AFR's Joe Aston goes BAM!

[Quickstatus]

If he did not, then he has no case to answer (purely from that perspective)

Unfortunately for Albo, giving him all the benefit of the doubt does not cure the problem. It is not for Albo to say he does not have a case to answer. That judgement can only come from the "pub".

Hmmm i see a hint of guilty until proven innocent in your posts.

You are free co believe whatever you want. However, I am not saying he is guilty, I am saying that he has put himself in a position where his motives can be questioned and this is a problem that is very hard to overcome. There is only one way to be "beyond reproach".

 

[kpc]

Unfortunately for Albo, giving him all the benefit of the doubt does not cure the problem. It is not for Albo to say he does not have a case to answer. That judgement can only come from the "pub".



You are free co believe whatever you want. However, I am not saying he is guilty, I am saying that he has put himself in a position where his motives can be questioned and this is a problem that is very hard to overcome. There is only one way to be "beyond reproach".

And the pub test will be next year at election time!

 

[kamchatsky]

Sky are reporting that Tony Abbot was offered several upgrades around the time QF was seeking financial support (circa 2013) but he declined them all.

I actually sat next to TA on VA Y CBR-SYD in year 2017 after he was ousted as the Prime Minister. I asked him why he was flying VA as I was expecting him to fly QF and bump into J, he said that was BFOD.

 

[Quickstatus]

And the pub test will be next year at election time!

he said that was BFOD.

One of the ways that may help politicians to be beyond reproach is to actually pay them very well. Running the country or representing an electorate should come with much higher remuneration and legislation that prohibits gifts.

 

[RooFlyer]

Albo complains that he has declared everything. The problem is that people do not believe that a 'declaration' removes all hint of impropriety because it simply does not.

on an interview with ABC Radio this morning he did mention being in direct contact with Joyce regarding flights direct to Dubai and Perth to Rome. I think it was a rather qualified answer.

Is the scenario of Albo calling AJ and requesting the upgrades a matter of fact and public record, or is it still speculation?

I believe in the book it is sourced to “Qantas insiders“. I’m going to buy the book this afternoon so will know more then. But as others have mentioned here before, the book would’ve been pretty well lawyered and it will be interesting to see if anyone can test the assertions in the book in court.

 

[justinbrett]

We can easily paint a target on the back of Albo's shirt and fire arrows at him. But to me, the greater villain in all of this is Joyce - the anti-corruption training at QF should have meant that he should never have been doing what he was doing.

The greater? Absolutely not.

You think QF is the only entity in town trying to influence the government? For a start, let’s add other airlines. Other corporations. Other governments. Other government owned corporations.

You don’t go after the corporation, you go after the official. If the influence is unlawful, that official should report it.

Albo complains that he has declared everything. The problem is that people do not believe that a 'declaration' removes all hint of impropriety because it simply does not. It is impossible to say that the "gift" was not an influence even if it did not. Don't cross the line in the first place.

And here is where many people miss the point. It is not enough to say it never crossed my mind, it is not enough to hand on heart say I didn't. The mere hint of improper influence is fatal.

There is obviously a failure of judgement, but I’d argue there’s a much larger systemic failure that has a register than nobody reviews or holds MPs to account. It’s very easy to fix, as this is all being done in broad daylight.

 

[drron]

Ok that is a standard that I'm afraid would not stand a reality test. Two nurses working at the local public hospital one on permanent staff, one on contract through an agency. One cant accept, the other can. I don't think so.

YMMV

Although the nurse hired through an agency is paid by the hospital so still can't accept gifts.
From 2006 until 2022 I worked in public hositals as a locum physician. The jobs were sourced through an agency but I still signed a contract with the hospital so I was also not allowed to accept gifts. and that was the same in the 5 States I worked in.
So I support @Quickstatus .

 

[p--and--t]

Although the nurse hired through an agency is paid by the hospital so still can't accept gifts.
From 2006 until 2022 I worked in public hositals as a locum physician. The jobs were sourced through an agency but I still signed a contract with the hospital so I was also not allowed to accept gifts. and that was the same in the 5 States I worked in.
So I support @Quickstatus .

And you never accepted an airline upgrade either while you were under contract?

 

[Quickstatus]

t’s very easy to fix, as this is all being done in broad daylight.

Agree, but there does not need to be a bureaucracy for this. Just don't accept gifts. It also fixes the problem of forgetting to declare - BoF grange for example.

 

[justinbrett]

Agree, but there does not need to be a bureaucracy for this. Just don't accept gifts. It also fixes the problem of forgetting to declare - BoF grange for example.

But that is easy to fix with Department of Finance regulation.

The same one that says APS can’t use personal points to upgrade official travel. (granted, this may not be policed very well).

 

[RooFlyer]

as this is all being done in broad daylight.

Mostly, but not the alleged solicitation by Albo of upgrades for his family on personal flights made direct to the CEO.

And I’m sorry, the argument that 'everyone' does it or it’s done by other Airlines doesn’t excuse what’s been discussed in this thread.

 

[Quickstatus]

And you never accepted an airline upgrade either while you were under contract?

For me, I never got an OpUp as a locum.
When I was a locum in Brewarrina, i spent some evenings at the only Pub. Several offers to buy me drinks - always politely refused.
Any upgrade if any that i have ever got as a traveller would be through the normal channels as a Frequent Flyer.

 

[Quickstatus]

But that is easy to fix with Department of Finance regulation.

Can be done via regulation or by legislation.

 

[drron]

And you never accepted an airline upgrade either while you were under contract?

I can definitely say never. Because when I finished the work period so did the contract. So my unsolicited upgrades on AA in the earlier years were when I didn't have a work contract.

 

[DejaBrew]

I believe in the book is sourced to “Qantas insiders“. I’m going to buy the book this afternoon so will know more then. But as others have mentioned here before, the book would’ve been pretty well lawyered and it will be interesting to see if anyone can test the assertions in the book in court.

Will be interesting to see if it's lawyered such that the assertions would hold up on the weight of them being genuine testimony from sources who have contributed under guarantee of anonymity, or lawyered such that the author can simply claim that he has done nothing more than provide a voice to the "opinions" proffered to him by others (and he makes no claims as to the veracity of these opinions beyond implying that if true, they paint Albo in a poor light)?

Again to be clear, I'm not seeking to defend or condemn Albo. The truth will eventually come out.

Can be easily denied if that’s the case and the same question put to any minister in the last past X or so years.

That has the potential to become the 47th (or 48th) Parliament of Australia's "Section 44" moment...

 

[Pushka]

The old Donald Trump line of attack.

On a more serious matter.... A lot of members here talk about being downgraded from J to W or Y on flights. Has the reason all along for this, just been Albo on the blower trying to get an upgrade?

In our case, tech crew who needed to travel in our seats.

 

[muppet]

Will be interesting to see if it's lawyered such that the assertions would hold up on the weight of them being genuine testimony from sources who have contributed under guarantee of anonymity, or lawyered such that the author can simply claim that he has done nothing more than provide a voice to the "opinions" proffered to him by others (and he makes no claims as to the veracity of these opinions beyond implying that if true, they paint Albo in a poor light)?

Again to be clear, I'm not seeking to defend or condemn Albo. The truth will eventually come out.


That has the potential to become the 47th (or 48th) Parliament of Australia's "Section 44" moment...

Our defamation laws are absurd and have a reverse burden of proof.

I’d be amazed if a modern writer put anything to paper about someone else without a folder of evidence to back it up.

Agreed, we will find out the truth soon enough.

 

[justinbrett]

Mostly, but not the alleged solicitation by Albo of upgrades for his family on personal flights made direct to the CEO.

And I’m sorry, the argument that 'everyone' does it or it’s done by other Airlines doesn’t excuse what’s been discussed in this thread.

I’m not excusing the behaviour of the MPs. It is being declared. It should have been monitored and actioned on.

Not hard for someone to work out that the Minister of Transport is getting quite a few upgrades. PD said no other minister of transport has accepted an upgrade since him.

It’s about time we start holding our elected officials to account and stop blaming others. If the others are at fault the elected officials should be dealing with it. The fact of the matter is both sides of government have been quite happy with the arrangements.

 

[DejaBrew]

The fact of the matter is both sides of government have been quite happy with the arrangements.

Agreed. And it’s no coincidence that there’s an upcoming election and it’s suddenly the “right” thing for other politicians to call out their peers (or at least those sitting on the opposite side of the House).

I do find it interesting that the Independents and the Greens have been quiet to date (to my knowledge, at least). They’re usually the first to pipe up about both major parties.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Albo complains that he has declared everything. The problem is that people do not believe that a 'declaration' removes all hint of impropriety because it simply does not. It is impossible to say that the "gift" was not an influence even if it did not. Don't cross the line in the first place.

If only life were that simple, “yes your honour, I may have robbed the bank, but I declared that monetary interest in filings”.

And here is where many people miss the point. It is not enough to say it never crossed my mind, it is not enough to hand on heart say I didn't. The mere hint of improper influence is fatal.

I think we’re well past the stage of a hint of impropriety. He begged for an upgrade. Not even I do that flying the hound across the Pacific. Albo is in the pocket of Qantas.

One of the ways that may help politicians to be beyond reproach is to actually pay them very well.

Yes that would be a good solution. The fact that civil servants and politicians salaries aren’t competitive to the private sector speaks volumes to the quality of people you’ll get in office. The U.S. solved this problem by allowing members of Congress to do insider trading. Whether that is a valid solution remains to be seen.

Running the country or representing an electorate should come with much higher remuneration and legislation that prohibits gifts.

But since it’s not then you have only one option for the upcoming election for the seat of Kingford Smith - vote KangarooFlyer88. Only he can bring you access to the chairmen’s lounge when flying at the same time!

A report in The Australian online (my phone, so can’t post link sorry) seems to put the situation in focus.. again it’s not about accepting customary gifts which upgrades might be if everyone gets them, it's the solicitation of same.

I wonder too if solicitation of such gifts represents a taxable fringe benefit and whether tax was paid on it