Abbott in Government

[JohnK]

Your opinion is based on demonstrably wrong information. In fact it is based in a stuff you are just making up. You have claimed that the majority of boat arrivals go back to their country of origin. That is wrong.

Another insult?

And possibly the last....

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

And especially not to forget the massive and distorting tax rort of negative gearing.


Exactly. For the last few decades the tax burden has been moved steadily off the well-off and wealthy, and onto the wage earners.

Oh please turn the record off it's getting boring. The tax burden has not moved off the wealthy in any way. Negative gearing is a legitimate tax deduction the way you talk about it you'd think people were dealing crack cocaine.

Thankfully with Tony at the helm we won't go down the stupid short sighted pathetic looney socialist French path

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/9261905/High-earners-say-au-revoir-to-France.html

 

[Pukka]

Makes no difference to me. I've already concluded your opinion on this is worthless, because you fail to consider the facts. But then that fact less approach to life has given us Abbott in Government.

We are living in the idiocracy.

...............

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The prices of cars in Australia will never fall and it has little to do with FBT.

Tony Abbott made it very clear that Labor's proposal to remove FBT was going to hurt the car industry. Further to this, the salary sacrificing companies were saying new car demand was going to drop 20% and Tony Abbott supported that biased forecast. Now, if demand drops .... then prices (theoretically) should drop especially in the short term if there is surplus vehicle stock. With FBT still in place, over 1M new cars will be sold this new, another record year on top of a record series of years.

I was in Hawaii recently a Porsche 911 is just over $100k in Australia $234k but apparently the waiting list here is now very short wonder why that is ??!!

And a Toyota Corolla in Singapore is the same price as that Porsche 911. Different markets have different factors in play. Happy to discuss those factors but this point, is useless without comparing those factors.

 

[Alanslegal]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yeah well the last time I bought a car I paid $20k luxury car tax thanks to Rudd so TA can't be any worse!!

Rudd wasn't claiming he could keep the costs down, was he? Now Tony on the other hand said yes would. How many times did we hear him say he will reduce the cost of living upon families?

Let's take your $20K LCT ..... assuming you buy the same car, same total cost right now, would you have paid more, less or equal LCT ? Next drink in the F Lounge bet that you won't be paying less LCT, so thus Tony Abbott has no shame/guilt in adopting bad taxes - ones that have cost you $20K.

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Car sales in Australia were running at 5000 units a month over the corresponding month in 2012.then came august the month after the FBT changes and they were down 5000 compared to August 2012.
Yes don't let facts get in the way of a good story-
Car sales August 2013: Winners and losers | CarAdvice

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Your version fails the test.You are the one who preaches about the difference between illegal and unlawful.being legal means it cant be a rort.From the Oxford dictionary-
noun
Australian informal
1 [often with modifier] a fraudulent or dishonest act or practice:a tax rort

So if it were legislated that politicians got a million dollars a year in an expenses account and could spend it on anything at all they wanted, be it visiting hookers or attending weddings, work related or not, you wouldn't call that a rort ?

Tell me what you would call it. Maybe we can agree on some terminology.

By infrastructure bonds I am meaning the investor takes the risk.The government could guarantee a fixed interest so if income falls below forecast they are up for the whole difference.If negative gearing is allowed and no guaranteed income the Government is only on the hook for the tax deduction.
This idea has been floated but I cant immediately remember where.

One of the problems with negative gearing is the tax revenue it foregoes for no good reason.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So you want to abolish negative gearing?

Yes.

That is fine. But at the same time rental income would not be taxable either? Correct?

Sounds like a fair trade to me....

Of course it would still be taxable. And you could deduct any losses on the property against that income.

You just couldn't deduct losses from your property against, say, your salary (like in nearly all of the rest of the world).

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The prices of cars in Australia will never fall and it has little to do with FBT.

Indeed. It's nothing more than car manufacturers screwing Australian buyers. Until Australian buyers stop putting up with it, they won't stop doing it.

One has to have some sort of begrudging respect for companies like BMW, Audi and Mercedes, though - they've managed to convince some Australians their cars are worth a 40%+ discount over the rest of the world "just because".

Yeah well the last time I bought a car I paid $20k luxury car tax thanks to Rudd so TA can't be any worse!!

HTF is Rudd responsible for LCT, which was introduced by Howard ?

I was in Hawaii recently a Porsche 911 is just over $100k in Australia $234k but apparently the waiting list here is now very short wonder why that is ??!!

So long as there's a waiting list, Porsche is doing the right thing.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Oh please turn the record off it's getting boring. The tax burden has not moved off the wealthy in any way.

Yes it as. Enormously. Both in income, but especially in wealth.

The most obvious example is the 50% discount on CGT.

As someone else, said, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Negative gearing is a legitimate tax deduction the way you talk about it you'd think people were dealing crack cocaine.

It's a distorting incentive that drives people into completely unproductive "investment" and costs the country something along the lines of $6 billion every year (and that's before even beginning to estimate the massive negative impacts of our property bubble, and that's before even trying to figure out what the impact will be when it bursts).

(Not that NG is the only thing responsible for our property bubble, but it's certainly a big factor.)

Thankfully with Tony at the helm we won't go down the stupid short sighted pathetic looney socialist French path

Of course not. Tony, like you, is the kind of person happy to turn the screws on normal people while giving the top few percent the country on a silver platter and damn the long-term consequences.

"Open for business", indeed. "to do whatever you want" is the part of the sentence he left out.

 

[Pukka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Yes it as. Enormously. Both in income, but especially in wealth.

The most obvious example is the 50% discount on CGT.

As someone else, said, you are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.


It's a distorting incentive that drives people into completely unproductive "investment" and costs the country something along the lines of $6 billion every year (and that's before even beginning to estimate the massive negative impacts of our property bubble, and that's before even trying to figure out what the impact will be when it bursts).

(Not that NG is the only thing responsible for our property bubble, but it's certainly a big factor.)


Of course not. Tony, like you, is the kind of person happy to turn the screws on normal people while giving the top few percent the country on a silver platter and damn the long-term consequences.

"Open for business", indeed. "to do whatever you want" is the part of the sentence he left out.

So if Tony is only beneficial to the top few percent as you claim how come so many people voted for him??

And I am normal by the way lol

 

[drron]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So if it were legislated that politicians got a million dollars a year in an expenses account and could spend it on anything at all they wanted, be it visiting hookers or attending weddings, work related or not, you wouldn't call that a rort ?

Tell me what you would call it. Maybe we can agree on some terminology.


One of the problems with negative gearing is the tax revenue it foregoes for no good reason.

Oh dear.Caught out using the wrong word so now you have to invent ridiculous scenarios to try and justify your original incorrect usage.I gave you the dictionary version of rort.That is my final answer.
Obviously no point in having a discussion with you either as you believe any one to the right is always wrong even if some of what they are saying is in agreement with what you say.

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Tony Abbott made it very clear that Labor's proposal to remove FBT was going to hurt the car industry. Further to this, the salary sacrificing companies were saying new car demand was going to drop 20% and Tony Abbott supported that biased forecast. Now, if demand drops .... then prices (theoretically) should drop especially in the short term if there is surplus vehicle stock. With FBT still in place, over 1M new cars will be sold this new, another record year on top of a record series of years.

.

New car demand did drop when salary sacrificing to cars was abandoned. The price of cars would not/did not drop. It just meant less cars were purchased. The theoretical price drop with less demand is just that in this case.

When did Labor say they were going to remove FBT? .

I don't have the stats but I'm thinking most negative gearing arrangements utilise deductions against the actual interest cost of the mortgages servicing their investment property (and not other income) given the cost of housing in Australia and the disgusting amounts of taxes, especially in SA for that stamp duty on purchase.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

So if Tony is only beneficial to the top few percent as you claim how come so many people voted for him??

Because BOAT PEOPLE INVASION and CARBON TAX LIE and LABOR BUDGET EMERGENCY.

And I am normal by the way lol

Yesterday you were talking about buying a car with (being generous and taking what I suspect you meant rather than what you actually said) a 20k LCT component. This may come as a surprise to you, but "normal" people can't afford $150k cars.

 

[drsmithy]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Oh dear.Caught out using the wrong word so now you have to invent ridiculous scenarios to try and justify your original incorrect usage.

The usage of 'rort' I am familiar with does not require a law (or even a rule) to be broken.

Like I said, if you have another word you'd prefer, let me know.

I gave you the dictionary version of rort.

Or maybe not:

"work (a system) to obtain the greatest benefit while remaining within the letter of the law."

 

[Pushka]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

deleted - not going to happen

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Of course it would still be taxable. And you could deduct any losses on the property against that income.

You just couldn't deduct losses from your property against, say, your salary (like in nearly all of the rest of the world).

And you would be able to defer losses to future years where the property is making profit?

Negative gearing is much simpler. Get it out of the way now and not worry about it later.

 

[medhead]

Another insult?

And possibly the last....

An insult? Now you're making stuff up. I'm just calling it as I see it. If you don't like it you can always try using facts to form your opinions instead.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Is it 9% or 5%? Seems you have trouble with numbers in the same way you have trouble reading. Those who think they pay too much should F off not all. Who knew reading comprehension was so difficult?

Hmmm. In Australia ~9% of ~13m taxpayers are ~5% of the total citizens.

 

[medhead]

I believe that parachuting is stupid. It is an opinion. It is not based on any fact. In fact I do not need to have any facts what so ever to have an opinion that parachuting is stupid.

You must love insulting people. I can see why some of the others in these threads choose not to debate with you anymore.

The fact remains that you other opinion is wrong because it is not supported by the facts. This is what you constantly fail to understand. You are entitled to have an opinion but an opinion that ignores the facts of the matter is worthless. You constantly fail to understand that the problem is not having an opinion but that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. As such it is pointless and worthless opinion. I have absolutely no idea why you can't understand the simple concept that having an opinion does not make you correct.

Now your opinion on parachuting might be supported in part by the statistical risk of that activity. However, it would be more correct to say parachuting is dangerous. Then there is the way that you've called people who parachute stupid. That is an insult.

I think you'll find people don't debate me, because they are wrong.