A330 - XFA/B - Refit?

[Bofter]

I did a lot of MEL-PER-MEL trips in 2013 (20+ returns) and didn't get a 737 once. Looking at my 2014 forward bookings however I think I already have 3 737s showing.

 

[Melburnian1]

Bofter, is this because one or more of the XF... are off to MNL or elsewhere for planned maintenance, or would you suggest that it is a sign that VA believes fewer passengers will use the route in 2014?

Or are you travelling at times of the day and week of likely less demand than was the case with your 2013 utilisation?

 

[Bofter]

I can't tell you why as I don't know, but the flights in question are:

Sun 23 Feb VA697
Sun 13 Apr VA691
Sun 22 Jun VA691

The versions of these flights that I flew in 2013 were all A332s. This might have just been luck. They were all also full enough to have more pax than would fit on a 737 including often reasonable loads in business. I realise that loads does not necessarily = profit, but I wouldn't have thought them to be at the quietest times of the week.

 

[markis10]

I can't tell you why as I don't know, but the flights in question are:

Sun 23 Feb VA697
Sun 13 Apr VA691
Sun 22 Jun VA691

The versions of these flights that I flew in 2013 were all A332s. This might have just been luck. They were all also full enough to have more pax than would fit on a 737 including often reasonable loads in business. I realise that loads does not necessarily = profit, but I wouldn't have thought them to be at the quietest times of the week.

On weekends the traffic results in smaller aircraft being used, for both airlines.

 

[mannej]

I did a lot of MEL-PER-MEL trips in 2013 (20+ returns) and didn't get a 737 once. Looking at my 2014 forward bookings however I think I already have 3 737s showing.

Are the 737 bookings on a weekend?

 

[Bofter]

Are the 737 bookings on a weekend?

Yes - none midweek. I had 20 odd Sunday flights in 2013, at the same times (VA691 or 697) all on A332. On a like for like basis I will be going from 0/20 to 3/8 (booked so far) on 737. From memory the 737 Sunday MEL-PER flights in 2013 (scheduled, not that I flew) were generally earlier in the day.

I am not saying that this will make me stop flying Virgin or anything dramatic like that, but it all does factor into my decision as to which airline to pick.

 

[mannej]

Yes - none midweek. I had 20 odd Sunday flights in 2013, at the same times (VA691 or 697) all on A332. On a like for like basis I will be going from 0/20 to 3/8 (booked so far) on 737. From memory the 737 Sunday MEL-PER flights in 2013 (scheduled, not that I flew) were generally earlier in the day.

I am not saying that this will make me stop flying Virgin or anything dramatic like that, but it all does factor into my decision as to which airline to pick.

You will find that both VA and QF use 737's to PER more frequently on a weekend. As others have stated it is to cater for the demand.

 

[drewbles]

I had a 330 flight that was 'cancelled' and replaced with a 737 flight (departing 10 minutes later). A quick call to the contact centre and I was moved to another flight that day on the 330.

The loads that were on the 330 prior to cancellation looked high (and J was 2/3 full) so i'm not sure why they did this (was the weekend before Christmas too!).

When one of them goes for servicing obviously 737's sneak in, but surprising given the time of the year (and the pretty full loadings in both cabins).

 

[eastwest101]

Yes it would be interesting to know what actually happens to real capacity on both QF and VA during the weekends. Its not new - but with the amount of VA 332s and QF A332s and B767s sitting around idle on Sat & Sun I wouldn't be surprised if they parking about 20-25% of their seats on the ground during the weekend, are these aircraft mostly idle (besides some quick and easy maintenence that can be done over 48hrs) over the weekend and not flying to alternative (maybe more leisure type destinations)?

It goes to show that the "capacity wars" some people talk about are pretty meaningless when VA and QF both voluntarily take some or all of their domestic widebody fleet off line for 2 days out of every 7, once you look into it - with yield management seeming creating two similar weekend timetables with reduced capacity and similar equipment and product - the competition its not quite as cut-throat or brutal as some would seem to beleive.

 

[markis10]

Yes it would be interesting to know what actually happens to real capacity on both QF and VA during the weekends. Its not new - but with the amount of VA 332s and QF A332s and B767s sitting around idle on Sat & Sun I wouldn't be surprised if they parking about 20-25% of their seats on the ground during the weekend, are these aircraft mostly idle (besides some quick and easy maintenence that can be done over 48hrs) over the weekend and not flying to alternative (maybe more leisure type destinations)?

It goes to show that the "capacity wars" some people talk about are pretty meaningless when VA and QF both voluntarily take some or all of their domestic widebody fleet off line for 2 days out of every 7, once you look into it - with yield management seeming creating two similar weekend timetables with reduced capacity and similar equipment and product - the competition its not quite as cut-throat or brutal as some would seem to beleive.

The aircraft just sit it out for a day on weekends, you will often see a VA A330 parked at the old ITB in BNE.

 

[drewbles]

Yes it would be interesting to know what actually happens to real capacity on both QF and VA during the weekends. Its not new - but with the amount of VA 332s and QF A332s and B767s sitting around idle on Sat & Sun I wouldn't be surprised if they parking about 20-25% of their seats on the ground during the weekend, are these aircraft mostly idle (besides some quick and easy maintenence that can be done over 48hrs) over the weekend and not flying to alternative (maybe more leisure type destinations)?

It goes to show that the "capacity wars" some people talk about are pretty meaningless when VA and QF both voluntarily take some or all of their domestic widebody fleet off line for 2 days out of every 7, once you look into it - with yield management seeming creating two similar weekend timetables with reduced capacity and similar equipment and product - the competition its not quite as cut-throat or brutal as some would seem to beleive.

I believe VA work their 330 fleet pretty hard. They only have 7 birds, doing PER to MEL, SYD and BNE. That takes up quite a bit of capacity. The odd 737 in there as well to make up for any shortfall.

Their weekend schedule is less, but I don't think they'd have any sitting on the ground idle (I know XFA/B have gone tech numerous times when in PER and there's been a scramble to get people on other flights that are already pretty full on 737's).

QF on the other hand, i'm sure does

 

[markis10]

I believe VA work their 330 fleet pretty hard. They only have 7 birds, doing PER to MEL, SYD and BNE. That takes up quite a bit of capacity. The odd 737 in there as well to make up for any shortfall.

Their weekend schedule is less, but I don't think they'd have any sitting on the ground idle (I know XFA/B have gone tech numerous times when in PER and there's been a scramble to get people on other flights that are already pretty full on 737's).

QF on the other hand, i'm sure does

I have already mentioned you will catch an idle one in BNE on the weekends, ie XFB last Saturday, XFH in MEL on the 7th, XFE on the 14th, XFD on the 21st, XFA also on the 14th.

 

[drewbles]

I have already mentioned you will catch an idle one in BNE on the weekends, ie XFB last Saturday, XFH in MEL on the 7th, XFE on the 14th, XFD on the 21st, XFA also on the 14th.

Curious considering the loads they're getting at this time of the year.

 

[markis10]

Curious considering the loads they're getting at this time of the year.

It's been that way ever since A330s started ex BNE, most of the other birds cycle down to a segment from the normal three over weekends.

 

[drewbles]

It's been that way ever since A330s started ex BNE, most of the other birds cycle down to a segment from the normal three over weekends.

Still interesting. The loads i've been seeing in Y recently suggest the back of the bus is doing OK. Obviously this time of the year is different though. Most my trips to/from PER this year have not been on weekends so i'm not sure about the rest of the year.

 

[JackScottAU]

Could AFFer JackScottAU please confirm which aircraft he had? Was it the dreaded A or B?

We had one of the older planes (not sure which one exactly, didn't get good chance to look at the tail). When we originally booked our seats it showed the seat layout for one of the newer planes, but when I looked again (after Bofter suggested which plane it would be) I looked again and it had gone to the 2-3-2 configuration in business.

To briefly review the flight: flying economy, seats between right aisle and window. The TVs were pretty blurry picture-wise and the sound was choppy (not that I cared, I had my laptop to watch). Chicken-based meal wasn't too bad, but my girlfriend's vegetarian meal was... very average. You can tell these planes have been in use for a while. That said, the flight was smooth, fast and safe... so I can't complain too much!

I got a quick look at the business cabin and it looked very pleasant, better than the 737 business cabin. If the newer A330 planes have an even better business cabin then that's pretty awesome (and I definitely look forward to the trip back, hopefully on one of the new planes)!

 

[Melburnian1]

By the law of averages you "should" be on one of the five newer planes. Let's hope so, enabling you to compare as I and many others have done.

Failing to use higher capacity A330s and substituting 737a on Sunday afternoon is odd, because Sunday arvo is quite busy on a lot of airline routes around Australia. It suits some to be home (or at their work location) by Sunday night, whereas for others they don't trust the airlines to punctually deliver them on a Monday morning to work, or alternatively do not enjoy rising super early for an 0600 or 0630 hours flight.

 

[maninblack]

I got a quick look at the business cabin and it looked very pleasant, better than the 737 business cabin.

Looks can be deceiving. Those old Emirates seats have plenty of legroom but are otherwise disappointing. I can confirm from personal experience that they are narrower than the 737 J seat.

 

[Bofter]

It looks like XFA went to Manila yesterday
VH-XFA

 

[robbie1984]

It looks like XFA went to Manila yesterday
VH-XFA

It's off having a 'C' check for a couple of weeks.