2016 US Presidential Election and Fallout

[Skyring]

Problem is only a certain percentage of US citizens voted in the elections. Those most affected by the stupidity and lies of Trump didn't vote. When Trump gets deposed he will be replaced by probably a worse corporate politician.

Trump isn't the problem. The problem is the multitude of gaps in American society. Between rich and poor, black and white, citizens and immigrants. And, the thing Trump actually put his finger on, between America and other nations. China, in particular, is reassuming a place in the world it has not held for centuries.

Sadly for America, someone so bone-headed and oafish in their diplomacy is unlikely to improve the nation's standing in the global society.

 

[serfty]

As an aside in the US at the moment and are noticing that people are grumpy post Trump. The industries that rely on tips seem disinterested in smiling, no one I have met seems interested in chatting and its quite a horrible place to be in frankly. Been here many times and never experienced this.

I was there for 10 days this month and found the opposite.

I did note that politics was rarely discussed and even then short lived.

 

[get me outta here]

Was in NYC for a month till early June, and people just as friendly polite as ever there.

I was there for 10 days this month and found the opposite.

 

[drron]

Trump asking Comey to ease up on Flynn was not improper.He has the authority to direct the FBI to stop the investigation.However if he did so the political cost would be enormous.The impropriety in this case was the leaking of Flynn's name.In fact if anyone in the Government was part of the leak they committed an offence.There is a strong suspicion it was Susan Rice who asked for his name to be unmasked-
Susan Rice’s Unmasking -- Intelligence Agencies Alone Can Make That Call | National Review

There is also a suspicion that the Russians may have been trying to undermine both candidates in the election to sow more distrust in the USA around the world-
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-russia-story-starts-making-000600215.html

Well known that the organisation that produced the dossier on the Trump Russia connection is well connected to the DNC and Hiliary Clinton.Could it be the Russians outsmarted them knowing the DNC would start throwing the mud at Trump?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulro...s-russiagate-really-hillarygate/#23501ddc5cf6

 

[casanovawa]

I guess you see what you want to see and if you think Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the world you go into full tin foil hat, doom and gloom...

 

[whatmeworry]

For the first time in 35 years, a majority of Canadians dislike the USA under Trump.

WASHINGTON—A deep national revulsion toward President Donald Trump has sent Canadians’ opinions of the United States plummeting to a level of antipathy never before seen in the 35 years a pollster has been asking.
A major Pew Research survey released on Monday found that just 43 per cent of Canadians hold a favourable view of the U.S., with 51 per cent holding an unfavourable view.
That is a steep decline since last year, the final year of Democrat Barack Obama’s presidency, when Pew found 65 per cent of Canadians favourably disposed to the U.S. And it is lower than even the low point of the unpopular presidency of Republican George W. Bush, when 55 per cent of Canadians were favourable.

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/...irst-time-in-35-years-likely-much-longer.html

 

[hossein_au]

Trump asking Comey to ease up on Flynn was not improper.He has the authority to direct the FBI to stop the investigation.However if he did so the political cost would be enormous.The impropriety in this case was the leaking of Flynn's name.In fact if anyone in the Government was part of the leak they committed an offence.There is a strong suspicion it was Susan Rice who asked for his name to be unmasked

This is way too funny... blaming the leak(er) rather than the act... imagine your girlfriend finding out you've been cheating and your (only) defence is 'the bloody cleaning lady... only if she kept her mouth shut!'. And you are upset your girlfriend does not buy that (pathetic) excuse??!!

As funny as this is, it is sad, and scary, to see how some even well-educated people fall for this cough.

 

[hossein_au]

I guess you see what you want to see and if you think Trump is the worst thing to ever happen to the world you go into full tin foil hat, doom and gloom...

I don't have any context for your remark as you had not quoted previous dialogue, but I say this: Trump is not the worst thing to ever happen, far from it indeed. Trump's rise is a mere artefact (and a backlash) of a system that has failed the society.

My main worry is whether we can fix the educational system that has produced our decision makers on the one hand and masses of people who vote for them on the other; voting for a billionaire surrounded by billionaires in the hope they will fix the system that made them billionaires takes a special kind of stupid!!

 

[drron]

This is way too funny... blaming the leak(er) rather than the act... imagine your girlfriend finding out you've been cheating and your (only) defence is 'the bloody cleaning lady... only if she kept her mouth shut!'. And you are upset your girlfriend does not buy that (pathetic) excuse??!!

As funny as this is, it is sad, and scary, to see how some even well-educated people fall for this cough.

You obviously don't read the links.Once more the president is allowed to direct the FBI to start or end an investigation therefore it is not improper or illegal for him to make a suggestion to end an investigation.So there is only one improper and/or illegal act here and it is the leaking of Flynn's name.It is indeed sad and scary that some well educated people cant understand simple facts.

 

[JohnK]

I was there for 10 days this month and found the opposite.

I did note that politics was rarely discussed and even then short lived.

There is nothing to be gained discussing politics unless of course you can influence change yourself. Everyone has their own point of view. Some more radical than others.

 

[hossein_au]

You obviously don't read the links.Once more the president is allowed to direct the FBI to start or end an investigation therefore it is not improper or illegal for him to make a suggestion to end an investigation.So there is only one improper and/or illegal act here and it is the leaking of Flynn's name.It is indeed sad and scary that some well educated people cant understand simple facts.

With due respect, but it seems you are dead set on seeing the world from your own point of view and do not wish to engage in a constructive discussion. One last time, president is indeed allowed to appoint and/or fire any civil servant including director of FBI; s/he is also allowed to direct start or end of any investigation.

That is NOT the issue here. I am NOT arguing s/he was not allowed to do that. What I AM arguing is when a president directs ending an investigation into him or people close to him, it is NOT quite kosher; at the very least there is conflict of interest. Whether this constitutes obstruction of justice is yet to be determined, but at this stage it looks like there is too much smoke not there to be fire.

Also, president is indeed allowed to declassify any document s/he sees fit. I do not see him telling things to Russians as divulging classified information, because he may have decided to declassify them right before releasing the information. But when the act of declassifying information cannot possibly be justified, questions need to be asked. This is in contrast to Hillary's having classified emails on an unclassified server. I don't know the exact details, but I doubt she had the authority to declassify the emails while storing them on an unclassified server, and therefore that case was very different to the case of the president telling Russians. I reckon if it was anyone else, charges would have been levelled against that person.

That is all I am going to say publicly about these at this stage, as I believe we should let the proper investigation and justice system run their course.

 

[I love to travel]

Was in NYC for a month till early June, and people just as friendly polite as ever there.

Been in NYC for the past few days and agree its the same nice and polite people. A marked difference to the regional areas I was in

 

[whatmeworry]

Moves afoot to impeach Trump.

Twenty-five Democratic lawmakers now back a bill that would give them a path to impeach US President Donald Trump, Axios reported.
The bill would create an Oversight Commission on Presidential Capacity, and it appears to be based on a loophole in the 25th Amendment which allows for the president to be removed from office if the Vice President and either a majority of Trump’s cabinet or a majority of Congress sign off on it.
The specific language of the relevant section of the amendment reads:

“Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.”
​

John D. Feerick, former dean of Fordham Law School, is one of the chief architects of the 25th Amendment who shepherded it through Congress in the early 1960s.
He told Business Insider in an earlier interview that the senators who signed the provision into law specified that declaring the president unfit must rely on “reliable facts regarding the president’s physical or mental faculties,” not personal prejudice.
“If you read the debates, it’s also clear that policy and political differences are not included, unpopularity is not included, poor judgment, incompetence, laziness, or impeachable conduct — none of that, you’ll find in the debates in the congressional record, is intended to be covered by Section IV,” Feerick said.

Read more at https://www.businessinsider.com/hou...oe-mika-brzezinski-2017-7#zTJbuQgZSrGijl2O.99

 

[Denali]

Moves afoot to impeach Trump.

My birthday is August 10th, in case you were wondering what I would like....

 

[dajop]

Moves afoot to impeach Trump.

Way to go. Not. As an outside observer this would seem to play to the view that the "establishment" is still in control. Playing right into the hands of Trump's support base. Don't know why they're so obsessed with getting rid of him. Just let him dig his own grave, no need to dig it for him.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Just let him dig his own grave, no need to dig it for him.

The problem is he may well bury all of us in his grave.
Either through nuclear war or global warming.

 

[hossein_au]

Way to go. Not. As an outside observer this would seem to play to the view that the "establishment" is still in control. Playing right into the hands of Trump's support base. Don't know why they're so obsessed with getting rid of him. Just let him dig his own grave, no need to dig it for him.

I am kind of in the same boat... the replacement is not better (in fact, more dangerous) than the culprit. It's the choice between two incompetent candidates all over again... déjà vu...

 

[hossein_au]

The problem is he may well bury all of us in his grave.
Either through nuclear war or global warming.

The potential replacement will not reduce our chances of being buried ;-)

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Snip from an article on ABC News site today:

 

[get me outta here]

Apparently Pence refers to his partner as "mother". That is just plain weird. That, and that he is worried that he would not be able to be alone with other women if required in the job. :shock: Perhaps he just needs to think of that half of the popn as 'mother'.