ALL QF's 330's to get lay flat Business seating - Including Domestic

[samh004]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

I heard that the new seats will be certified for takeoff when reclined.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[anat0l]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

My thought is that the fire is well and truly lit, with their excess capacity to Asia and other competitors with superior products to Asia (CX to HKG, MH to KUL, SQ to SIN.etc) I would have thought the quicker they upgrade their A330's the more full their flights to Asia will be and more people choosing it for flying business (higher yields).

Maybe this is just a way to defer funding closer to the end date of the International turnaround plan?

I'm guessing your second point, with possibility, of course, to defer the implementation further.

It does beg to understand how QF is surviving if people think they are truly being buried by the competition both in capacity and quality of inflight product. Yes QFi has had losses in the previous financial years and is only mainly propped up by the rest of the group, but the way people talk about how bad QFi is compared to the competition in terms of product, you'd think that the losses should be substantially greater?

That, in my opinion, is what would be 'lighting a fire'. If QF is somehow still operating with only the losses it has stated to have incurred, I'd argue they'd be hardly toasted.

However, of course, and once again, the faster (or sooner) they retrofit (or had retrofitted) this product, then the greater chance that all that good stuff etc. etc. But the substantial argument here is that QFi is too late on this, so the implication is that it's better just to give up and not fit the product.

I hope that's the case, and considering their mockups you'd think they were ready, but perhaps it's just that, and there's still a lot of testing and certification?

Did they have mockups? The pictures in the fact sheets are all artist impressions. Just hoping that they will actually turn out like that.

 

[samh004]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

Did they have mockups? The pictures in the fact sheets are all artist impressions. Just hoping that they will actually turn out like that.

That was the word I was looking for, I'll go amend my post now... they may not have even built the seats yet, which would delay their introduction immeasurably I'd imagine, though I very much hope they're further along than an image.

 

[Mr_Orange]

According to the Qantas Source the refurb of the A330s is taking place in BNE and won't be complete until late 2016.....

QANTAS today confirmed that cabin refurbishment work on the A330-200 and A330-300 fleets will be carried out at Brisbane with work scheduled to commence in late 2014 and be completed by late 2016.

.... by which time their competitors will no doubt have a superior J product .

 

[serfty]

...

.... by which time their competitors will no doubt have a superior J product .

Almost all do already internationally.

 

[eastwest101]

Almost all do already internationally.

And the competition will have lots of newer and more efficient aircraft (either on the way or on order) than the QF A330s with the refurbed interiors starting from the 31st Dec 2014.

At least the long lead time will give QF another chance to consider if they do want to offer a PE product on their A330 fleet or not. I assume is still a big no to PE at the moment on A330s for both domestic and international A330s?

 

[Mr_Orange]

Almost all do already internationally.

Point taken! I guess I was implying that the competition would up the ante again.

 

[ReLoad]

According to the Qantas Source the refurb of the A330s is taking place in BNE and won't be complete until late 2016.....

Whilst im very glad QF is doing this, the only down side about this is the sheer length of time it is going to take, its pretty much going to make it hit or miss with a considerable difference in the product until 2016. :/

In terms of the timing, will these refurbs happen at the same time as the heavy maintenance happens on the aircraft?

 

[dk4]

At least the long lead time will give QF another chance to consider if they do want to offer a PE product on their A330 fleet or not. I assume is still a big no to PE at the moment on A330s for both domestic and international A330s?

As the reconfigured A330s will have a common layout, for both domestic and international, it would be hard to market an A330 "domestic" PE seat!

Should they call it "business class", because that is the type of seat that they currently market as "domestic business class" on their A330s. The A330 PE seat, would be similar in style to the new B738 Business Class seat, so that would cause confusion, and perhaps even business customers downgrading to the PE seat for domestic runs? But conversely, if they call an A330 PE seat "business class" for domestic (like they do on the B738s), then what do they call the new lie flat seat, "first class" (but only on domestic)?

Yes, I too think QF's A330s should have a PE seat on them, but they seem to be in-between a rock and a hard place?

 

[mannej]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

Out of interest, how many operators have a PE class as part of a 3 class setup on their 330's?

 

[ReLoad]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

Out of interest, how many operators have a PE class as part of a 3 class setup on their 330's?

CX do, although its not nearly as good as QF's PE.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

Out of interest, how many operators have a PE class as part of a 3 class setup on their 330's?

off the top of my head... virgin Atlantic, Cathay pacific, air France, SAS

 

[ReLoad]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

off the top of my head... virgin Atlantic, Cathay pacific, air France, SAS

The only other ones I can think of are AlItalia, (Phillipine Airlines? not 100% on this or if it was just talk), Air China and from memory I think BMI used to as well (pre absorbtion).

 

[Mr_Orange]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

CX do, although its not nearly as good as QF's PE.

Interesting. I once booked PE with QF but never ended up trying the seats as I got an op-up on the outbound and upgraded myself on the inbound.

I've since flown CX in PE and found it comfortable.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

off the top of my head... virgin Atlantic, Cathay pacific, air France, SAS

AF PE seats were abysmal though IMO. The fixed shell design meant that the headrest did not move backwards, so despite the bench sliding the forward and the back reclining, I ended up with my chin resting on my chest in a very uncomfortable position. I won't touch AF again. Since QF no longer code share with AF, it's unlikely I will either.

I should say this was on a 777, but I'm assuming it is the same seat.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

AF PE seats were abysmal though IMO. The fixed shell design meant that the headrest did not move backwards, so despite the bench sliding the forward and the back reclining, I ended up with my chin resting on my chest in a very uncomfortable position. I won't touch AF again. Since QF no longer code share with AF, it's unlikely I will either.

I should say this was on a 777, but I'm assuming it is the same seat.

quite possibly but the issue is whether or not it is a sustainable business model. given virgin Atlantic offered the cabin quite early I think they probably have a good idea that it is sustainable.

 

[Mr_Orange]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

CX do, although its not nearly as good as QF's PE.

As a follow up, are you able to expand a little on the differences and why QF's offering is superior, please?

Interesting. I once booked PE with QF but never ended up trying the seats as I got an op-up on the outbound and upgraded myself on the inbound.

I've since flown CX in PE and found it comfortable.

 

[ReLoad]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

As a follow up, are you able to expand a little on the differences and why QF's offering is superior, please?

I thought I did a CX Y+ TR but I am stuffed if I can find it. So here is what I remember;

I flew from TPE back to MEL via HKG and sadly it was the same week as the Grand Prix and the CX plane was full of pit crew etc so couldn't get a J seat, but had the first row of PE (bulkhead) from memory it was row 30(?)

I found the seat average in terms of comfort (the QF seat is much more comfortable) There is plenty of legroom in that row so that was a positive score.

What did suck though was the IFE screen which comes out of the seat (only an issue in the first row i know) but you could never watch it at a perfectly straight on angle it basically only tilts! so you end up having your head on a strange angle.

The legrest was ok without being excellent. The seat as a rule however isn't nearly as comfy as QF's whether thats my pear like bodyshape or not im not sure.

The food offerings is where it really falls down, as its basically just a Y meal with no discernible difference. Likewise the amenities are shared with Y pax so there is often a long wait.

Service wise as you are stuck between the two cabins with no crew seats or a place where they "hang out" so the FA's do become ghosts after meals, so if you are a person that likes a walk/stretch, there is nowhere to walk/stretch to!

Anyway the moral of the story is that its still miles better than Y, QF still has the best Y+ product around.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: Airbus A330 flights expected to include the introduction of lie-flat seats in bus

There is plenty of legroom in that row so that was a positive score.

Ah! I got to sample the PE offering for a couple hours on a flight out of HKG and found the first row very comfortable. With three full windows of legroom - I put my cabin bag on the floor and basically had a full flat lower half and pretty comfortable recline. Agree the PTVs were a little temperamental but fully reclined I didn't have a problem.

The main course of the main meal service is from business class, so a slight difference - but not the same as QF.

The A330 didn't have a dedicated WC - but the 747 and 777 do.

 

[ajw373]

And the competition will have lots of newer and more efficient aircraft (either on the way or on order) than the QF A330s with the refurbed interiors starting from the 31st Dec 2014.

At least the long lead time will give QF another chance to consider if they do want to offer a PE product on their A330 fleet or not. I assume is still a big no to PE at the moment on A330s for both domestic and international A330s?

So what is the competition flying exactly?