limit and weight obviously isn’t a problem OH&S or locker wise if they openly sell it.

In the end, in terms of this thread, it doesn't matter what the reason is. An airline has a limit and is within its rights to police it. Provided they are reasonable (eg let you remove your laptop before checking your bag in, or let you split the carry on in two if your are entitled to that) then it is fine and anyone who has doesn't like it can just suck it up.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In the end, in terms of this thread, it doesn't matter what the reason is. An airline has a limit and is within its rights to police it. Provided they are reasonable (eg let you remove your laptop before checking your bag in, or let you split the carry on in two if your are entitled to that) then it is fine and anyone who has doesn't like it can just suck it up.

No one is disputing that… but it comes down to compliance. Why aren’t people complying?

Maybe because airlines are trying to put too much spin on it, like ‘on time departures’ rather than ‘it’s costing us money’, or ‘it’s not what you paid for’.

For an on time departure it’s size and number of pieces that matter, not weight. I have never seen an airline weigh bags on board to see if they comply with bin load limits. And we suspect 23kg per person is likely not an issue if it’s being allowed by other airlines.

If people don’t understand or follow the logic of messaging it can be harder to get compliance.

 

[marki]

I agree; however, I have lost luggage on domestic ( delay > 24 hours) and have been compensated using insurance. Being a point-to-point delivery service. Both Qantas and Virgin have done it.

 

[RooFlyer]

Although I no longer fly Qantas, I used to, so:

I can never understand people who fly Qantas but insist on not checking a bag. Like, hello Qantas gives you a free checked bag, why not use it?

Because often its not needed. God invented carry-on for a reason, and if that's all you need, then then you use the amenity provided. A 'free checked bag' isn't such a novelty in Oz.

But experienced travellers aren't the ones who screw up carry-on bags, it's the FoTSGs who expect a full sized suitcase will fit in carry-on space.

If its not experienced travellers screwing up carry-on bags, then most of us here are OK, I guess

Also, not withstanding the foregoing statement about experienced travellers not checking a bag, I still do because I can't figure out how security works at Australian airports. Back in North America I can chuck things through x-ray machines, aerosols and liquids, without having to take it out of the bag. Over here it's a big deal apparently and just the annoyance of being hassled at security over something which frankly shouldn't be an issue is why I bite the bullet and check the bag.

I do admit with the introduction of full body scanners in some airports over the past couple of years, it has been a bit of a re-learning curve, and you do have the outliers like ADL which seem to make it up as they go along, but most of the time we get by. Its not as though scanning lanes are empty when you arrive, so if unsure, just do what the people in font are doing, or what the agents are saying.

That said, I guess if you always put everything in your checked bag, you'll never going to learn the carry-on rules here .

I should also point out too that the "time-savings" of having a carry on bag is negated by the time spent waiting at the gate to ensure you board first to secure overhead bin space. Having a backpack you can chuck under your seat means you get to board last and maximize the time spent in the lounge.

I'd venture to ay most people have their noses in their phones or are chatting to their traveling companion in the lounge (for the most part, the food and drink aren't worth dallying around for in Oz domestic lounges), and phone and chat can be done equally at the gate. Yes, I'm one of those who are at the gate early to ensure I can get an overhead bin right above my seat. But that's a choice I make and I'm fine with it.

But the 'time saving' in going HLO isn't on boarding, its leaving the airport (and the ever-present risk of lost bags). With bag arrival times out to 30 mins even for domestic, and God-knows-how-long for international (and real risk of rummaging at least on those), that's the over-riding and main reason I go out of my way not to check a bag if I can avoid it. At places like HBA, a delay out of the terminal means the available Ubers and Taxis have been snapped up, so its an even longer wait. Or in bigger cities, its a 30 mins buffer for traffic to get to a meeting, or 30 mins you get to your hotel earlier. I'm retired, but 30 mins is till valuable to me - I'd rather be doing almost anything rather than hanging around a carousel waiting to see if my bag appears.

 

[MARTINE]

Around the world in 118 days: one airline passenger’s $3,000 battle to retrieve lost luggage

When Marko Bogicevic and Dani Meyerowitz flew from Australia to France, their bags failed to arrive with them. That was only the beginning of a four-month saga

www.theguardian.com

Maybe this is why people dont check luggage.

 

[Rich]

No one is disputing that

Some are. One will never fly QF again (allegedly) because they were told to remove some items and told again after putting them back in the carry on.

too much spin

Agree. I hate corporate spin. But..see below

. I have never seen an airline weigh bags on board to see if they comply with bin load limits.

Nor have I, but it is not the job of cabin staff. It should be sorted before boarding .

For an on time departure it’s size and number of pieces that matter, not weight.

By having a 7 or 10kg limit people will check in bags. It will have effect of reducing the number of large bags and should speed up boarding. If I am travelling for more than one night, I will check in my bag and board with a small backpack or laptop case at most. I will even check on a carry on in preference to lugging it around.

 

[marks]

Maybe this is why people dont check luggage.

And why apple keeps selling out of airtags....