10,000 bonus points per 20 transactions

[serfty]

I was already a high transactor with Amex (I like the 1½points per $) and my monthly spend has not really altered. I have, however been buying things in little bits. Doing shopping daily rather than weekly. The promotion had not earned for us over 100K MR points and the month is not over yet ...

BTW - Congrats Simon on post "#4000":

Today, 08:17 AM ... #4000 (permalink)

 

[simongr]

That is really really depressing...

 

[Mal]

Some people have started to complain to Amex now that the 6-10 weeks since points last posted has passed.

I'm in that boat... can't decide what to do - chase up Amex/leave things lie for the moment etc.

 

[vet]

Baldman,

Amex staff offered the promo on its website (somewhere) to invitees and to inivitees over the phone who couldn't find the deal on the site. And to the public on the phone (eg I rang about a lost card - which Amex's mail room lost - and was given the spiel about joining up to ff plans for $80), and on its website. I'm peeved they're blaming the public for relying on their offer.

As for 'mis-use', FOS' officer (and other agencies) were informed that reps were saying to enrollers that the deal was stupid because people could buy apples 1 at a time or pay off Telstra at $1.50 a time (or whatever). (I want to see memos to reps).

Then Amex did not email or snail mail any corrections. Instead they inferred their computer was just down due to 'operational problems'.

A Vice President reputedly went on a site saying there was 'abuse'. But there was no letter on their homepage or to enrollers. Rather, they just invoked purported 'rights', sat back and watched the merchant fees roll in. Imo there are issues to be explore such as acting unconscionably, unfairly, with positive misreps and misreps by ommissions, conduct likely to mislead, etc (hereinafter collectively and severally referred to as "Bacon Saving" or "BS").

has, in writing, apologised for 'operational problems

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Just to confirm, my original "abuse" letter was exactly like this and it would seem this is the "generic abuse letter" that gets sent when some sort of threshold is reached.

At a guess, they are particularly interested in anyone with an overall very high volume of transactions. But my advice if you received this is to put the list of your MR transactions into a spreadsheet (if you haven't already) and sort by merchant name. For me, it was fairly obvious which ones would have looked suspicious once I did this exercise. It was then a matter of explaining those particular transactions with some supporting tax invoices.

While I am a very high transactor, I have been very careful to keep good records and to avoid doing anything I don't feel comfortable substantiating to AMEX or a reasonable third party (ombudsman or such).

Thank you.

Yes I have been a very high transactor which I feel is the real reason that Amex sent me the letter).

I have however been careful not to bill split...and in particular have no activity of a bill split into dozens of small tx.

The only thing approaching this is that I have shopped at David Jones several times a week at David Jones since the promo started and have say 3-6 tx each time as you pay there at seperate departments. ie these are genuine multiple tx....and indeed there is no way for example that I can pay for my coffee (ist floor)with say my CD purchase (3rd floor).

I have one repeat tx per month were I have a club membership for myself and a daughter (and it is billed as two tx on the same day for different amounts, but the same amounts each month)...but this is deducted every month and started in Dec 2007!!

I don't mind amex querying in itself...but they should actually state which tx they are "interested " in.

 

[js]

I have one repeat tx per month were I have a club membership for myself and a daughter (and it is billed as two tx on the same day for different amounts, but the same amounts each month)...but this is deducted every month and started in Dec 2007!!

I don't mind amex querying in itself...but they should actually state which tx they are "interested " in.

Odd that you would get the abuse letter in those circumstances, I would have thought. Presumably then you will have no problem justifying these. I would suggest you do the spreadsheet exercise just to be sure there's not something else there you've forgotten about that might have raised an eyebrow.

I think I can understand why AMEX would be reluctant to say exactly which transactions they think look abusive. It is much the same as why they have not clarified exactly what an "everyday" transaction might be other than in fairly vague terms (coffee, cinema ticket, weekly groceries). Once there are known specific "ok" and "abusive" goalposts it makes it a little too tempting for people to rort the "ok" ones to the extreme.

Hypotehtical: if AMEX had stated outright that 3 transactions a day at Woolworths was acceptable, but any more than that would trigger abuse, I for one would have been quite happy to do *exactly* three - each and every day.

 

[NSWhere]

If (when) I get this type of letter I will be replying in writing (and registered post) within 24 hours explaining that it's ridiculous to expect anyone to justify each and every transactions made in three months and that within the next three weeks I expect either: 1) Formal notification of the transactions they find suspicious or, 2) An written apology.

I will also be going straight to the BFSO, I suggest those who haven't already should do so as soon as possible next time Amex tries something dodgy on them. Even though they will suggest you wait a few weeks (if you haven't already) it will bring the issue to their attention. The more who complain to the BFSO about this letter the more likely it is to be considered a systemic problem and the more likely it is to be ruled against.

This reminds me of when Citibank asked their cardholders to disclose what they spend their cash withdrawals on. As others have mentioned, I think fear is motivating them to push the legal envelope in the hope that people will just bend over and take it.

 

[simongr]

Data point.

Before the 9 or 10T post from yesterday I am at 60T for the month with 30K of bonuses paid andthus 30K of bonuses unpaid for the month.

Amex's current liability to me is 161K :shock:

At this point we have done virtually no Xmas shopping :shock:

Also my average $ per T is still hovering around $80

My total earning under this promo is running at 285K :shock:

 

[vet]

Its on Amex to establish their case. They've written 'we carefully considered everything ....' so ask them to hand over everything. Let them make their case. If they can't, the BFSO should tell them to fork up.

"I think I can understand why AMEX would be reluctant to say exactly which transactions they think look abusive. It is much the same as why they have not clarified exactly what an "everyday" transaction might be other than in fairly vague terms (coffee, cinema ticket, weekly groceries)"

BFSO got complaints about Amex staffers saying what was ok - THEN Amex changed its mind and invented the 'public get nothing' letter. There are too many cases where people in Amex' shoes were stuck by a badly drafted deal. I think Amex dig itself deeper by not immediately writing to everyone with at least a list of prohibited things. Hey - Luisa only mentioned multi enrollers on some site rather thsn a) communicating with everyone via email or mail or b) putting things on the homepage, or c) saying you can't buy tic tacs singly or whatever. Transactions are transactions, imo.

 

[QF WP]

Month      Transactions      Points Credited      Points Owed 
September^      23               10,000                   0+
October         70               10,000              25,000~
November       102                    0              50,000
December#       80                    0              40,000

^ from date of registration (18/9)
# up to and including 18/12, with 2 transactions missing from 17th, 3 transactions to post from yesterday (plus additional ones from wife) and 2 already from today. Goal is 150, so I'm back on target [That would make an overall target of 155K bonus points]
+ Points owed were 5,000 but paid on 10/12
~ Points owed were 35,000 but 10,000 paid on 10/12

What is strange is that one of my regular places for transactions (a cafe) - it's transactions (4) haven't posted for either of the past 2 days, yet it has previously posted every day religiously. Neither has a Red Rooster (lunch) for yesterday which is also unusual.

Like simongr, I haven't even done my Xmas shopping yet, so this weekend should be a ripper .

The end probably can't come soon enough for Amex, who continually outdo themselves with their letters to members. What are they smoking . They should be advising what they consider to be questionnable transactions - I'm sure you all have perfectly valid reasons. Getting BFSO involved will only dig Amex into a deeper hole .

A higher being may need to help me this weekend as one retailer (Myer) this weekend should be getting between 5 and 10 transactions from me on Sunday. Like most others here who shop there, it'll be transactions on each floor, so I don't expect a letter Amex.

 

[vet]

I think fear is motivating them to push the legal envelope

What'll be in the envelopes handed out at the Amex Xmas Party?

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Odd that you would get the abuse letter in those circumstances, I would have thought. Presumably then you will have no problem justifying these. I would suggest you do the spreadsheet exercise just to be sure there's not something else there you've forgotten about that might have raised an eyebrow. .

Yes I had already done that a while back to keep a record of my tx...and yes IMO I can justify all my spend.

I have reasons for all my spend.

The only example that I can come up is my Movember Donations where I made a number of donations over the month. . All to different people....and so is not bill splitting. The most in one day was 5. But that only happened twice.

However the site just lists them the same.

If this was the trigger and the letter was dated early Dec...then anyone being generous to charities watch out.

Apart from that there are just lots of genuine tx. Most from shops and little on-line.

Any bill has no more than monthly payments. So no bill splitting.

I think I can understand why AMEX would be reluctant to say exactly which transactions they think look abusive. It is much the same as why they have not clarified exactly what an "everyday" transaction might be other than in fairly vague terms (coffee, cinema ticket, weekly groceries). Once there are known specific "ok" and "abusive" goalposts it makes it a little too tempting for people to rort the "ok" ones to the extreme..

Perhaps...but that is only due to their mistake in not having proper T&C.

I mean if they cannot define in a public way clear rules...then they are the ones that should bare the consequences.

And in this case the instruction was no minimum spend and no limit to the bonuses one can earn. That to me clearly implies an invitation to spend many times and to not be worried about making minor purchases.

Hypotehtical: if AMEX had stated outright that 3 transactions a day at Woolworths was acceptable, but any more than that would trigger abuse, I for one would have been quite happy to do *exactly* three - each and every day.

Again that is sloppy T&C on Amexes part.... hypothetically one can actually justify more than that.

ie if you were near one you might grab something for breakfast, morning tea, lunch, and then something for dinner..plus if they have a liquor department some alcahol.

If Amex wanted to disallow certain spend...then they should have provided further quidelines.

the quidelines they did provide was no min spend...and no limit to bonuses.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

should be getting between 5 and 10 transactions from me on Sunday. Like most others here who shop there, it'll be transactions on each floor, so I don't expect a letter Amex.

Well I have done no worse than that (though DJ's rather than Myers in my case and certainly never 10 in a day)....but I have an abuse letter...so who knows what you may be sent?

 

[Mal]

ie if you were near one you might grab something for breakfast, morning tea, lunch, and then something for dinner..plus if they have a liquor department some alcahol.

Even one legitimate shop at Woolies (or Coles) could theoretically end up with three transactions.

Groceries. Ciggies from the front desk. Alcohol from the liquor shop.

 

[Zippy7]

It appears that amex are playing silly games again.

The "abuse" letter is dated early december, but is received in H2 december (most peeps received it halfway through this week). Note that there is no name associated to the letter, just an anonymous wiggly line. YET another letter, written by someone with a name, dated almost a week LATER, arrived in the mail BEFORE this "abuse" letter.

Blame Aussie Post? I'd say its very unlikely to be them. Printed and waited a long time for anonymous person to scribble on before sending out? possibly... but I think it's more likely the cow did jump over the moon, and they back dated the letter.

I'm normally a pretty reasonable guy, but this has turned out to be so annoying and frustrating - they have allegedly carefully considered things, yet are unable to provide me with such details by telephone (its not the poor CSRs fault, its someone else blocking the details!). It just makes me angry at times :evil: :evil:

Will I tear up my Amex card? No, not at all. Since will I have to go to FOS to enforce my entitlement (and to clear up this slur/insult of alleged abuse). They currently look on track to win the "Worst sour taste of 2008" award.

 

[Zippy7]

I mean if they cannot define in a public way clear rules...then they are the ones that should bare the consequences.

And in this case the instruction was no minimum spend and no limit to the bonuses one can earn. That to me clearly implies an invitation to spend many times and to not be worried about making minor purchases.

Absolutely - I totally agree here.

"everyday" - not "one day", or "some days", or "once a day only", or whatever suits amex.

Of course, "everyday" could mean something different in "america" than "australia". And johnny howard sold out our rights to our own laws with that lopsided "free trade agreement"...:evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[anat0l]

An unusual transaction record for a day? Try this (and this doesn't qualify for an award - many here have done much better):

In the morning, I go to Woolworths to grab a morning drink of flavoured water. Grab that, put it on the Amex (after the usual line in the morning), get out.

Drop by Darrell Lea's and reason that my first choice of present wasn't so wise (hard to pack and send in the mail, as well as more expensive than my now thought up plan B). So back to Woolworths to grab some great chocolates on special. Chuck that on the Amex (after enduring the line again), get out.

Upstairs to Big W, grab some craft materials for the gift boxes. Put those on the Amex, then off to uni.

Go to Aus Post UQ, grab four mailer gift boxes. Paid with Amex.

Pack the gift boxes with decorations and chocolate, add addresses, then back to the post office. Pay the postage with the Amex.

After work, meet up with a friend and share some good times over a pizza after finally ascertaining from the management of the restaurant that yes they do accept Amex and yes they can do that without surcharge or minimum amount.

Following the meet-up, drop by Coles Myer Centre for afternoon drink of flavoured water. Amex transaction again.

Next, get a call from home to bring back some party snacks. Head to Coles Queen's Plaza, grab some French mini-toasts, but can't find any chilli Philly. Decide to gamble on Woolworths possibly having it, so I leave with just the mini-toasts on the Amex.

Off to Woolworths, no chilli Philly there either. So a tub of pate it is, coupled with a cheesecake. Another Amex transaction.

Add to that two QF carbon offset transactions today....

It might have been more, except that the restaurant we went for the centre lunch was "one bill per table" only (boss used his card), and The Regatta has a $25 minimum for credit/EFTPOS transactions (and everyone bought their own - we didn't share a bottle as such).

 

[vet]

It appears that amex are playing silly games again.

The "abuse" letter is dated early december, but is received in H2 december (most peeps received it halfway through this week). ...Printed and waited a long time for anonymous person to scribble on before sending out? possibly... but I think it's more likely the cow did jump over the moon, and they back dated the letter.

Keep the envelopes for the post-marked date. Amex might owe people (even if it can prove its allegations) until the date the letter was received.

 

[beardoc]

Even one legitimate shop at Woolies (or Coles) could theoretically end up with three transactions.

Groceries. Ciggies from the front desk. Alcohol from the liquor shop.

It can ever be more than that. Woolworths Town Hall (Sydney) has specific counters for bakery items, etc.

 

[simongr]

What a morning - 5T before 9:30AM

And still no Xmas shopping...