AFR's Joe Aston goes BAM!

[DejaBrew]

Dom J is pretty much the Qantas club Dom Y booze anyway

Yeah, that's true now that I think about it.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I feel like this could be easily solved in the national interest.

All politicians should be banned from flying!

We’d have high speed rail and major highways upgraded in no time.

 

[Danger]

The Qantas Chairman’s Lounge is not one particular lounge, but a network of them in every mainland state capital and in Canberra.

I find this a particularly interesting quote from the book as I'm not aware there's a lounge in Darwin. If Aston gets something so basic wrong, doesn't that at least raise concerns that other parts of his book may be inaccurate?

 

[kpc]

I find this a particularly interesting quote from the book as I'm not aware there's a lounge in Darwin. If Aston gets something so basic wrong, doesn't that at least raise concerns that other parts of his book may be inaccurate?

Is the Northern Territory a State?

 

[DejaBrew]

I find this a particularly interesting quote from the book as I'm not aware there's a lounge in Darwin. If Aston gets something so basic wrong, doesn't that at least raise concerns that other parts of his book may be inaccurate?

Well Darwin would be the capital of a Territory, but to your point, I don’t believe there’s one in Hobart.

 

[Mattg]

Well Darwin would be the capital of a Territory, but to your point, I don’t believe there’s one in Hobart.

Hobart isn't on the mainland.

 

[kpc]

Well Darwin would be the capital of a Territory, but to your point, I don’t believe there’s one in Hobart.

It does say mainland state

 

[DejaBrew]

Hobart isn't on the mainland.

Touché

 

[Danger]

Is the Northern Territory a State?

That's a fair point. I hadn't looked at it like that.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Anyway BOF went on to become Ambassador to India so he didn't fall on his sword completely !

That's one hell of a punishment if you ask me. Being Ambassador to a country not particularly known for corruption is one hell of a fall on the sword. One wonders how he survived in such a hostile environment.

Hobart isn't on the mainland.

Never mind that, Hobart doesn't even have an airport!

 

[Danger]

ahaha. Maybe CL but still Qantas! I doubt there's DOM. Bin 28 instead of koonunga hill.

I've had Veuve in the Canberra lounge in the past.

I'm guessing Alan Joyce is largely pretty happy with where the media is focusing its attention. There's been mention of him, sure, but it's Albanese who's 100% in the firing line.

 

[Pushka]

I find this a particularly interesting quote from the book as I'm not aware there's a lounge in Darwin. If Aston gets something so basic wrong, doesn't that at least raise concerns that other parts of his book may be inaccurate?

The Northern Territory isn't a State. Darwin isn't a capital city.

 

[pauly7]

Well Darwin would be the capital of a Territory, but to your point, I don’t believe there’s one in Hobart.

Sure there is, to access the HBA CL, you walk into the HBA VA Lounge and there is an unmarked door immediately to your left

 

[justinbrett]

The Northern Territory isn't a State. Darwin isn't a capital city.

Darwin is a capital city. Territories can have capitals.

It even has a Lord Mayor.

 

[RooFlyer]

Requested to re-post an earlier one (so a bit out of context now), which was a screen shot of an on-line story in the Oz today, without a link. So linked this time (although the story has changed a bit).

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/breaking-news/mckenzie-dodges-qantas-question-during-clash-over-pm-flight-claims/news-story/93514caa7fa968f1c5b67f0c158ae215

Under the Gillard government’s Standards of Ministerial Ethics, ministers are “required to exercise the functions of their public office unaffected by considerations of personal advantage or disadvantage”.

While they can accept gifts “in accordance with the relevant guidelines,” they must “not seek or encourage any form of gift in their personal capacity”.

It states ministers must also not seek or accept “any kind of benefit or other valuable consideration either for themselves or for others”, and should not come under any obligation to individuals or organisations “to the extent that they may appear to be influenced improperly in the performance of their official duties as minister”.

 

[RooFlyer]

As per many previous posts/media reports on this (including AFR) - all CL can have a +1

According to Aston's book, (Note 9, p 231) MPs elected after 2017 only receive a CL membership for themselves, unless a Minister or 'officeholder'. Prior to that, they received membership for their spouse as well.

Can anyone check that?

Is the scenario of Albo calling AJ and requesting the upgrades a matter of fact and public record, or is it still speculation? The upgrades themselves were supposedly disclosed, but the manner in which said upgrades were obtained seems to be largely unverified at this time.

Sourced to 'Qantas insiders', p 230. Interestingly, it says, in general, whereas other Qantas execs could issue upgrades 'subject to space availability' (after check-in had closed), Alan Joyce alone could issue 'confirmed' upgrades at the time of request.

 

[Seat0B]

Public officials should not even accept "gifts". There should be nothing to declare. The line is already crossed when a declaration is made.

Although it varies a little from Department to Department, within the federal public service, most public servants are allowed to accept a low value gift. The value of ‘low value’ is often $20 or $50, and many have a value of $0.

What is your definition of a public official.

In the federal public service, public official
is now defined by the NACC Act. In NSW, it’s defined by the ICAC Act and includes all public servants, all teachers, police and public hospital employees and all local government employees along with politicians.

So anyone who happens to have a job in the public service has to be a second class citizen when an airline makes an offer of an upgrade even for operational reasons. Some joe blow who works in a private company can say yes but an accountant from the local council going on holiday must demand to sit in Y.

At its simplest, the answer to your question is yes, if it’s above the gift threshold, and the person was travelling on the public purse. However in reality as per your example, a local govt employee taking a personally funded holiday can accept unless they are so senior or are in a role where they may have even a perceived conflict of interest. Additionally, a person on duty, flying paid by the public purse, senior or in a regulatory or compliance role also cannot ask for or invite the gift or benefit. So highly likely the council accountant on a prayer paid holiday flight can do what they like.

It’s not the same when the Minister for Transport asks the CEO of an airline (allegefly) for free upgrades worth $$$ (allegedly). Or when the PM allegedly asks for various benefits for his family members from an airline. This is either an actual or perceived conflict of interest. Conflict of interest is regarded as corrupt behaviour by both NACC and ICAC(NSW). Other states have similar laws and anti-corruption bodies that I am less familiar with.

 

[Seat0B]

Since when was solicitation a crime?

If you’re a public offical (as legislatively defined) in NSW soliciting a benefit has been corrupt behaviour since 1988, and ICAC has powers of referral to courts for criminal offences such as corrupt behaviour in public office. It’s also been a crime to supply bribes or benefits - as plenty of contractors to government have found out the hard way. The NACC only operated since 2023, in my opinion because Commonwealth governments of both sides declined to create a federal anti-corruption body, probably because they feared what might emerge if there was such a body (my opinion only). It took the pressure of the cross benches (Pocock and Lambie spring to mind) to get this through.

 

[Seat0B]

Two nurses working at the local public hospital one on permanent staff, one on contract through an agency. One cant accept, the other can. I don't think so.

At the broadest level, society accepts that different ways of working have different rules. No one says that employee nurse should give up their paid carer leave or long service leave because the agency nurse on shift beside them does not get either.

But in fact, contract employees like agency nurses are usually expected to adhere to the same code of conduct as employees, and the various anti-corruption legislation supports this. And of course, neither of these nurses would need to declare an op up if they were travelling privately. And they could both bid for upgrades because that is a published benefit available to anyone to apply for - in other words its not just a “special” privilege such has been alleged about Mr Albanese.

 

[Seat0B]

And I’m sorry, the argument that 'everyone' does it or it’s done by other Airlines doesn’t excuse what’s been discussed in this thread.

Someone on here has written a whole PhD thesis on this and other explanations of corrupt behaviour (as defined by NSW ICAC) by public officials and suppliers to government, and she agrees with you!