Air Crash Investigation

[Slats7]

I just watched the episode about the 'Gimli Glider' - man, what a fantastic story. I'm sure many readers here will know it. Running out of fuel in a new 767 because of a wrong conversion to metric measures, then using a glider flying technique to bring the huge aircraft down on an old military runway being used as a drag strip. Just minor injuries on evacuation. Amazing - that they had a co-pilot who was ex-military and knew the disused runway was nearby, and a pilot who flew gliders for recreation.

By the way the series uses the expression 'mayday mayday mayday'. I was under the impression it is 'pan pan pan'.

That was one episode that had a good outcome!

 

[tuapekastar]

I just watched the episode about the 'Gimli Glider' - man, what a fantastic story. I'm sure many readers here will know it. Running out of fuel in a new 767 because of a wrong conversion to metric measures, then using a glider flying technique to bring the huge aircraft down on an old military runway being used as a drag strip. Just minor injuries on evacuation. Amazing - that they had a co-pilot who was ex-military and knew the disused runway was nearby, and a pilot who flew gliders for recreation.

By the way the series uses the expression 'mayday mayday mayday'. I was under the impression it is 'pan pan pan'.

I thought maybe pan pan pan was one level down from a mayday, in terms of seriousness of situation?

I've seen the Gimli glider episode a long time ago, and ISTR they needed to sort of glide in turned a bit sideways, to increase resistance to the air to avoid coming in too fast...does that sound right?

 

[Walter Plinge]

I thought maybe pan pan pan was one level down from a mayday, in terms of seriousness of situation?

I've seen the Gimli glider episode a long time ago, and ISTR they needed to sort of glide in turned a bit sideways, to increase resistance to the air to avoid coming in too fast...does that sound right?

That's right - an unpowered glider technique to lose speed quickly. In the reconstruction it 'crabbed' in sideways -- it appeared to be 45 degrees to the runway -- then straightened up at the last second above the runway. It was terrifying for the passengers on the 'down' side however, as they came in low and fast over a golf course.

I think that's why landing is my least favourite part. Landing in Perth a couple of months back you come in low over an industrial area. I didn't feel comfortable until I could see scrub below - the airport boundary.

 

[Will]

I thought maybe pan pan pan was one level down from a mayday, in terms of seriousness of situation?

Right. No immediate threat to life.

 

[straitman]

By the way the series uses the expression 'mayday mayday mayday'. I was under the impression it is 'pan pan pan'.

Walter Plinge,

I have just been looking through AIP's for the full and technically correct definitions but can not find them at this moment.

Suffice to say Pan is used for an emergency situation and will get the aircraft priority for approach and landing etc. Mayday is the next step up and is used when there is an imminent danger to life.

It is quite possible that an initial call will be a Pan that is later upgraded to a Mayday.

 

[Shooter2712]

I thought maybe pan pan pan was one level down from a mayday, in terms of seriousness of situation?

I've seen the Gimli glider episode a long time ago, and ISTR they needed to sort of glide in turned a bit sideways, to increase resistance to the air to avoid coming in too fast...does that sound right?

Yep one level down, seems to be a mode of declaring an emergency without it being necessarily life or death.

Hard to pick a favourite episode with so many good ones around.

I'd probanly go for the JAL 123 one, for some reason has always fascinated me the most.

 

[harvyk]

Mayday is the correct word to use in this case. It is used in all cases where a lack of immediate action or attention will most likely lead to loss of life. An example would be a boat sinking or an aircraft falling out of the sky (which is what happens when your 767 turns into a glider)


Pan Pan on the other hand is where action is required, but you can take your time (eg we need help, but don't worry we are not going anywhere). An example would be a boat which has run out of fuel, or it's engine broke down. Certainly a problem which would lead to loss of life if not addressed, but you don't need to get out there asap.

 

[Justinf]

I'm a nervous flyer, but I love the show. I will even watch a day before I have to fly. I especially like the ones that have a favourable outcome. Makes you realise how safe the buggers really are.

 

[david870mdg]

Love the following episodes (of so many):
1) St Elmos Fire - 747 dissapears from radar, loses all contact and power.
2) Jamacian??/African Airways attempted hijack - hijakcers insist on flying to Australia with not nearly enough fuel, plane nose dives into ocean/wings clip.
3) Iran Air bombed down by US Navy cruiser in Persian gulf - for personal reasons I can not agree with the findings of this case.
4) South African Airways 747 with smoke in the cabin.
5) Egypt Air plane crash where relief pilot takes throne despite clearly not meant to be flying until a later stage of flight.

Feel free to correct me if wrong but it's a great show.
Just wish there were more episodes.

 

[mannej]

2) Jamacian??/African Airways attempted hijack - hijakcers insist on flying to Australia with not nearly enough fuel, plane nose dives into ocean/wings clip.

That one would be Ethiopian Airlines Flight 961 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[medhead]

2) Jamacian??/African Airways attempted hijack - hijakcers insist on flying to Australia with not nearly enough fuel, plane nose dives into ocean/wings clip.

Attempted hijack or actual hijack?

Just wish there were more episodes.

You wish more people had died a horrible death in a plane crash? :shock:

 

[Flying Fox]

I was told that PAN is one level down from Mayday and stands for Possible Assistance Needed.

 

[david870mdg]

You wish more people had died a horrible death in a plane crash? :shock:

Not at all:evil:.

There are plenty of episodes in which nobody dies.

An incident mid air does not need to result in fatalities for this show to reproduce the incident, uncover an INVESTIGATION into what happened and what went wrong and it makes for good viewing.
A good example would be the recent QF incidents on A330s.

David

 

[mannej]

Or the decompression on the QF744.

There are incidents that have occurred that could be made into shows that show a positive ending to an emergency situation

 

[markis10]

I was told that PAN is one level down from Mayday and stands for Possible Assistance Needed.

A PAN call is designed to indicate there is a situation that required attention however the situation is not yet critical to the flight or endangering life.

In terms of aviation in Australia a PAN call would invoke an alert phase of the search and rescue responses while a Mayday would be an immediate distress phase, the difference being the response by the rescue assets.

 

[medhead]

Not at all:evil:.

There are plenty of episodes in which nobody dies.

An incident mid air does not need to result in fatalities for this show to reproduce the incident, uncover an INVESTIGATION into what happened and what went wrong and it makes for good viewing.
A good example would be the recent QF incidents on A330s.

David

Umm, Yes I understood that that was what you intended with the post. Maybe I should have put in a or a along with the :shock: and

But, (if we are going to get all serious) did you actually read what you wrote? Certainly in could be interpreted in a different way. The fact is the shows are the result of incidents where people are terriffied and die. I've seen no more then 3 episodes where people don't die, but all of the episodes that you love have many people dying. It is a good show, but none of my feelings about it are love, and I don't wish more people to suffer just for my viewing pleasure. I'm happy to learn from the incidents that have happened already, without wanting more.

 

[david870mdg]

But, (if we are going to get all serious) did you actually read what you wrote? Certainly in could be interpreted in a different way. The fact is the shows are the result of incidents where people are terriffied and die. I've seen no more then 3 episodes where people don't die, but all of the episodes that you love have many people dying. It is a good show, but none of my feelings about it are love, and I don't wish more people to suffer just for my viewing pleasure. I'm happy to learn from the incidents that have happened already, without wanting more.

Well just to clarify i am NOT for people dying at all.
I could understand the intepretation from those five episodes I listed which all involved fatalities though .
I just like the investigative side of it. OT I am also a fan of Forensic Investigators a similar reconstruction type crime show for the way they uncover the crimes committed.


Let's just enjoy the show, and of course hope for NO humanitarian casualties or fatalities as a result of aviation incidents

Also, did anyone see the "Miracle on The Hudson" and other few episodes (not ACI) aired on Ch.7 recently? Maybe a rival production co. Thoughts:?:

 

[straitman]

I've seen no more then 3 episodes where people don't die,

I am quite sure that the collective wisdom of this site could list a lot more than three such episodes:!:

I'll start with one about a Super Puma Helicopter struck by lightening that ditched in the North Sea. Then there is the Gimli Glider s a second.

Anyone else:?:

ps I did not include "Miracle on The Hudson" as it was not a ACI story:!:

 

[markis10]

Series 1 Episode 3 Air Tansat 236 (Fuel starvation Azores)
Series 2 Episode 1 BA5390 (Pilot sucked out)
Series 3 Episode 2, European Air Transport A300
Series 3 Episode 4, Fedex 705
Series 3, Episode 7 Bristow 56x Ditching (as noted by Straitman strangely enough)
Series 4 Episode 1 Air France 358
Series 4, Epsiode 2 BA9 (Volcanic Ash flameout)
Series 4, Epsiode 6 China Air 6
Series 5, Episode 6, Gimli Glider

 

[QF WP]

Also, did anyone see the "Miracle on The Hudson" and other few episodes (not ACI) aired on Ch.7 recently? Maybe a rival production co. Thoughts:?:

My wife and I watched it, we were both impressed with the journalistic integrity, as well as the ability of the pilot and the ferries etc, tht picked up all the pax