2024 F1 Thread

[Flashback]

When are RBR going to get jacked off with PER? LEC started in 10th, PER in 7th and LEC glided past....... but struggled to much more and PER couldn't even do anything with that.

 

[DejaBrew]

When are RBR going to get jacked off with PER? LEC started in 10th, PER in 7th and LEC glided past....... but struggled to much more and PER couldn't even do anything with that.

I like PER, but sadly it does seem like his best performances come when he’s in need of a new contract. Right now, I think the Constructors’ Championship is wide open given RBR are fighting with one arm tied behind their back, whereas McLaren, Ferrari and even Mercedes are starting to come good. Max may well run away with the Drivers’ title, but it’s a flip of the coin for the Championship that pays the bills.

 

[JessicaTam]

I wonder if RBR's new contract with PER comes with a cooling off period?

 

[DejaBrew]

I wonder if RBR's new contract with PER comes with a cooling off period?

During the Canadian GP weekend, Horner went into some more detail about the contract that was offered to Perez, which suggests that the Mexican driver sticking with Red Bull for 2026 and the new power unit regulations is not guaranteed -:

"Well, 1+1=2, so it's a two-year contract. As with any contract, there is all kinds of things in it, but that is, of course, between the driver and the team."

Reading between the lines, there's no guarantee he has a drive for '26 and I wouldn't be surprised if there are also clauses in the contract that could enable RBR to execute a change of driver during the '25 season. Whatever the fine print is, you can be guaranteed that Checo is not the one holding all the cards (or potentially any of the cards)

 

[moa999]

RBR contracts have always been group contracts, but equally don't think Dan or Yuki would be doing much better in the better machinery.

 

[DejaBrew]

RBR contracts have always been team contracts, but equally don't think Dan or Yuki would be doing much better in the better machinery.

I actually wonder about that specific to Dan. Clearly he hasn't set the world on fire this season, but the fact remains that it was his performance in the testing the RB19 that convinced Marko/Horner to stick Dan back in the Alpha Tauri / VCARB. This year's VCARB01 is definitely nowhere near as good as the RB20, so it's hard to say that Dan wouldn't do any better with different machinery. Same could be said for Yuki of course, but there's no recent evidence of his work in an RB19 (or one of its recent predecessors).

 

[jastel]

PER has valuable sponsorship $$$ from Carlos Slim's Mexican phone company, also Mexico is a major market and the sport needs a Mexican driver.
PER also is NO THREAT to Max, like Barrichello and Schumacher. He knows to come second. They dont want a Rosberg/Hamilton war between drivers. The problem is he cant even get to second...thus costing RB in the Constructors Championship.

Ferrari might have this driver war problem next year.

TSU is Hondas pet, like STR he is set for life.

VER salary is $55M, PER is $15M - not a lot left for a good 2nd driver. They are probably better off paying RIC or LAW or TSU a lot less $$$ for PER main Red Bull seat and spending some $$$ on the car development.

 

[MARTINE]

Wow
What an ending!!
Another podium for Oscar and well done George. Even Daniel got in top 10!

 

[DejaBrew]

Agreed @MARTINE - one of the more exciting races of the year.

Such a shame to have the race decided that way, but it had definitely been brewing for a while there. Definitely shades of VER vs HAM back in '21. Max is undoubtedly one of the best drivers out there, but today's race suggests that the dominance of the RB17/18/19 (and to a lesser extend this year, the RB20) has really flattered him in terms of being able to perform without the pressure of close quarters racing.

What could have been for Oscar were it not for his deleted lap in Quali? Great drive from Daniel today with an unorthodox strategy (i.e. the seemingly very early pit stop). On a track like the Red Bull Ring, the smallest of errors will punish your lap times and Dan seemingly had the measure of Yuki in both Quali and race trim. Who knows whether performances like this will be enough to salvage his position in the team, but it certainly won't harm his chances.

 

[MARTINE]

Agreed @MARTINE - one of the more exciting races of the year.

Such a shame to have the race decided that way, but it had definitely been brewing for a while there. Definitely shades of VER vs HAM back in '21. Max is undoubtedly one of the best drivers out there, but today's race suggests that the dominance of the RB17/18/19 (and to a lesser extend this year, the RB20) has really flattered him in terms of being able to perform without the pressure of close quarters racing.

What could have been for Oscar were it not for his deleted lap in Quali? Great drive from Daniel today with an unorthodox strategy (i.e. the seemingly very early pit stop). On a track like the Red Bull Ring, the smallest of errors will punish your lap times and Dan seemingly had the measure of Yuki in both Quali and race trim. Who knows whether performances like this will be enough to salvage his position in the team, but it certainly won't harm his chances.

Its definitely more exciting when someone other than Max and RB predictably take the lead — its so interesting. Piastri is an amazing driving — so young and talented enough to win soon I think

 

[moa999]

Great drive from Daniel today with an unorthodox strategy

Don't think Dan's strategy was that unorthodox. The Haas's ahead of him did almost the same.. more about tyre wear and track gaps on a short track.

Both Max and Lando were pushing the boundaries and you could see that incident coming.

 

[DejaBrew]

Don't think Dan's strategy was that unorthodox. The Haas's ahead of him did almost the same.. more about tyre wear and track gaps on a short track.

Perhaps my phrasing was a tad clumsy. RIC's strategy was clearly mirroring the Haas of MAG with both cars pitting very early (Lap 10). In that respect, it wasn't so unorthodox. However, whilst HUL went on Lap 11 (which wasn't so surprising) and ALO went on Lap 14, nobody else on the Mediums pitted until Lap 19, with PIA being the last to pull the trigger (Lap 25). Obviously there were different strategies at play here, but the fact remains that by pitting on Lap 10, RIC - and MAG, for that matter - was going to suffer more with tyre life later in the race compared to many of the cars around him and in that respect, was not on the "optimum" strategy. Ultimately, RIC made it work in what proved to be a solid performance (and ultimately a good strategy call from the team).

 

[jastel]

RB's slow pitstop was the main reason NOR got close enough.
But if the stewards had given NOR a penalty quicker for too many off track violations, VER could have let him past (maybe) and just stayed within 5 seconds.
Think Brundle said something like "We dont want this decided 2 hours after the race"

Corners like that one are set up for accidents like this. Both guys taking different lines to the same point and both think they are in the right.
It seems TSU comments were right...maybe they should waive his fine...

But yes more interesting for sure.

 

[DejaBrew]

Corners like that one are set up for accidents like this. Both guys taking different lines to the same point and both think they are in the right.

I think Ant Davidson offered a very thorough analysis of the situation and in all cases, VER was pretty much dead to rights. Not that I always agree with Stewards’ decisions, but they do have all the data and telemetry and in this case, they felt VER was in the wrong. NOR was certainly at risk of a penalty for track limits, but it would be interesting to know whether the Stewards were taking some of VER’s late defending into account and using some discretion in application of track limits?

As mentioned earlier, I rate VER as one of the best drivers out there, but he is often guilty of suggesting that when he tries something against another driver, then it’s perfectly fine, but if someone else tries the same thing against him, it’s “ridiculous” or “stupid”. He would earn a lot more respect if he occasionally just owned up to his mistakes rather than blaming everyone else.

In any case, at this rate, the remaining races in this season could get very spicy…

 

[luckypierre]

Who knows whether performances like this will be enough to salvage his position in the team, but it certainly won't harm his chances

Certainly RIC now seems to be in better form than PER. RBR may already regret resigning PER.

 

[eastwest101]

I think Ant Davidson offered a very thorough analysis of the situation and in all cases, VER was pretty much dead to rights. Not that I always agree with Stewards’ decisions, but they do have all the data and telemetry and in this case, they felt VER was in the wrong. NOR was certainly at risk of a penalty for track limits, but it would be interesting to know whether the Stewards were taking some of VER’s late defending into account and using some discretion in application of track limits?

As mentioned earlier, I rate VER as one of the best drivers out there, but he is often guilty of suggesting that when he tries something against another driver, then it’s perfectly fine, but if someone else tries the same thing against him, it’s “ridiculous” or “stupid”. He would earn a lot more respect if he occasionally just owned up to his mistakes rather than blaming everyone else.

In any case, at this rate, the remaining races in this season could get very spicy…

I think we might see more of this in the season, as the Red Bull car does not seem to be as dominant this season (or at least at Austria) as the last few, but this was a matter of time before this happened. I recall the first few seasons of Verstappen moving around under braking and not giving other drivers sufficient space numerous times without being punished, and after a few collisions, it seemed to be that drivers had read the room that the stewards were not going to call out Verstappen on this, and other drivers generally avoided racing in close proximity to Max. Then the Red Bull became the dominant car and people never really got the chance to be racing alongside Max until now, and in this case it was Lando Norris who was going to defend his part of the track and both drivers suffered the consequences. A few more of these and Verstappen might start to learn.

Really nice race by Oscar Piastri, and also more evidence that Ferrari have made a blunder/mistake by letting Sainz go.

 

[prozac]

I think we might see more of this in the season, as the Red Bull car does not seem to be as dominant this season (or at least at Austria) as the last few, but this was a matter of time before this happened. I recall the first few seasons of Verstappen moving around under braking and not giving other drivers sufficient space numerous times without being punished, and after a few collisions, it seemed to be that drivers had read the room that the stewards were not going to call out Verstappen on this, and other drivers generally avoided racing in close proximity to Max. Then the Red Bull became the dominant car and people never really got the chance to be racing alongside Max until now, and in this case it was Lando Norris who was going to defend his part of the track and both drivers suffered the consequences. A few more of these and Verstappen might start to learn.

Really nice race by Oscar Piastri, and also more evidence that Ferrari have made a blunder/mistake by letting Sainz go.

Why I don't like Max from the first seasons. Personally I think cars have become to large for the tracks. Let's go back to the 1960's Brabham and Ferrari size cars.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Not that I always agree with Stewards’ decisions, but they do have all the data and telemetry and in this case, they felt VER was in the wrong. NOR was certainly at risk of a penalty for track limits, but it would be interesting to know whether the Stewards were taking some of VER’s late defending into account and using some discretion in application of track limits?

Norris was complaining about Verstappen changing directions multiple times before the incident. The final (and most obvious) blocking move by Verstappen was what caused it, but they should look at that data to see if there was a pattern of behaviour. I don't think Verstappen's accident was an innocuous as it looked but the result of an intent over a series of laps. ie. premeditated.

But I stick by my thoughts for the better part of the past two decades, since the dominant Schumacher era - F1 drivers seem to expect cars to just move out of the way, especially backmarkers. You can't claim to be #1 driver because you were LET into the front.

 

[jastel]

I agree VER and NOR both needed penalties for moving under brakes and divebombing, the stewards were taking too long and the crash happened before penalties got announced.
Reading some things today Marko said we should have told Max sooner, meaning they were pretty sure NOR was getting a penalty for track limits.

The best way to stop drivers going where they are not meant to, is a wall.

Bit off topic but a recent Indy Car race had a similar corner, for about 5 consecutive restarts cars still collided at this corner. The difference being most drove away after a spin or getting restarted as they are far simpler and tougher cars.

 

[DejaBrew]

Fantastic race today - well worth staying up for that!! As they say, "....just add water."

Strong drive from Oscar - shame about the strategy call for the first stop, but I guess that's racing. Not quite sure what McLaren were doing re: Lando for that final stop (or if it was Lando's call), but I'm sure they'll be regretting that one. Will be interested to hear more about what was happening with Daniel today... seemed to be in no man's land for much of that race.