10,000 bonus points per 20 transactions

[oz_mark]

He mentioned V though, maybe he means on a different carrier to QF?

V Australia use the Any Seat, Any Time model of its parent, but doesn't (AFAIK) fly the routes mentioned.

 

[Flashback]

V Australia use the Any Seat, Any Time model of its parent, but doesn't (AFAIK) fly the routes mentioned.

That was my thoughts also.......

 

[aussiejohn]

Apropro of nothing in particular, I was meditating over the weekend on the frequent discussion in this forum about the cost of this promotion to Amex due to their bungling. It lead me to wonder just what the cost will be and if in reality, it will be significant.

I was thinking that MR points sitting in an account have no value to Amex at that point in time. They only have value when you convert them to QFF points or a voucher or whatever. Also I suspect a lot of points just never get redeemed. However, although I am not an accountant, I realise that there would have to be an accounting somewhere for a contingent liability some time in the future.

I think also there has been speculation about just what an MR point is worth and if memory serves me correctly, that value is almost miniscule. I also suspect Amex would buy the QFF and other airline points for redemptions at a bargain basement price due to the quantities involved. Sure many members have racked up hundreds of thousands of points but I am not convinced this will result in significant extra costs for Amex.

There is also the notion that the massive increase in transactions will result in a corresponding increase in fee income. So I am not entirely convinced this will be the disaster we first thought. We will never know of course. Hopefully someone will write a book about it all one day!

But on another tack, if this does all end in tears and Amex has to front Court over its actions, then the costs could well be significant.

This is just me sitting at my desk pondering over this and I have no inside knowledge about anything so feel free to tear my theory to bits - nicely if possible!

Have a great Christmas while you nervously wait for those elusive bonus (or bonii) points to post.

John in Melbourne

 

[serfty]

He mentioned V though, maybe he means on a different carrier to QF?

Very few carriers travel between Oz and HNL these days; and V is not (nor has announced they will be) one of them.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

V Australia use the Any Seat, Any Time model of its parent,

Appears to offer both:
Velocity - V Australia

but doesn't (AFAIK) fly the routes mentioned.

that's what I thought. Maybe the is a V Australia code share?

 

[simongr]

Re: end of january

:shock::shock:

I'm told by the 2nd in command that all my Oct, Novembre & December points for quite a few flights on the 5/5 deal are only a month away. Maybe it'll take 30 days to count them by hand

Points for flights? Am I missing something?

A further data point - the weekend's Ts posted today and now Amex's liability is 171K - subject to whatever damage mrssimongr has done shopping today...

In fact there is at least one missing T so the liability is 176K :shock:

 

[oz_mark]

Re: end of january

Points for flights? Am I missing something?

I think the points from 5/5 are going to be put towards flights.

 

[vet]

Just back from Xmas shopping Sorry my post was rushed.

I meant flying on Velocity's Hawaiian Airline which flies Syd-HNL-Sacramento.

On my quick reckoning I have about 5 flights to California - I'd have 6 except I couldn't get the bonorum into Velocity's 25% promo by 30/11/08. Should I complain

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I think also there has been speculation about just what an MR point is worth and if memory serves me correctly, that value is almost miniscule.

I am not sure what you mean by miniscule. I mean why would SQ or QFF give away a flight for miniscule return?

It is also my understanding that selling of FF points to various credit card companies is very profitbale for the airlins and is one reason why this area has been booming.

My understanding it is in the ballpark of 1 cent-ish per point.

So say 140,000 points gets a Oneworld RTW ticket. If it costs 1 cent per point...QF would get $1400 to provide a $3000 ticket.

Many on this thread would be expexting several hundred thousand points...and a number have flagged a lot more. Lets face it, 200 transcations is pretty easy to rack up over 100 days.

200,000 cents = $2000
500,000 cents = $5000

Now careful redeeming can get the person a lot more value than this..say 2 to 4 ents per point.

So say a 1000 people get $2000 each = $2 million
10,000 people = $20 million
100,000 people = $200 million.

Amex are up fora large liabiltiy...and maybe a huge liability. This is why now that the penny has dropped with them that they are pushing back hard and are stalling even though it means that hey have breached their own T&C.

 

[vet]

There's some aiming for 1.25m points.

There's a case in the Vic Supreme Court that hints at what a point is worth - Ansett & Diners are still going hammer and tongs.

This manual process must take forever - When Amex was settling its dispute, I wanted to know the actual amount of points I was receiving. I thought she could push a button for the answer - but no. She actually counted the transactions from her screen. One by one - all 20 per page. Now that really is a manual process that'll take time. And they don't just look at each page of 20 txs and then deduct the ineligible transactions such as payments.

 

[serfty]

I Look for 1¾¢ per MR point...

They could employ bravoecho1's method as noted here:

• The Australian Frequent Flyer Online Community - View Single Post - 10,000 bonus points per 20 transactions

(Note you have to know how many 'ineligible' transaction you have. e.g. O/S transaction or account payments).

 

[js]

There's some aiming for 1.25m points.

I was wondering if someone would be doing so..

An interesting target appeared to be Pudding Guy's 1.253m points, although it seems very unlikely anyone in this promo would be able to have such "efficiency" of point earning due to the abuse clause (in terms of points earned per $ spent).

Does seem possible that someone will exceed that overall earn though, from what you say.

 

[vet]

I prefer certainty and wouldn't push things too far in the hope of getting 10-12 o/seas economy flights (at around 100k per flight) - litigating costs real money - unless really certain of a win, an order for costs, and a 'from left wing' action for real money.

I think some now getting up to 500k of bonuses were lucky to have circumstances that were different in the t&cs applicable to them, facts, issues, contentions, evidence and evidentiary burdens. Others might push too hard and get nothing, or win the jackpot. I'd rather own a pokie machine than play it.

 

[ColinP]

I think some now getting up to 500k of bonuses were lucky to have circumstances that were different in the t&cs applicable to them, facts, issues, contentions, evidence and evidentiary burdens. Others might push too hard and get nothing, or win the jackpot. I'd rather own a pokie machine than play it.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "facts, issues, contentions, evidence and evidentiary burdens."

What I do know is Amex promoted "everyday spending". For most of us who joined around Sep 17-19 the promo runs for 104-106 days.
No one can argue that 5, 6 or even 8 transactions per day for "everyday purchases" is excessive .

For those on the 5T/5k promo, 5 - 8 transactions per day means in excess of 500,000 - 800,000 points. I've just looked back at my pre-promo Amex statements and my "normal" TXs were about 2-3 per day. My transactions have increased during the promo to just over 5 per day.

No reasonable person can consider that "pushing too hard" yet I stand to earn over 500,000 points. That's a lot of "bonii" but Amex made the rules and Amex encouraged us to spend.
If I'd shown more enthusiasm, I could have legitimately (no bill splitting or 10c purchases) easily earned 1M points and I'm sure lots of people have.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

No reasonable person can consider that "pushing too hard" yet I stand to earn over 500,000 points. That's a lot of "bonii" but Amex made the rules and Amex encouraged us to spend.
If I'd shown more enthusiasm, I could have legitimately (no bill splitting or 10c purchases) easily earned 1M points and I'm sure lots of people have.

Exactly right.

Amex made the rules.

However Amex cutting to the chase clearly badly stuffed up in:
*how generous the bonus was (ie the size)
*letting extra non-targeted people in
*having compared to all it's previous promos, and promos since a lightweight set of T&C (since partially addressed with amendments.
* having it with no limits (both in terms of minimum spend to qualify as a tx and/or some form of maximum tx....though if the bonus rate had been say 10/100 points per tx a max may not have been necessary).
*allowing people to register for all 3 bonuses.

But be that as it may...Amex made the rules...and then let the promo still run.

Many if not all of us have made spending decisions based on those rules.

Amex therefore needs to honour those rules (just as we the particpating Cardmembers do)...and the deal it made with us the registered cardmembers.

Presently Amex is stalling in breach of its own T&C. It is not playing by it's own rules.

It is also suspending some such as I without reason. Just by accusation. It unfairly wants us to justify "unusual" spend without having the deceny to actual state which tx it believes may be "unusua;".
I do not have any problem with them querying spend that it believes may not be genuine. That is reasonable and fair enough. But to not actually specify the tx concerned is unethical.

 

[snufl]

I do not have any problem with them querying spend that it believes may not be genuine. That is reasonable and fair enough. But to not actually specify the tx concerned is unethical.

I agree. We were getting 5K per 10T since the beginning of November but this has now suddenly stopped. After getting the you were not invited letter and then the apology, I'm hoping we have not now been put on the please explain list.

Looking through Decembers transactions I can't see anything different from November except a higher number of transactions. So if asked to explain anything "unusual" I'll have a heck of a time finding what they are talking about. We are not mind readers.

 

[glass]

Yeh well, who knows how long it'll take for it to sort out?
every day a new letter or apology

 

[pomjim]

Going by the constant whinging, there must be a hell of a lot of Poms on this board!

 

[dajop]

I haven't been following this thread, and I'm not going to start (4,078 posts ..... just a few too many :!

But I thought I'd share my experiences:

1) My partner & both received the 10K/20T promo postcards on same day. Both signed up within a day or two of the postcard.
2) My partner has had Sep and Oct bonuses posted 10k/20T & 30k/60T respectively
3) I have been struggling with the promo - have only spent about 4 weeks in Australia during the promo period, so haven't had a lot of chance to do significant no of transactions, but Xmas is changing that. However, haven't had my Oct points post yet it's been some 7 weeks now, and indeed it has been about 2-3weeks since my partner's Oct points all posted. Cause for concern or should I be patient? Obviously no way I could be even vaguely considered to abuse the promo, at 20T & 20T for Oct/Nov respectively!

 

[lovetravellingoz]

For those on the 5T/5k promo, 5 - 8 transactions per day means in excess of 500,000 - 800,000 points. I've just looked back at my pre-promo Amex statements and my "normal" TXs were about 2-3 per day. My transactions have increased during the promo to just over 5 per day.

.

Indeed..and the latest ad from Amex features buying a single donut!!! Hardly an expensive item.

The ad extolls one to use your card more at the large number of places that now accept Amex...

I mean 5-8 tx per day is not that much if one does as Amex has solicited...to switch your spend from cash to Amex.

So buy your morning paper..and maybe a coffee to sit why you read it.
Duck up and buy a loaf of bread for the kids lunches...

Morning Tea at the Office..

Lunch

Then something for Dinner on the way home.

That is 5 or more tx per day without even trying...and on top of which you have all your normal bills and background tx...let alone the extra Christmas Shopping that one does at this time of year.


So yes my 200tx in the example was very conservative.

500 tx would be easy for most to get.
1000 tx also without too much of a stretch...just by shopping more and abandoning cash and VISA....and in choosing businesses which take Amex.


But yet it is pretty clear that Amex are not awarding points (or at least not all that they are due) to anyone who is doing so...or at least I do not recall reading a post where someone with some a spend rate is beng awarded points as per the T&C.

Maybe they are just stalling till the promo ends hoping that it will slow down cardmembers transaction rates, maybe they are looking to reneg entirely to anyone that has had more than their past normal spend (which defies entirely the whole reason for a promo such as this which was to increase spend..)