AFR's Joe Aston goes BAM!

[RooFlyer]

Will be interesting to see if it's lawyered such that the assertions would hold up on the weight of them being genuine testimony from sources who have contributed under guarantee of anonymity, or lawyered such that the author can simply claim that he has done nothing more than provide a voice to the "opinions" proffered to him by others (and he makes no claims as to the veracity of these opinions beyond implying that if true, they paint Albo in a poor light)?

I think the way it could go is that the aggrieved party would take the writer to court for defamation and the writer would have to rely on the truth defence & call in his sources if possible or, I think ( not being a lawyer ) the aggrieved party would positively assert in court that no such thing happened and then have to be confident that there is no smoking gun out there

 

[RooFlyer]

I wonder too if solicitation of such gifts represents a taxable fringe benefit and whether tax was paid on it

in the case of board member freebies and upgrades, the company pays the FBT so I imagine the same would be the case here.

 

[jase05]

I do find it strange that Albo would personally contact Joyce to score upgrades. Albo would have had a team of minions as a minister to run around and organise stuff like this

 

[Kerrodt]

The greater? Absolutely not.

You think QF is the only entity in town trying to influence the government? For a start, let’s add other airlines. Other corporations. Other governments. Other government owned corporations.

You don’t go after the corporation, you go after the official. If the influence is unlawful, that official should report it.


There is obviously a failure of judgement, but I’d argue there’s a much larger systemic failure that has a register than nobody reviews or holds MPs to account. It’s very easy to fix, as this is all being done in broad daylight.

I was only making a comparison between Albo and Joyce. Not the wider corporate/government/private sectors etc.

You're right in essence though - every person and their dog who has a vested interest or not is out to influence the government.

 

[kookaburra75]

But that is easy to fix with Department of Finance regulation.

The same one that says APS can’t use personal points to upgrade official travel. (granted, this may not be policed very well).

There's also the Australian Public Service Commission (APSC) which sets the standards for all Federal Public Servants to follow. In response to questions from a journalist with The Mandarin - Upgraded APS snared in Qantas Chairman's Lounge scandal

• “The APSC provides guidance to APS agency heads on their obligations to publicly disclose on agency websites all gifts or benefits accepted, including free or discounted hospitality, valued at over $A100.00 (excluding GST): Guidance for Agency Heads — Gifts and Benefits. The guidance was updated in October 2023 to require agency heads to report invitation-only airline lounge memberships annually.
• “Although not a requirement under the guidance, there is a strong expectation that agency heads will also publish gifts and benefits received by staff in their agency, including SES, that exceed the threshold of $A100.00 (excluding GST).
• The management of gifts and benefits declarations by employees is a matter for individual agencies in the context of broader Public Governance, Performance and Accountability Act 2013 compliance obligations. Agency policies that operate in addition to the commission’s guidance may therefore differ in accordance with the operating context of each agency.”

I think there will more than a few senior bureaucrats that are wishing this noise will go away quickly, as it will start impacting upon their ability to be offered and accept such gift/benefits

 

[RooFlyer]

I just heard the PM on ABC radio noting that Aston hasn’t declared things such as his previous associations with the Liberal party.

I just bought my copy. In the first paragraph of the introduction he says that he was employed in the office of federal Liberal MP Bruce Baird from 2006. The electorate was Cook, beginning right next to Sydney Airport.

in the second paragraph, he says that Baird was known - only half jokingly - as the member for Qantas.

but the book is very much about Qantas and it’s former CEO. The PM story is just a bit of a juicy distraction.

BUT! Although it’s fully footnoted and sourced, there is no bloody index to the book! Should be boycotted on that fact alone.

 

[justinbrett]

I was only making a comparison between Albo and Joyce. Not the wider corporate/government/private sectors etc.

You're right in essence though - every person and their dog who has a vested interest or not is out to influence the government.

But that’s the whole point. Why are you holding the CEO of a company to a higher standard than a member of parliament? Particularly when there could be many CEOs of foreign companies doing the same thing?

The only way this works is to make the federal official responsible. If the CEOs are breaking the law that official reports them and it’s dealt with.

I can tell you this is how it works with foreign intelligence reporting.

 

[Pushka]

I just heard the PM on ABC radio noting that Aston hasn’t declared things such as his previous associations with the Liberal party.

I just bought my copy. In the first paragraph of the introduction he says that he was employed in the office of federal Liberal MP Bruce Baird from 2006. The electorate was Cook, beginning right next to Sydney Airport.

in the second paragraph, he says that Baird was known - only half jokingly - as the member for Qantas.

Unless PM is alleging that the author indulged in some kind of illegal behaviour then his history and associations are irrelevant. Doesn't change the fact there is a potential breach.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

in the case of board member freebies and upgrades, the company pays the FBT so I imagine the same would be the case here.

Yes but the problem is I don’t think Albo was employed by Qantas (or at least as far as I’m aware).

I do find it strange that Albo would personally contact Joyce to score upgrades. Albo would have had a team of minions as a minister to run around and organise stuff like this

Have you ever tried securing an upgrade on a long haul flight? If you want it done right you gotta do it yourself! Especially if one wants to snag the coveted seat 1A.

But that’s the whole point. Why are you holding the CEO of a company to a higher standard than a member of parliament? Particularly when there could be many CEOs of foreign companies doing the same thing?

Executive does have some responsibility to operate ethically as required by law and corporate charter but yes I would concede that the individual being corrupted should be held to a higher standard.

As for foreign CEOs influencing politicians, I frankly cannot think of an example of that, as this would raise national security measures. For instance, if the mayor of the largest city in the United States accepted bribes from a foreign government who is not on the best terms with the U.S., you’d see congressional inquiries that’ll make your head spin. Same thing for the President. If POtUS received a $10 million bribe from the Egyptian government during an election campaign we’d see similar issues.

I can tell you this is how it works with foreign intelligence reporting.

Australia could learn a lot from the U.S. in that regard

 

[justinbrett]

Agreed. And it’s no coincidence that there’s an upcoming election and it’s suddenly the “right” thing for other politicians to call out their peers (or at least those sitting on the opposite side of the House).

I do find it interesting that the Independents and the Greens have been quiet to date (to my knowledge, at least). They’re usually the first to pipe up about both major parties.

Well you could also say the Nationals had some strong links to Rex through John Sharp (former Nat) and given how anti-QF Rex is, that has informed some of the coalitions view, particularly Bridget McKenzie who has taken the lead on criticising QF.

So to say it’s only one side of government or only one airline is ridiculous.

 

[Saab34]

Then we have Rex who named its 737 after a current Transport Minister at the time, VH-MFM, after Michael McCormack. Influence behind closed doors is likely widespread

 

[justinbrett]

As for foreign CEOs influencing politicians, I frankly cannot think of an example of that, as this would raise national security measures.

Of course it happens, it doesn't have to be that blatant. It could be as subtle as flight upgrades in order to secure a capacity increase. Or a mining approval granted. It’s happening, I can guarantee it.

Australia could learn a lot from the U.S. in that regard

The procedures are almost the same as they are set by Five Eyes agreements. We’d lose access to US intelligence if we didn’t meet their standards.

 

[offshore171]

But that’s the whole point. Why are you holding the CEO of a company to a higher standard than a member of parliament?

If the allegations are as described, then from a governance perspective, Joyce should have notified his board of the improper approaches from a sitting transport minister.

 

[CaptJCool]

The fine line between unsolicited gifts reportable on the parliamentary register and solicitation of a private benefit which technically is NOT A GIFT.. a ballsup? Well AFL Grand final tics and wining & dining = reportable

Perhaps to get to the bottom of it one just gotta go to de NACC (er I talk in jest)

 

[justinbrett]

If the allegations are as described, then from a governance perspective, Joyce should have notified his board of the improper approaches from a sitting transport minister.

They’re not necessarily improper from QF’s side. Corporations look after their biggest customers, and the federal government is the largest customer of QF’s.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The fact that civil servants and politicians salaries aren’t competitive to the private sector speaks volumes to the quality of people you’ll get in office.

Only in the sense that your are either dedicated to serving the public (civil servants), or after the power (politicians).

 

[Gold Member]

And the pub test will be next year at election time!

Nothing to do with the Australian Govt (CL) passes the pub test, sniff test or common decency. We deserve much better than this legalised corruption.

 

[Quickstatus]

There are a lot of cupboards with skeletons. It would be naive to say those in power do not have hidden skeletons. Power in whatever form is very corrupting. Hence the high standards we should be demanding of public officials.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Nothing to do with the Australian Govt (CL) passes the pub test, sniff test or common decency. We deserve much better than this legalised corruption.

You are wrong in using the pub test or sniff test as measures for such alleged government impropriety is wrong. A better test IMHO, is the Chairman’s lounge test, which is to say, if you were to discuss this in the chairman’s lounge whilst having a beer with your mates, would you see it as corruption? I certainly wouldn’t!

 

[antycbr]

You are wrong in using the pub test or sniff test as measures for such alleged government impropriety is wrong. A better test IMHO, is the Chairman’s lounge test, which is to say, if you were to discuss this in the chairman’s lounge whilst having a beer with your mates, would you see it as corruption? I certainly wouldn’t!

Especially as your upgrade was sorted a few weeks ago and you’re not hanging around for a space available upgrade. You can relax, and enjoy a Spirit of Australia.