5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Points)

[lovetravellingoz]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

You know I have a real problem when we do something that someone did not consider it is so easily termed abuse. Ignoring those who created names in fictional names, I just don't see this as abuse. The two main components of this are actively promoted by SQ.

1. Setting up an account with an Australian address. Actively promoted by SQ, as long as address or name is not fake cannot see how this is abuse, if they are then fine.

2. Transferring to VA. Once again, both SQ and VA have been actively promoting this ability. If SQ did not forsee people would actually use the facility they have been promoting this is little less than stupidity on their own behalf, not "abuse". A classic case of using offense as your defense.

Of course would also note that VA aren't losing from this. While they don't want to annoy SQ their own VA member base is very valuable and cant really see them alienating them just to keep in with their partner when its pretty clear their partner themselves stuffed up. I would also not that SQ themselves have a pretty good record of honouring such mistakes.

Agree it is not abuse BUT DEPENDING on what someone has done.

In this case if you have just joined up you and family members and followed ALL the rules then it is all fine. You are just using what the system allows, and what you are permitted to do. The fault lies with SQ who did not envisage what may happen, and that for many it may be more attractive to just use it to secure VA points.

HOWEVER if for example if one has falsified family members, joined up the dog, or I think (??) in VA that they have to be living with you for family pooling and they are not then YES there may have been abuse.

If there is one address with now 17 family members at it, and there actually is not, the VA or SQ could take action. Whether they will bother checking or not will probably depend on how many points SQ has bled. SQ may have cut it off before it has become too painful.

Will at least some people have abused this promo? I would be amazed if it had not been rorted. I was not tempted as both my wife and I have point balances to protect, as well as flight redemptions made but not taken. So I just joined up my two daughters who were not yet SQ Members.

 

[VAG newbie]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

Agree it is not abuse BUT DEPENDING on what someone has done.

In this case if you have just joined up you and family members and followed ALL the rules then it is all fine. You are just using what the system allows, and what you are permitted to do. The fault lies with SQ who did not envisage what may happen, and that for many it may be more attractive to just use it to secure VA points.

HOWEVER if for example if one has falsified family members, joined up the dog, or I think (??) in VA that they have to be living with you for family pooling and they are not then YES there may have been abuse.

If there is one address with now 17 family members at it, and there actually is not, the VA or SQ could take action. Whether they will bother checking or not will probably depend on how many points SQ has bled. SQ may have cut it off before it has become too painful.

Will at least some people have abused this promo? I would be amazed if it had not been rorted. I was not tempted as both my wife and I have point balances to protect, as well as flight redemptions made but not taken. So I just joined up my two daughters who were not yet SQ Members.

Family pooling is restricted to 6 members with maximum of 2 adults. So you can't sign up 17 members.

However, family transfer is not restricted to the same address. So doesn't matter if your whole family lives all over Australia, you can still transfer miles up to 4x/year.

Unfortunately for SQ, VA's definition of eligible family member is too broad. Your father's 6th wife's children from her 3 ex-husbands are all considered your step-siblings and thus all eligible for family transfers. So even that is still within the T&Cs.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

Family pooling is restricted to 6 members with maximum of 2 adults. So you can't sign up 17 members.

However, family transfer is not restricted to the same address. So doesn't matter if your whole family lives all over Australia, you can still transfer miles up to 4x/year.

Unfortunately for SQ, VA's definition of eligible family member is too broad. Your father's 6th wife's children from her 3 ex-husbands are all considered your step-siblings and thus all eligible for family transfers. So even that is still within the T&Cs.

If I wanted to rort:
1/
Yes I could have signed up 17 or more. You just needed to cluster in groups of 6. You might have some other address you could use but probably not 17. Each person that was the head of each family would be the real person that would actually fly. Fido would have to stay home.

2/ VA is not my program....but again if I was rorting I understand it is a minimum of 5000 points fo family transfer and as such where you would earn only 3500 each family transfer would be useless as the dog, cat and the 15 fleas could not earn the extra 1500 odd points by other means that easily. So if I was rorting I would have gone the family pooling route.


If the 17 were all genuine relatives then that would not be rorting in itself if all joined up themselves. However I reckon a rorter would just make up details rather than use 17 genuine relatives with genuine details. And if one uses genuine people but fakes their details or even joins them without their knowledge, then it would get back to rorting. I do not recall exactly what that permission box was that we ticked...but pretty sure it would be that the individual has read and excepted all.....and for 17 that would not be the case.....

 

[mini2]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

That 17 people scenario is based on what someone had said on OzBargain, I would just take it as a grain of salt.

Meanwhile, I'm hesitant to transfer points from Amex to my VA account not knowing what might happen to it and I've got flights that I'll need to redeem soonish. Might fly QF instead...

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

That 17 people scenario is based on what someone had said on OzBargain, I would just take it as a grain of salt.

I am, or rather I was taking it as a hypothetical. I was just making the point that it would have been easy to rort. But hey, it is easy to shoplift as well.......it does not mean that you should do it just because it is easy to do it.

Meanwhile, I'm hesitant to transfer points from Amex to my VA account not knowing what might happen to it and I've got flights that I'll need to redeem soonish. Might fly QF instead...

If you only joined up yourself and immediate genuine family members who are actually living with you I would not hesitate because if you are audited it will be easy to prove that you are genuine.

I suspect that they will actually do nothing, unless one has gone overboard. I know from personal experience in the Amex Everyday Promo that Amex audited all the big point hauls in that promo, but that if you could justify ones activity was as per T&C that that had to and did honour it even in cases like mine where they suspended me.

 

[VAG newbie]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

That 17 people scenario is based on what someone had said on OzBargain, I would just take it as a grain of salt.

Meanwhile, I'm hesitant to transfer points from Amex to my VA account not knowing what might happen to it and I've got flights that I'll need to redeem soonish. Might fly QF instead...

Despite me feeling pessimistic about it, I really don't think VA or SQ will suspend our account. Like many have said, VA was completely innocent and I bet they had no say in this promotion within SQ. I don't know how many of the VA members were involved, but to "rort" it, many members must have been involved (ie. All the families.) If VA would suspend our account, they might have to suspend a huge percentage of their own members (I suspect it could be over 30%).

This will upset all these people and force them to go with QF. (Eg. In your case, already for the fear of losing VA account have decided to go with QF) The loss they will sustained will be much bigger than the 3704 points, and not to mention the negative publicity. Yes, SQ is their boss, but not the only boss. There are EY and NZ as well, and I don't think they'll be too pleased if they will lose 30% of the market because of SQ's mistake.

But I agree with you, on the side of caution, until some formal statement has come out, probably wise to not redeem flights. (Although I already have an existing redemption that costed me 125k points awaiting to be flown)

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

This has now made me nervous....not that i have done anything wrong re SQ-VA transfers, but that I have a big redemption due to be booked next week with VA SYD_LAX that will clear out my 180,000 va points.

I have now contacted QF re status matching before VA suspends all our accounts.

i would love to stay with VA, but all this unease is making me nervous.

 

[smit0847]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

The only action I think they might take is requiring proof of ID for family transfers of new accounts receiving the SQ points.

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

The only action I think they might take is requiring proof of ID for family transfers of new accounts receiving the SQ points.

oh, thats ok then

 

[VAG newbie]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

The only action I think they might take is requiring proof of ID for family transfers of new accounts receiving the SQ points.

The only family member I used that doesn't have the same surname is my mother-in-law. All others are my immediate family - my wife, kids and parents. I didn't even sign up my sisters. Proof of ID will be very easy to produce. But I think it will be hard to proof family relationship. Wife and kids are easy, but how can I proof my parents are my parents other than we have the same surname? My birth certificate has been archived long time ago and it wasn't even in English...

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

The only family member I used that doesn't have the same surname is my mother-in-law. All others are my immediate family - my wife, kids and parents. I didn't even sign up my sisters. Proof of ID will be very easy to produce. But I think it will be hard to proof family relationship. Wife and kids are easy, but how can I proof my parents are my parents other than we have the same surname? My birth certificate has been archived long time ago and it wasn't even in English...

can you imagine the amount of pdf's va will have to wade thru to check everyones ID.......

 

[VAG newbie]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

can you imagine the amount of pdf's va will have to wade thru to check everyones ID.......

They don't have to see copies of ID. All they need is passport number or driver's license number. Bank uses these to identify our credit score so all they have to do is design a software and request us to update our account by inputting our passport number to ensure the person does exist.

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

They don't have to see copies of ID. All they need is passport number or driver's license number. Bank uses these to identify our credit score so all they have to do is design a software and request us to update our account by inputting our passport number to ensure the person does exist.

that's going to be hard for most kids who haven't traveled overseas thus no passport or drive....I see this going pear shaped very quickly.

 

[baggyred]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

Bugger - tried to sign up to promo but looks like it has expired. I didn't even want to go the velocity transfer - rather just use the points for an award flight with SQ next year

 

[VAG newbie]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

that's going to be hard for most kids who haven't traveled overseas thus no passport or drive....I see this going pear shaped very quickly.

If VA insisted, theoretically they can assume if you are gonna join your kids to KF with the intention of actually using it, you would be planning to fly SQ (which is going overseas) and they should have a passport. If you don't plan to travel overseas (and not planning to fly SQ), then the only reason to join your kids is to rort the system.

But I don't think VA would bother. It's not their problem and why should they go that far? They just need to make sure SQ pay them for all these miles.

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

If VA insisted, theoretically they can assume if you are gonna join your kids to KF with the intention of actually using it, you would be planning to fly SQ (which is going overseas) and they should have a passport. If you don't plan to travel overseas (and not planning to fly SQ), then the only reason to join your kids is to rort the system.

But I don't think VA would bother. It's not their problem and why should they go that far? They just need to make sure SQ pay them for all these miles.

the aim was to get them VA points to use domestically.....but I see where your coming from if I was SQ.....but that doesnt change the fact that enrolling was all above board, and within the T&Cs of both VA and SQ.

I think they really didnt think this one thru did they.

 

[burmans]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

can you imagine the amount of pdf's va will have to wade thru to check everyones ID.......

I really dont think they are going to do this except maybe in the extreme cases!

 

[mini2]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

They probably didn't expect someone that received the link will publish it on OzBargain. As soon as it's on there, it's game over.

 

[burmans]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

If VA insisted, theoretically they can assume if you are gonna join your kids to KF with the intention of actually using it, you would be planning to fly SQ (which is going overseas) and they should have a passport. If you don't plan to travel overseas (and not planning to fly SQ), then the only reason to join your kids is to rort the system.

Points have a lifetime of three years, so all signing up means is that you have an intention to use within that period. If I was planning to travel with my kids and wasnt planning to do it for 2 years, I wouldnt be getting a new passport now!

 

[strtrek]

Re: 5,000 Free KrisFlyer Miles for New Accounts (or 3,703 Velocity Frequent Flyer Poi

They probably didn't expect someone that received the link will publish it on OzBargain. As soon as it's on there, it's game over.

yep

the power of the internet..and the aussie desire for a bargain.