A380 Production Sadness

[Himeno]

I do wish QF gets more due to increased passenger patronage but as it faces lower loads and more competition I think it will join the boring twins only set.

We may well see the remaining 12 orders (and 4 options) QF has for A380s converted to A350s and/or an order for 777Xs, but while CASA maintains their current rules, I don't see QF flying anything other then 747 or A380 on JNB and SCL (or any similar new routes).

 

[jb747]

We may well see the remaining 12 orders (and 4 options) QF has for A380s converted to A350s and/or an order for 777Xs, but while CASA maintains their current rules, I don't see QF flying anything other then 747 or A380 on JNB and SCL (or any similar new routes).

The 350 has sufficiently long ETOPS and range to easily fly any route. I expect that CASA won't do anything until someone in Oz orders them, at which point they'll add the needed rules.

 

[TheBOSman]

The trend is no definitely away from bigger planes, in fact there seems to more and more narrow bodies flying longer and longer (long time presence of 757 not withstanding), for example TATL routes, eg A321 flying CDG-EWR, which about the same distance as SIN-MEL. As an economy passenger, perish the thought!

I'd take an A321 in Y over a 787 in Y. Much better seating layout.

Also, when the world's most slot-constrained airline, BA, orders only 12 of your super jumbo plane, and no 747-8s, despite having a significant fleet of 747-400s flying around that will need replacement, it's a clear sign that the market just isn't there. And it stinks from a personal perspective, as the A380 is my preferred aircraft whenever possible and I've had the good fortune to fly the A380s of 8 of the 13 operators.

 

[jb747]

I'd take an A321 in Y over a 787 in Y. Much better seating layout.

It would seem to me that that is purely operator dependent.

 

[JohnK]

Sadness indeed. We're losing the 747 and now a slowdown of A380.

 

[suze2000]

Won't somebody think of the Y pax?

 

[cambriamarsh]

To be sufficiently efficient, it really needs a 747-800 or 787 level redesign. That will not happen. Simple numbers...the empty 747-400 weighs about 185 tonnes, and carries around 370 people in a reasonable configuration. An empty A380 weighs in at 285 tonnes empty, and carries about an extra 100 people in a similar configuration. Basically its empty weight is far too high for it to ever become 'efficient'. Lose 50 tonnes and it would work...but that's really not something that can be done with the current design. There will be lots of tweaks, but that's all they are.

As much as I like it (the 380), the reality is that the 787 and 350 are the future. I even have my doubts about the 777X.

Thanks JB,

Why is it so much heavier per passenger, they're both 4 engine large jets and I understand the 380 isn't as good a freight carrier.

 

[Quickstatus]

Won't somebody think of the Y pax?

They do indeed but not in the way you would wish. Most of the time - how can we squeeze more into a smaller space and how can we hype/spin it up so they actually think they have more space. Entire departments are catered to this problem.

 

[TheBOSman]

It would seem to me that that is purely operator dependent.

With the exception of JL. They still have the 2-4-2 on their 787. I'd fly them in a heartbeat. Anyone with 3-3-3, I'd take an A321 if it was possible.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Won't somebody think of the Y pax?

There's a reason it's called whY you know.

 

[jb747]

Why is it so much heavier per passenger, they're both 4 engine large jets and I understand the 380 isn't as good a freight carrier.

I'm not an engineer, but my understanding is that as you scale something up, the weight gain is not proportional to the increase in volume. It's worse....

There was to be a freighter version, but AB cancelled it.

 

[moa999]

but while CASA maintains their current rules, I don't see QF flying anything other then 747 or A380 on JNB and SCL (or any similar new routes).

CASA will have to relax the rules.

LA has been flying SCL-AKL-SYD which is essentially the same route as SCL-SYD for well over twelve months using both 788s and 789s

 

[TomVexille]

CASA will have to relax the rules.

LA has been flying SCL-AKL-SYD which is essentially the same route as SCL-SYD for well over twelve months using both 788s and 789s

And will be flying SCL-MEL soon

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A380 loss... meh. I never got 'in' to the plane. It was just like stacking a 332 on top of a 777. Now the 748... that's a sad situation that airlines haven't embraced it.

 

[Berlin]

A380 loss... meh. I never got 'in' to the plane. It was just like stacking a 332 on top of a 777. Now the 748... that's a sad situation that airlines haven't embraced it.

I'm totally the opposite. Always found the 747 an unfinished product that needed some Europeans to finalize as a proper double decker plane But I am aware that many will disagree with me here.

 

[suze2000]

Since almost all of my flying is done in Y, it's of critical importance to me.

And J and F are only profitable if the rest of the plane is filled with Y pax, the whole reason that airlines are trying to squeeze more and more people in Y.

I realise that most of the people here fly J most of the time, but even they must realise Y is inhumane in most narrowbody jets these days.

(to this end, it's long been my position that airline management, and elected politicians should be required to only fly economy. If they were, Y wouldn't look like it does now.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And J and F are only profitable if the rest of the plane is filled with Y pax, the whole reason that airlines are trying to squeeze more and more people in Y.

I'm not actually sure if that's true? There are many configurations that have no economy at all on board, and a whole bunch more where economy is only a tiny section on the plane. Airlines make major profits from the front cabins.

 

[Altair]

CASA will have to relax the rules.

LA has been flying SCL-AKL-SYD which is essentially the same route as SCL-SYD for well over twelve months using both 788s and 789s

I thought CASA in 2007 issued a final ruling on EDTO (ruling NPRM 0608OS) which allowed over 240 minute diversion for all turbine powered (not just twin engine) aircraft if the operator met certain requirements, amending Civil Aviation Orders CAO Part 82.0. Was this not implemented?

 

[Denali]

A380 loss... meh. I never got 'in' to the plane. It was just like stacking a 332 on top of a 777. Now the 748... that's a sad situation that airlines haven't embraced it.

Im one of those that just doesnt like the idea of flying with almost 500 people, and Ive been sitting in J for the past few years so it shouldnt matter. More people at the gate, more luggage ect.

Ive done SQ Y many years ago and that was OK but it was 2-4-2 top deck, one of their firsts 380 I believe as they changed the configuration to all top deck J.

Now a 747 - still havent been in one of these and sad I didnt get to do it.

 

[TomVexille]

I'm not actually sure if that's true? There are many configurations that have no economy at all on board

Off the top of my head I can think of BA, NH, QR and B0. Which is just a few, and they each only have a few aircraft in such a configuration