Abbott in Government

[jetlagger]

In my opinion the majority of asylum seekers arriving by boat onto our shores are not "genuine" asylum seekers.

Is that better for you? I dont care about the numbers quoted by the those who process the "genuine" asylum seekers.

I can very clearly see your 'defence mechanisms" in play JohnK.. Much like my family values.. we are all migrants have worked very hard to maintain our values, standards & quality of living.. Just simply don't wish to see it continually eroded by the queue jumpers & fictitious asylum seekers.. Much to the debate of the politically correct & usual Government supported debaters.

 

[medhead]

In my opinion the majority of asylum seekers arriving by boat onto our shores are not "genuine" asylum seekers.

Is that better for you? I dont care about the numbers quoted by the those who process the "genuine" asylum seekers.

Makes no difference to me. I've already concluded your opinion on this is worthless, because you fail to consider the facts. But then that fact less approach to life has given us Abbott in Government.

We are living in the idiocracy.

 

[medhead]

I can very clearly see your 'defence mechanisms" in play JohnK.. Much like my family values.. we are all migrants have worked very hard to maintain our values, standards & quality of living.. Just simply don't wish to see it continually eroded by the queue jumpers & fictitious asylum seekers.. Much to the debate of the politically correct & usual Government supported debaters.

Typical immigrant attitude - shut the door once I'm in. I have no idea why we let any of you lot into this country.

 

[drsmithy]

Sometimes you can sound quite caring and reasonable but the idea that anyone should pay 75% is absolutely ludicrous looney socialism. I don't care if they earn a billion a year they should be allowed to keep the majority. Once the government takes a bigger percentage than you it's time to move countries which is what people do.

Firstly, it would appear the 75% rate isn't going to be implemented.

Secondly, in the postwar period, until the late '70s, when the neoliberals took over the UK and USA and commenced ****ing the world, top tax brackets in that ballpark were commonplace (though kicking in at suitably astronomical income levels). Undoubtedly you will be astounded to know these countries somehow managed to maintain stable, thriving, innovative, entrepreneurial economies, extensive publicly funded infrastructure, strong workers rights, decreasing inequality, increasing class mobility, increasing productivity, increasing living standards and increasing (in real terms) wealth.

Note that many of these things have stagnated, if not reversed over the last ~30 years, and especially over the last 10, in those same countries.

Do you know that the French are responsible for making the house prices in Chelsea & Kensington sky rocket even further because they've decided they don't want to live in France anymore? So instead of getting 50% of a lot they get absolutely sweet FA which is why France is screwed.

No, I don't, because that statement bears no resemblence to reality.

Anyway back to Tony I'm confident that he will make the tough decisions necessary to sort the country out without resorting to jacking up taxes on those that already contribute more than their fair share to society, and while we are on the subject of TA how come when Rudd splashed all those $900 JB Hifi vouchers around like confetti it was called stimulating the economy but if Tony wants to keep the ludicrously named "middle class welfare" that just bribing the electorate.

You can't possibly be serious.

Actually, maybe you are, it wouldn't be that surprising.

Here's a hint: one of them was a once-off expense , the other is a recurring cost.
Here's another: one of them happened in the lead-up to an election, the other didn't.

Now, Labor are just as guilty as the contemporary Liberal party about leaving middle-class welfare in place, but at least Labor at least didn't have the dishonest hypocrisy to fearmonger about a "budget emergency" while promising to hand out more of it. Though neither are as guilty (yet) as Howard and Costello for creating and entrenching it in the first place.

The sheer hypocrisy and double standards on this thread Is breathtaking at times.

Yet much like those claims of "extremism", when prompted you never seem able to actually identify any.

 

[drsmithy]

Equitable distribution of income is from the UN Development Programmes list.
Tax tables are easily searched.

At superficial glance the tax rates of Japan look fairly similar to Australia.

Europe is a big place, with very diverse countries. It doesn't seem reasonable to lump them all together. "Socialist" countries like Germany, Finland, Sweden, etc, have better measures of income inequality than Japan.

 

[drsmithy]

I can very clearly see your 'defence mechanisms" in play JohnK.. Much like my family values.. we are all migrants have worked very hard to maintain our values, standards & quality of living.. Just simply don't wish to see it continually eroded by the queue jumpers & fictitious asylum seekers.. Much to the debate of the politically correct & usual Government supported debaters.

Are you seriously trying to argue a handful of refugees are "eroding" your "values, standards & quality of living" ?

 

[JohnK]

Usually Opinion is formed by reviewing facts. One leads from the other. You have made a statement that is wrong and then stated your opinion based on that incorrect fact.

My statement was not wrong. I did not try to correct myself. It was always opinion.

Yet on the other hand you are quoting me numbers and you are blindly stating they are fact. No they are not facts thank you very much.

I wouldn't trust anyone processing refugees as far as I could throw them to provide factual information. From either side of government.

 

[drsmithy]

My statement was not wrong. I did not try to correct myself. It was always opinion.

Yet on the other hand you are quoting me numbers and you are blindly stating they are fact. No they are not facts thank you very much.

I wouldn't trust anyone processing refugees as far as I could throw them to provide factual information. From either side of government.

It blows my mind that, despite the shameless and extensive demonisation of asylum seekers by both major parties, along with most mainstream media, for going on a decade now, there are people out there who think the Government is fudging figures on the low side.

If you (apparently) think the treatment of refugees by the last few Governments is generous, I can't even imagine what you would consider harsh. Sinking their ships before they enter our waters ? Firing squads at dawn for those who make it to shore ?

 

[JohnK]

I can very clearly see your 'defence mechanisms" in play JohnK.. Much like my family values.. we are all migrants have worked very hard to maintain our values, standards & quality of living.. Just simply don't wish to see it continually eroded by the queue jumpers & fictitious asylum seekers.. Much to the debate of the politically correct & usual Government supported debaters.

I have no problems with migrants as long as they go through the right channels not paying money to criminals and trying to sneak their way in the back door and if they get caught then say "we are asylum seekers". Oldest trick in the book.

By the way I do not necessarily agree with the immigration policy or the numbers they are bringing in to the country but I cannot do much about it. This country is way over populated at 23 million. And yes I have worked hard and I do not want my quality of life to drop.

Some people think Australia should have a population of 50 million by 2050. That is a joke and no one should take that seriously.

 

[drsmithy]

I have no problems with migrants as long as they go through the right channels not paying money to criminals and trying to sneak their way in the back door and if they get caught then say "we are asylum seekers". Oldest trick in the book.

No, the oldest trick in the book is to come in on a legitimate visa and then simply not leave when it expires.

That is what, by far, the vast majority of (actual) "illegal immigrants" do. Boat arrivals - "genuine" refugees or otherwise - are a tiny minority in comparison.

 

[medhead]

My statement was not wrong. I did not try to correct myself. It was always opinion.

Your opinion is based on demonstrably wrong information. In fact it is based in a stuff you are just making up. You have claimed that the majority of boat arrivals go back to their country of origin. That is wrong.

Yet on the other hand you are quoting me numbers and you are blindly stating they are fact. No they are not facts thank you very much.

Official counts of people are fact. You can't wish facts away just because they disprove your opinion. Once again your opinion to the contrary is based on nothing.

I wouldn't trust anyone processing refugees as far as I could throw them to provide factual information. From either side of government.

The people processing refugees are from neither political party. Do you understand how Australian/Westminster governments work?

Actually from you subsequent post I doubt you understand the difference between migrants and asylum seekers.

There is no point continue to discuss this with you as you just continually make ludicrous comments completely devoid of any reference to reality.

 

[drron]

At superficial glance the tax rates of Japan look fairly similar to Australia.

Europe is a big place, with very diverse countries. It doesn't seem reasonable to lump them all together. "Socialist" countries like Germany, Finland, Sweden, etc, have better measures of income inequality than Japan.

The Japanese tax rates cut in at higher income levels than Australia.
On the measurement of the top 10% of income earners to the bottom 10% from UN figures-
Japan-4.5x
Germany-6.9x
Finland-5.8x
Sweden-6.2x

And for the top 20% compared to the bottom 20%
Japan-3.4x
Germany-4.3x
Finland-3.8x
Sweden-4.0x

 

[medhead]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I think anyone who believes they are paying more than their fair share of tax and who don't want to pay for a social safety net should F off to the USA and enjoy their low tax rates. But you can't come back to bludge off Australia if you get ill and find yourself bankrupted by medical bills.

 

[knasty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

The top 9% of ~13m taxpayers contribute almost 50% of the net tax contribution. That's 5% of citizens paying for half the population. These people should be thanked...if many of them F off overseas a great number more will have to pick up the slack.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

knasty, where are you getting that figure from?

I looked at the budget website and I managed to find this table:
[TABLE="class: standard"]
[TR]
[TH="class: left"][/TH]
[TH]2012‑13
Estimate at
2013‑14
Budget
$m
[/TH]
[TH]2012‑13
Outcome


$m
[/TH]
[TH]Change on
2013‑14
Budget

$m
[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Individuals' and other withholding taxes
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Gross income tax withholding
[/TH]
[TD]150,300
[/TD]
[TD]149,807
[/TD]
[TD]-493
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Gross other individuals
[/TH]
[TD]33,300
[/TD]
[TD]33,294
[/TD]
[TD]-6
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left indent"]less: Refunds
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]26,750
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]26,801
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]51
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Total individuals' and other withholding tax
[/TH]
[TD]156,850
[/TD]
[TD]156,300
[/TD]
[TD]-550
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Fringe benefits tax
[/TH]
[TD]3,860
[/TD]
[TD]3,922
[/TD]
[TD]62
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Company tax
[/TH]
[TD]66,000
[/TD]
[TD]66,911
[/TD]
[TD]911
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Superannuation funds
[/TH]
[TD]7,680
[/TD]
[TD]7,661
[/TD]
[TD]-19
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Resource rent taxes(a)
[/TH]
[TD]1,710
[/TD]
[TD]1,817
[/TD]
[TD]107
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bold"]
[TH="class: left"]Income taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]236,100
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]236,610
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]510
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Sales taxes
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Goods and services tax
[/TH]
[TD]47,918
[/TD]
[TD]48,596
[/TD]
[TD]678
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Wine equalisation tax
[/TH]
[TD]720
[/TD]
[TD]725
[/TD]
[TD]5
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Luxury car tax
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]430
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]434
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]4
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Total sales taxes
[/TH]
[TD]49,068
[/TD]
[TD]49,756
[/TD]
[TD]688
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Excise duty
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Petrol
[/TH]
[TD]6,000
[/TD]
[TD]5,990
[/TD]
[TD]-10
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Diesel
[/TH]
[TD]8,600
[/TD]
[TD]8,513
[/TD]
[TD]-87
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Beer
[/TH]
[TD]1,950
[/TD]
[TD]1,929
[/TD]
[TD]-21
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Other excisable products(b)
[/TH]
[TD]9,020
[/TD]
[TD]8,980
[/TD]
[TD]-40
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent2"]Of which: Other excisable beverages(c)
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]900
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]901
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Total excise duty receipts
[/TH]
[TD]25,570
[/TD]
[TD]25,412
[/TD]
[TD]-158
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Customs duty
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Textiles, clothing and footwear
[/TH]
[TD]680
[/TD]
[TD]676
[/TD]
[TD]-4
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Passenger motor vehicles
[/TH]
[TD]920
[/TD]
[TD]892
[/TD]
[TD]-28
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Excise-like goods(b)
[/TH]
[TD]5,660
[/TD]
[TD]5,430
[/TD]
[TD]-230
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Other imports
[/TH]
[TD]1,530
[/TD]
[TD]1,499
[/TD]
[TD]-31
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left indent"]less: Refunds and drawbacks
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]330
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]354
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]24
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Total customs duty receipts
[/TH]
[TD]8,460
[/TD]
[TD]8,143
[/TD]
[TD]-317
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Carbon pricing mechanism
[/TH]
[TD]4,160
[/TD]
[TD]3,631
[/TD]
[TD]-530
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Other indirect taxation
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Agricultural levies
[/TH]
[TD]463
[/TD]
[TD]463
[/TD]
[TD]-1
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder indent"]Other taxes
[/TH]
[TD]2,476
[/TD]
[TD]2,412
[/TD]
[TD]-64
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Total other indirect taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]2,939
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]2,875
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]-65
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bold"]
[TH="class: left"]Indirect taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD]90,197
[/TD]
[TD]89,815
[/TD]
[TD]-382
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bold"]
[TH="class: left"]Taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]326,297
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]326,426
[/TD]
[TD="class: bordertopbottom"]129
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Sales of goods and services
[/TH]
[TD]9,043
[/TD]
[TD]9,071
[/TD]
[TD]28
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Interest received
[/TH]
[TD]3,674
[/TD]
[TD]3,561
[/TD]
[TD]-112
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Dividends
[/TH]
[TD]3,186
[/TD]
[TD]3,420
[/TD]
[TD]234
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left noborder"]Other non-taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]8,211
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]8,575
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]364
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: bold"]
[TH="class: left"]Non-taxation receipts
[/TH]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]24,113
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]24,627
[/TD]
[TD="class: borderbottom"]513
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: borderbottom bold"]
[TH="class: left"]Total receipts
[/TH]
[TD]350,410
[/TD]
[TD]351,052
[/TD]
[TD]642
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: left italics"]Memorandum:
[/TH]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: italics"]
[TH="class: left indent"]Medicare levy receipts
[/TH]
[TD]9,720
[/TD]
[TD]9,788
[/TD]
[TD]68
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


So even if I assume that 9% of income tax payers paid half the total amount of personal income tax, this would mean that 9% of people paid $78,150,000,000 toward to the total income for the country. This roughly correlates to 22.25% to the total income for the country. Sure it's still a lot, but no where near half.

 

[knasty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

ATO's "Taxation statistics: 100 people" the data is a couple of years old (2009l but the trend doesn't change that much year to year. This relates to tax paid through income tax returns.

 

[alieninperth]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

It's also probably worth noting that according to ABS data the P90 income level for households was about $1,575 per week in 2011, or just under $82,000pa. Assuming that level of income the following can be found from Where Do My Taxes Go? | The Australian Taxation Expenditure Breakdown:

Based on an income of $82,000, your taxation contribution is[SUP]1[/SUP]: [h=1]$18,290[/h]- Your average (cf. marginal) tax rate is: 22.3%.
- Individuals income taxation constitutes 41.25% of total Government revenue[SUP]2[/SUP].
- Your contribution constitutes 0.000012% of the individual income taxation revenue received.
- Australia would need 8,249,863 tax payers paying the same tax as you to provide the Government with the same amount of revenue.

---

Your Contribution (2011-12) - in $

• Social security and welfare: $6,095
• Generel government services: $4,840
• Health: $2,993
• Education: $1,493
• Defence: $1,064
• Industry and workforce: $742
• Infrastructure, transport and energy: $661
• Community services and culture: $402

 

[alieninperth]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Thanks knasty, good to know. BTW according to ABS the top 4.17% of all taxpayers in the country in 2011/12 earned more that $1,700 per week or $88,400pa.

 

[amaroo]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

Some graphs...

 

[knasty]

Re: Oz Federal Election 2013 - Discussion and Comments

I suspect the real % of people who earn above $88k is vastly higher once you consider those reducing their taxable income legally through income splitting or trusts, and illegally through cash payments and deliberate underreporting (to name a few). Around the world it's the poor old PAYG employee who suffers.